Phoenix XXXIII: Sound of Silence

[Vic Rattlehead*]

I don't think road attendance is really a solid measure of anything.

Sure, it could be influenced by how attractive a team is as a road draw.

But it can be influenced by a lot of other things as well. How many of your road games fall on weekends. Which opposing conference division you happen to play on the road in a given year. Which division you are in, and how good of a home draw (and building capacity) or your divisional rivals.

Hence this little tidbit everyone glossed over:

Of course, this could have also been affected by what time/date the games were and other factors.

The point I'm arguing is that certain teams draw more/are given premium pricing regardless of quality (Toronto in Montreal, Montreal in Boston, Vancouver in Calgary, etc.).

Also the other little tidbit I provided people again glossed over:

Of course, these fluctuate year by year: last season Toronto was 14th in road attendance whereas Flordia was 29th.

Oh, and here's one more IMPORTANT point: I'm not the one who initially brought up road attendance and Florida "outdrawing" Toronto. All I did was posit why Florida was above Toronto because one poster asked "how is this possible?". I then stated that these numbers fluctuate year to year and depends on other factors.

 

[cbcwpg]

How is that possible?

Remember we are talking Road Attendance. If you happen to be lucky and end up playing more games against teams that draw well at home, you will have a high road attendance average. Likewise if you happen to play more games against teams that have low home draw, you will have low road attendance.

Its not really a fair number because the NHL does not have a balanced schedule.

 

[Oscar Acosta]

Give the Coyotes stable ownership and a winning team (a combination they haven't had in a long time) and they will draw.

Give Edmonton an MLB team that wins the World Series and they'll sell out too. Doesn't make it viable for a "stable owner" to take the losses until that day comes.

 

[Alex The Loyal]

You just sounded like another "NO TEAMS IN SOUTH PLZZZZ" fan.

Give the Coyotes stable ownership and a winning team (a combination they haven't had in a long time) and they will draw.

They have a playoff team and they still averaged 12,000. They're in the playoffs and are getting trolled. Out cheered by the Detroit fans, huge roars when Detroit scores and not that much when Phoenix did. They didn't even sell out the freaking game if you count Standing Room

I mean, I'm for Hockey in The South, Dallas seems to have welcomed the sport pretty well. Obviously it's not as popular as football, baseball, college football...and high school football probably, but they have a good following. I'm okay with Hockey in Florida, though I think having two teams there wasn't really the best choice, but oh well. Phoenix however, is a terrible choice for a hockey team. It's not catching on and it never will

 

[Confucius]

The road attendance numbers are a lot "flatter" than the home numbers. Only about a 2,200 fan spread from top to bottom. The low-lights of the east get their road averages boosted by playing multiple games in consistent sell-outs Montreal, Toronto, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Washington. There's 11 road sell-outs for the Panthers right there. Boston & the Rangers almost hit 100% capacity, so there's 4 more big numbers. Ottawa & Buffalo are also over 98%; add another 4. There's almost half the road schedule gone at over 98% capacity, over 18,000 fans per game. That leaves a lot of slack for the dead nights.

I never really looked at it that way, but you're correct. If you have to go Phoenix and Nashville 6 times a season, that will do a lot of damage to your road attendance.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

They have a playoff team and they still averaged 12,000. They're in the playoffs and are getting trolled. Out cheered by the Detroit fans, huge roars when Detroit scores and not that much when Phoenix did. They didn't even sell out the freaking game if you count Standing Room

I mean, I'm for Hockey in The South, Dallas seems to have welcomed the sport pretty well. Obviously it's not as popular as football, baseball, college football...and high school football probably, but they have a good following. I'm okay with Hockey in Florida, though I think having two teams there wasn't really the best choice, but oh well. Phoenix however, is a terrible choice for a hockey team. It's not catching on and it never will

Um....you know why they averaged 12,000 fans, right? For the most part, people in Phoenix have been hearing about how their team might be relocated and the future is in doubt. Who the hell is going to invest in a product that might not be there next season?

Again, love how you glossed over the "stable ownership + winning team combo". The ownership situation has been anything but stable over the past couple of years.

 

[Alex The Loyal]

The Jets fans sure as hell packed it in when they knew they're team was leaving.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

The Jets fans sure as hell packed it in when they knew they're team was leaving.

Average attendance for final season: 11,316

Previous three seasons: 13,013, 13,297, 13,550

Attendance levels dipped once they knew their team was leaving, which is the same reason why Phoenix's attendance has hit rock bottom the past two seasons (uncertainty with regards to future).

 

[Confucius]

Next thread title.......Return to Sender

or

Where were you when I needed you

 

[Plub]

The Jets fans sure as hell packed it in when they knew they're team was leaving.

That's great. However, Arizona fans have not been told the team will be leaving, have they? We are being kept in the dark about what is going on. Most of us would love to know if they are leaving or not so we can give them a propper send off. Did you take that into consideration? Probably not.

As far as using this, or last seasons attendance numbers as a base for an argument; it's silly. There is so much negative news about the team, there is no way the casual fan is going to become a loyal fan. If the situation was stable, it would, I think, be a lot different.

This whole things needs to be over. It is best for both sides. The Jets' fans feel like they are being used to get CoG to do what is needed to keep the team. The Coyotes' fans feel like a deal is already done to move the team, and we are being lied to.

As far as no-one cheering when the 'Yotes scored. That is total BS. The place was buzzing, and we were looking for anything to cheer for. Being down 2-0 in the game within three-minutes and 2-0 in the series isn't the greatest way to start a home game. The fans wanted to cheer, the team didn't give us much to cheer for. But of course Canadian fans would have cheered no matter what, because they are so much better than people in Arizona.

Would a little bit of objectivity kill some of you?

 

[Larabee]

Average attendance for final season: 11,316

Previous three seasons: 13,013, 13,297, 13,550

Attendance levels dipped once they knew their team was leaving, which is the same reason why Phoenix's attendance has hit rock bottom the past two seasons (uncertainty with regards to future).

You would think the uncertainty in Glendale the last 2 years would have the opposite effect and draw fans to the arena in an attempt to PROVE they can support the team. That would have solved their ownership issues. The Jets were different in the lame duck year. They could have sold out every game, but the end result would not have changed since they were already sold. Everyone knew that.

 

[Roadrage]

Average attendance for final season: 11,316

Previous three seasons: 13,013, 13,297, 13,550

Attendance levels dipped once they knew their team was leaving, which is the same reason why Phoenix's attendance has hit rock bottom the past two seasons (uncertainty with regards to future).

What was NHL avg. attendance those seasons? Winnipeg Arena capacity was 15400 so they played to 73% capacity in final season already knowing the team was gone. So previous 3 seasons they played to 88%, 86%, and 84% capacity. Can't say the Coyotes are anywhere near that.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

You would think the uncertainty in Glendale the last 2 years would have the opposite effect and draw fans to the arena in an attempt to PROVE they can support the team. That would have solved their ownership issues. The Jets were different in the lame duck year. They could have sold out every game, but the end result would not have changed since they were already sold. Everyone knew that.

The following post is quite the pefect counter-argument to your post:

That's great. However, Arizona fans have not been told the team will be leaving, have they? We are being kept in the dark about what is going on. Most of us would love to know if they are leaving or not so we can give them a propper send off. Did you take that into consideration? Probably not.

As far as using this, or last seasons attendance numbers as a base for an argument; it's silly. There is so much negative news about the team, there is no way the casual fan is going to become a loyal fan. If the situation was stable, it would, I think, be a lot different.

This whole things needs to be over. It is best for both sides. The Jets' fans feel like they are being used to get CoG to do what is needed to keep the team. The Coyotes' fans feel like a deal is already done to move the team, and we are being lied to.

As far as no-one cheering when the 'Yotes scored. That is total BS. The place was buzzing, and we were looking for anything to cheer for. Being down 2-0 in the game within three-minutes and 2-0 in the series isn't the greatest way to start a home game. The fans wanted to cheer, the team didn't give us much to cheer for. But of course Canadian fans would have cheered no matter what, because they are so much better than people in Arizona.

Would a little bit of objectivity kill some of you?

 

[Larabee]

Would a little bit of objectivity kill some of you?

Your icon is objectionable

 

[Oscar Acosta]

Again, love how you glossed over the "stable ownership + winning team combo". The ownership situation has been anything but stable over the past couple of years.

Again, I'll jump on it. Put a winning team anywhere and people will show up, it's a bandwagon effect. But to ask an owner to put up huge losses in the meantime is not a viable option, an owner will never be stable if they're losing millions a year.

Again, if you put an MLB team in Edmonton the owner would get killed losing money, it's not a baseball market and it's not a viable option. He wouldn't be stable and never would be. Put a winning team there (I guess one that doesn't just make the playoffs because Phoenix does that, so you must mean win a Cup), a championship team and it would sell out.

It's those years between championships that de-stabilize any owner trying to keep a franchise afloat in a market that it won't work in long term.