Phoenix XXXIII: Sound of Silence

[Royale With Cheese]

Thread titles, in keeping with the Simon & Garfunkel theme:

XXXIV: Slip Slidin' Away


XXXIV: Homeward Bound


XXXIV: 50 Ways to Leave Your Hulsizer

 

[Dado]

If you have true hockey fans and true fans of YOUR TEAM, the opponent does not matter!

I don't know any market in any sport where that is true.

ManU will have higher viewership when playing Chelsea or Arsenal or ManCity than when it is playing a smaller, relegation-bound opponent.

Canucks viewership and ticket pricing is hugely dependent on the opponent - you will pay a lot less to see Nashville or Columbus than you will to see Detroit or Chicago.

Red Sox tickets go to insane price levels and viewership through the roof when they're playing the Yankees relative to them playing anyone else.

 

[Confucius]

Yes, absolutely that happens. Ratings for the big tennis tournaments are higher in, say, England, if an English player is progressing well.

I'm not sure I understand why anyone would expect any different.

England following English player, .......... following the home boy.

 

[Confucius]

I don't know any market in any sport where that is true.

ManU will have higher viewership when playing Chelsea or Arsenal or ManCity than when it is playing a smaller, relegation-bound opponent.

Canucks viewership and ticket pricing is hugely dependent on the opponent - you will pay a lot less to see Nashville or Columbus than you will to see Detroit or Chicago.

Red Sox tickets go to insane price levels and viewership through the roof when they're playing the Yankees relative to them playing anyone else.

That's because they're quality teams. If the opposition was good it wouldn't matter where they are from. If the team sucked not too many would care

 

[CGG]

Yes, absolutely that happens. Ratings for the big tennis tournaments are higher in, say, England, if an English player is progressing well.

I'm not sure I understand why anyone would expect any different.

Yes, but since we're talking about Winnipeg as the road team in Philly / NY / Other American Market, the tennis comparison would be:

English dude vs. Mogolian in finals of Wimbledon

compared to

English due vs. Guy from Brazil in finals of Wimbledon

Would fewer folks tune in to see the Mongolian opponent than the Brazillian opponent? Probably not.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I don't know any market in any sport where that is true.

ManU will have higher viewership when playing Chelsea or Arsenal or ManCity than when it is playing a smaller, relegation-bound opponent.

Canucks viewership and ticket pricing is hugely dependent on the opponent - you will pay a lot less to see Nashville or Columbus than you will to see Detroit or Chicago.

Red Sox tickets go to insane price levels and viewership through the roof when they're playing the Yankees relative to them playing anyone else.

Disagree. In Vancouver, ticket prices for games against Nashville, Columbus, even the LA Kings, Anaheim Ducks, San Jose Sharks (solid opponents) are charged as the base rate. Games against the Toronto Maple Leafs, Montreal Canadiens, etc. are charged at premium rates. But it isn't as if games against "undesirable" opponents (for lack of a better term) are charged at a discounted rate.

 

[Dado]

England following English player, .......... following the home boy.

Yeah, but they will follow to a different extent if that homeboy is playing an outer Mongolian vs slaying one of the game's greats.

 

[Dado]

Would fewer folks tune in to see the Mongolian opponent than the Brazillian opponent? Probably not.

More people will tune in if the home boy is playing Nadal or Federer than if he is playing an unknown from Mongolia. It doesn't matter how good the unknown Mongolian is.

Of this I have zero doubt.

 

[CGG]

IMO, it would be in the best interest of the Coyotes and to the deal if the prospective owner would show up to at least one home playoff game. Hope is key.

I can't really blame Hulsizer for not going to the game tonight. The Phoenix economy has been hit hard, and why should we expect him to pay $75 for a playoff ticket when the team has been lousy for 15 years and the arena is so far away from downtown with rush hour traffic? Plus, I hear Hulsizer wants to make sure the team will be in Glendale long term before he's willing to commit to buying a ticket, and he's still upset because Moyes apparently overpaid his own company for chartered flights and office space back when a lousy coach was running the team. Oh yeah, but he's perfectly willing to pay $20 to park if he did actually go.

Did I miss anything?

 

[Dado]

If the opposition was good it wouldn't matter where they are from. If the team sucked not too many would care

Yes, but "good" is a relative term, so there will always be "not good" opponents on the schedule. And there will always be "not attractive" opponents on the schedule, who also happen to be quality teams.

Always.

And fans will not show the same level of home team support when those unavoidable "not" teams are in town.

To me, this is an argument for contractionism, which I fully support.

 

[CGG]

More people will tune in if the home boy is playing Nadal or Federer than if he is playing an unknown from Mongolia.

Of this I have zero doubt.

I can agree with you on that, but that's based on talent, not origin of opponent. Who's to say Winnipeg won't be the far better team (Federer) than the huge drawing Phoenix Coyotes (Mongolian dude)?

 

[Confucius]

More people will tune in if the home boy is playing Nadal or Federer than if he is playing an unknown from Mongolia.

Of this I have zero doubt.

Again it's quality

 

[Confucius]

I can agree with you on that, but that's based on talent, not origin of opponent. Who's to say Winnipeg won't be the far better team (Federer) than the huge drawing Phoenix Coyotes (Mongolian dude)?

Thank God somebody understands

 

[Dado]

Again it's quality

It's marketability.

In Canada, a decent team from a Canadian rival will *always* be more marketable to fans than a team from Columbus, no matter how good that Columbus team might be.

 

[pucka lucka]

Thank God somebody understands

You see this if you use Detroit or Pittsburgh as examples. Are these 2 massively popular cities? Detroit has been the butt of jokes for 20 years now, due to economic conditions and urban decay. They seem to be a pretty good draw. If the city is what's important, how do the Pittsburgh Pirates or Detroit Lions draw?

 

[Confucius]

Yeah, but they will follow to a different extent if that homeboy is playing an outer Mongolian vs slaying one of the game's greats.

Look at it this way. Would the U S veiwership be greater for a preliminary round if the Matchup was Roddick vs Nadal. Or would it be greater for Roddick and some other American trying to qualify?

 

[MayDay]

Thread titles, in keeping with the Simon & Garfunkel theme:

XXXIV: Slip Slidin' Away


XXXIV: Homeward Bound


XXXIV: 50 Ways to Leave Your Hulsizer

Clearly, the most appropriate Simon & Garfunkel song title at this point in the process is "Still Crazy After All These Years."

 

[Dado]

I can agree with you on that, but that's based on talent, not origin of opponent.

I have to disagree.

A decent team from an O-6 type market is going to be a bigger draw than a decent++ team from a meaningless market.

Using the Canucks as an example, Calgary would have to really really really suck and Columbus would have to have the ghosts of Gretzky, Mario, and Lafleur playing for them before Columbus would outdraw Calgary in Vancouver. And even then I'm not sure they would.

Not all franchises are created equal.

 

[Confucius]

It's marketability.

In Canada, a decent team from a Canadian rival will *always* be more marketable to fans than a team from Columbus, no matter how good that Columbus team might be.

I don't believe that, if Columbus had Ovechkin, stamkos and Hossa, they would outdraw, the Rangers, anywhere.

 

[King Woodballs]

You see this if you use Detroit or Pittsburgh as examples. Are these 2 massively popular cities? Detroit has been the butt of jokes for 20 years now, due to economic conditions and urban decay. They seem to be a pretty good draw. If the city is what's important, how do the Pittsburgh Pirates or Detroit Lions draw?

how did the pens draw before crobsy?

 

[Jeffrey93]

Just listened to Bettman on Hockeycentral @ Noon....man is he stressing that he doesn't want people in Winnipeg getting their expectations up.

He didn't mention how he didn't want to interfere with the process....or how he didn't want to air the league's private affairs....all he said was that he doesn't want to get anyone's expectations up so he won't discuss a potential Plan B.

I'm starting to think Gary believes there is another card left to be played in Glendale and/or that Winnipeg is far from a shoe-in.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

I have to disagree.

A decent team from an O-6 type market is going to be a bigger draw than a decent++ team from a meaningless market.

Using the Canucks as an example, Calgary would have to really really really suck and Columbus would have to have the ghosts of Gretzky, Mario, and Lafleur playing for them before Columbus would outdraw Calgary in Vancouver. And even then I'm not sure they would.

Not all franchises are created equal.

Pretty much. It's also the same reason why Habs tickets for games against the Leafs are given premium pricing compared to say Florida or Columbus.

In some cities, the quality of some opponents have nothing to with premium pricing; however, there are also cases where quality does have an effect, such as Chicago visiting Montreal.

No matter the quality, Boston, NYR, Chicago, and Detroit will be big draws pretty much anywhere because there are generations of fans all over North America (transplants or not), whereas Columbus and Nashville do not have that luxury. It's the same reason why NBC relies on those four (along with Philly) for Sunday afternoon games.

 

[pucka lucka]

I have to disagree.

A decent team from an O-6 type market is going to be a bigger draw than a decent++ team from a meaningless market.

Using the Canucks as an example, Calgary would have to really really really suck and Columbus would have to have the ghosts of Gretzky, Mario, and Lafleur playing for them before Columbus would outdraw Calgary in Vancouver. And even then I'm not sure they would.

Not all franchises are created equal.

You are changing the discussion. Of course the largest cities with the largest absolute number of hockey fans will draw well, but that's not what we are talking about. You are cherry picking examples, that are mostly irrelevant. Of course Calgary will be a better draw in Edmonton, than a good Columbus team, but it has nothing to do with hockey.

 

[RAgIn]

I can't really blame Hulsizer for not going to the game tonight. The Phoenix economy has been hit hard, and why should we expect him to pay $75 for a playoff ticket when the team has been lousy for 15 years and the arena is so far away from downtown with rush hour traffic? Plus, I hear Hulsizer wants to make sure the team will be in Glendale long term before he's willing to commit to buying a ticket, and he's still upset because Moyes apparently overpaid his own company for chartered flights and office space back when a lousy coach was running the team. Oh yeah, but he's perfectly willing to pay $20 to park if he did actually go.

Did I miss anything?

I like your enthusiasm. Its probably because he can't get a a suite. The COG has dibs.

 

[Dado]

Of course Calgary will be a better draw in Edmonton, than a good Columbus team, but it has nothing to do with hockey.

Sounds like we're agreed that there is more to being a good road draw than being a good team, which in turn means the choice of opponent does, in fact, matter to "real fans".

Cheers.