Phoenix XXXIII: Sound of Silence

[RAgIn]

From said interview:

Bettman:

Hulsizer didn't attend the games because of the media frenzy. Probably had and has other things going on. Don't have the luxury to attend, especially when travelling.

No timeline on deal, but expect to know where franchise is before the schedule is released (June). Setting a dealine right now would serve any useful or constructive purpose.

Threat of lawsuit made the bonds un-saleable. GWI hasn't proved anything and likely won't have to.

COG with Hulsizer trying to find other solutions around GWI. NHL helping. Questions of logistics versus time.

And another key point:

On Goldwater: "If the deal collapses, they may never have to prove they were right, unless somebody sues them for some sort of interference notion. But that's what caused the deal to go sideways. What the City of Glendale has been doing, with our help and with Matt Hulsizer, is trying to figure out another way to do this where it doesn't involve having to sell the bonds in a way that the Goldwater Institute can interfere."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...-remains-committed-to-phoenix/article1992931/

 

[Killion]

One has to wonder as to what kind of set up this meeting will procure? Q&A? Will the media have a say? Should be interesting.

According to Shoalts's article of yest6erday, the COG has the option to have a single reporter or several in attendance basically taking notes. Not acting as a Referee or Moderator. Simply as non-conversant observers. I would assume followed by a Q&A......

Why can anybody ever answer why that is? . All that should matter is, it's an NHL calibre team.

Their thinking solely in terms of marketing with respect to broadcasting & to a slightly lesser extent gates. Obviously the US Open & other major events are rich with television revenues, well beyond the kind of provincial thinking exhibited by the NHL's BOG's. Eyeballs on sets. Philly, Chicago, Detroit, and yes Phoenix are huge media audiences. What astounds is that for local broadcasts, the Coyotes average 8000 homes per game. Thats 3am infomercial territory. I seriously doubt that even with massive NBC promotion audience stats are going to spike in Arizona anytime soon, its going to take at least a half a decade or more, so really, the argument that holding onto Phoenix solely for broadcasting interests is disingenuous at best. Florida (Panthers) is in even worse shape (avgs.3000 households per game).

 

[BrianL*]

If I were advising the CoG, I would have one or two points to make that blow a hole through statements the GWI has made as to the legality of the transaction. I would keep hammering those points and use those little victories to discredit the remainder of the GWI's arguments. I doubt the CoG will be willing or able to do that, however.

And what are these one or two magic bullets that you feel will have Darcy shell shocked and unable to respond?

 

[RAgIn]

I really would like to see GWI answer some substantive questions about why the believe the deal is unconstitutional. They are challenging it, and have the burden of proof. The reason why I would like to see this is because the GWI has, a number of times, stated things that aren't entirely false, but aren't true either (ala the CoG already having the right to charge for parking). I wish the CoG would have legal counsel available to question the GWI on the documents and challenge whether this violates the Turken test, or just doesn't jive with the GWI's view of corporate welfare generally.

If the GWI is able to show this is truly a constitutional issue when put to some kind of fact checking test, then good for them. If the GWI falls back on this is "bad for the taxpayer" then the tide will change against them. It is one thing to enforce the constitution, it is another thing to force your ideology upon the taxpayers. I have some general sense of how my fellow Arizona citizens will look upon the later issue, and there will be a serious backlash if this is what the entire fight turns out to be about.

I guess what I would like to see is just how many bullets in their respective guns the CoG and the GWI have on the merits of the legality of the transaction. My fear is the CoG will play right into the GWI's hands and continue the argument on the "policy" behind doing this deal versus not doing the deal, and never touch on the question of whether the deal is constitutional. Frankly, that should be both the CoG's and GWI's only concern. However, all we have heard is unsupported conclusions going either way.

If I were advising the CoG, I would have one or two points to make that blow a hole through statements the GWI has made as to the legality of the transaction. I would keep hammering those points and use those little victories to discredit the remainder of the GWI's arguments. I doubt the CoG will be willing or able to do that, however.

Great points. I believe Scruggs and Tisdale will be in attendance. Until the GWI releases a presser on the meeting or vice versa, we won't know till the meeting begins. I just don't like the COGs chances though. I'd take Olsen over Scruggs. Perhaps Frisoni will take the reins.

 

[Confucius]

"You would be terribly disappointed at us and the way this league runs if you think we would just back ourselves into a corner and not have some options out there. But Plan B has not been effectuated."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...-remains-committed-to-phoenix/article1992931/

Are we terribly disappointed in the (There is no plan B) city of Glendale?

 

[RAgIn]

Sure. I will be at the game tonight and I would rather he be there than not. I'm sure the players would rather he be there than not. But I don't blame him for not coming. If I were him, I would look at it like the CoG strung me out and I probably would have looked to bail a long time ago. The deal, while tempting, isn't the greatest deal when you start from the assumption that you are buying an entity with a history of losing money.

Perhaps he'll be watching it on TV? That has to mean something. Would you rather they lose tonight at home or at Detroit? (ssuming they lose the series and the team relocate) IMO, I would prefer it being at home. That way the fans can have some sort of closing.

 

[goyotes]

And what are these one or two magic bullets that you feel will have Darcy shell shocked and unable to respond?

Start with the misrepresentation that the the CoG already owns the parking rights. That is pretty easy to demonstrate through the contracts the NHL has a right to assume in the Moyes bankruptcy.

Next, the GWI has not done an economic impact study, but the CoG and the Arizona Republic has. How can the GWI challenge this under a Turken test standard if they have not done any work to evaluate the benefits the CoG will receive? They can poke holes, but what have they done to support their conclusion.

I can think of others but I am going turn my attention to real work.

 

[RAgIn]

One has to wonder as to what kind of set up this meeting will procure? Q&A? Will the media have a say? Should be interesting.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/op...-sit-down-this-must-be-serious-120264899.html

No media?

Resnik twitter:

#GiftClauseSummit: @GoldwaterInst says meeting w Glendale at 3pm Thursday. No media but transcript provided. (Open mtg pledge?) #Coyotes

 

[Confucius]

Great points. I believe Scruggs and Tisdale will be in attendance. Until the GWI release a presser on the meeting or vice versa, we won't know till the meeting begins. I just don't like the COGs chances though. I'd take Olsen over Scruggs. Perhaps Frisoni will take the reins.

I think they're getting James Carville to pinch hit for Scruggs.

 

[Dado]

And what are these one or two magic bullets that you feel will have Darcy shell shocked and unable to respond?

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Scruggs came into the meeting with a crucifix in one hand and a six-shooter loaded with silver bullets in the other.

 

[RAgIn]

According to Shoalts's article of yest6erday, the COG has the option to have a single reporter or several in attendance basically taking notes. Not acting as a Referee or Moderator. Simply as non-conversant observers. I would assume followed by a Q&A......

That would only make too much sense. Not likely, apparently. It's too bad for the fans. Like us.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

I'm aware of that and I also have no doubt that they will come up with some B.S. excuse if anybody questions them on it. But nonetheless, just another double standard worth mentioning.

Not really. That was for an argument in Court. Additionally, what's stopping the NHL from building alternative schedules for multiple possible locations for this team, say Phoenix, Winnipeg and Kansas City?

There was no B.S. Jim Balsillie was not getting a team. The NHL's principal argument was the right to determine who can be a member of the joint venture. The schedule component was simply for additional weight. It's the Court, it's a debate. Each side uses every argument available to them.

I believe Jim Balsillie will never get a team. He made a huge mistake, he trusted Rodier and Rodier's grand strategy. Unfortunately, Richard Rodier was so far out of his league, that if Rodier was a hockey team, the Rodiers would be the worst team in the ECHL.

 

[RAgIn]

Are we terribly disappointed in the (There is no plan B) city of Glendale?

Phoenix fans would be disaspointed, yes. Plan B is Winnipeg. Case closed.

I just can't see them finding other solutions to this idea of skirting the bonds deal and the GWI. Perhaps someone else would like to comment.

 

[Dado]

Why does it matter where your opposition is from? If you're a tennis player from outer Mongolia that made it to the finals of the U S open. Would tennis fans say, Mongolia? Meh, guess I won't be watching the U S open this year.

Yes, absolutely that happens. Ratings for the big tennis tournaments are higher in, say, England, if an English player is progressing well.

I'm not sure I understand why anyone would expect any different.

 

[RAgIn]

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Scruggs came into the meeting with a crucifix in one hand and a six-shooter loaded with silver bullets in the other.

Don't forget the guy with the balloons. (from the Council meetings)

 

[Dado]

Don't forget the guy with the balloons. (from the Council meetings)

That would be Plan B.

 

[Navin RJ]

The only reason COG is now doing the public session is to put blame squarely on Goldwater for losing the team. Scroggs? or whatever her name is, is trying to save face to voters. Its a silly PR move that i hope AZ voters see through. At this point even if they pull off a miracle and come up with the bread and keep them in the dessert they will still be losing money every year? The NHL BOG"s has already said they are tired of this team losing money. The writing is on the wall.

And of course we (peggers) want this team, probably ten time more than we want ATL or the leafs. Because we get our NHL history back as well, with a 15 year hiccup of course. So i feel bad for the real yote fans, that being said i also saw way too many Red Wing fans at the last game? WAY TOO MANY !

 

[BrianL*]

On Goldwater: "... What the City of Glendale has been doing, with our help and with Matt Hulsizer, is trying to figure out another way to do this where it doesn't involve having to sell the bonds in a way that the Goldwater Institute can interfere."

That is some extremely interesting wording, assuming those words were carefully chosen. This would make much more sense to me if the period was after the word bonds.

And with all the focus on bonds and parking, does nobody have a problem with the other part of what I perceive as a subsidization of the purchase? The 97 million dollar arena management fee? Wow, if that's the going rate, I'm regretting now not choosing arena management as my major in university.

 

[Confucius]

Yes, absolutely that happens. Ratings for the big tennis tournaments are higher in, say, England, if an English player is progressing well.

I'm not sure I understand why anyone would expect any different.

That's the home team, now why does it matter who his oppositon is?

 

[Koss]

XXXIV and the beat goes on

 

[Dado]

That's the home team, now why does it matter who his oppositon is?

Perhaps I don't understand your question. How is an English player in the US Open the "home team"?

 

[htpwn]

Not really. That was for an argument in Court. Additionally, what's stopping the NHL from building alternative schedules for multiple possible locations for this team, say Phoenix, Winnipeg and Kansas City?

There was no B.S. Jim Balsillie was not getting a team. The NHL's principal argument was the right to determine who can be a member of the joint venture. The schedule component was simply for additional weight. It's the Court, it's a debate. Each side uses every argument available to them.

I believe Jim Balsillie will never get a team. He made a huge mistake, he trusted Rodier and Rodier's grand strategy. Unfortunately, Richard Rodier was so far out of his league, that if Rodier was a hockey team, the Rodiers would be the worst team in the ECHL.

Irrelevant.

Your putting forward an argument that their words should be more hollow, because they were said in a courtroom instead of another setting.

 

[Jet]

Can't the league be accused of cooking its own goose on this one? It seems to me, in general that the historically lowest-drawing road teams are the ones that have the least amount of visibility on a national scale (I'm basing this mostly on the NBC sked, I don't know if the numbers balance out with Versuseseses coverage). The league and its broadcast partners can't pretend that certain teams don't exist, then complain that nobody wants to see those teams.

The thing that annoys me the most about this statement is that it's the Governors own damned fault that certain teams don't draw as well. If you have true hockey fans and true fans of YOUR TEAM, the opponent does not matter! You are there to see YOUR team.

These clowns are banking on established teams like the Rags, Bruins and Red Wings to float their boat. Work on making YOUR damn team irresistable to the market and it wouldn't matter if the Tuktayuktuk Bears come a callin.

You think anyone in Canada gives a tiny rats ass less if Florida or Columbus come here to play? Bad teams with no appeal. People still sell out these games to see THEIR teams.

God!

 

[RAgIn]

That is some extremely interesting wording, assuming those words were carefully chosen. This would make much more sense to me if the period was after the word bonds.

And with all the focus on bonds and parking, does nobody have a problem with the other part of what I perceive as a subsidization of the purchase? The 97 million dollar arena management fee? Wow, if that's the going rate, I'm regretting now not choosing arena management as my major in university.

It will perhaps be questioned tomorrow. Still a key point point of the GWI.

 

[cheswick]

That is some extremely interesting wording, assuming those words were carefully chosen. This would make much more sense to me if the period was after the word bonds.

The way it's worded makes it sound like they have every intention of selling bonds to finance the deal but are trying to figure out a way to sell them where goldwaters intereference won't make them unsellable.