Phoenix XXXIII: Sound of Silence

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pucka lucka

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Apr 7, 2010
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Just listened to Bettman on Hockeycentral @ Noon....man is he stressing that he doesn't want people in Winnipeg getting their expectations up.

He didn't mention how he didn't want to interfere with the process....or how he didn't want to air the league's private affairs....all he said was that he doesn't want to get anyone's expectations up so he won't discuss a potential Plan B.

I'm starting to think Gary believes there is another card left to be played in Glendale and/or that Winnipeg is far from a shoe-in.

Oh wait, you don't think Winnipeg will get a team, Winnipeg is a bad market, and we are all dreaming? Thanks.
 

RAgIn

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Oct 21, 2010
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Sudbury, Ont
Goldwater To Meet City Of Glendale To Discuss Coyotes

The city, according to Goldwater, is now willing to do so with a third party present.

"As you may have heard, Glendale Mayor Scruggs has invited the Goldwater Institute to meet to discuss our concerns with the city of Glendale's plan to issue bonds to help a businessman buy the Phoenix Coyotes," the government watchdog said in a statement.

"To ensure transparency, we have agreed to have a neutral third-party transcript of the conversation made available to the public and members of the press. We are pleased to be meeting with Glendale in this open manner and look forward to sharing the results of the meeting with you."

Official. No video and no media, except for the third party.

http://www.tsn.ca/story/?id=362994

Edit. More:

Goldwater has pushed for such a meeting to be held in a public forum with the media present. Glendale Mayor Elaine Scruggs and city manager Ed Beasley turned down that request. The meeting will be transcribed, however, and the discussion will be made public.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2011/04/20/glendale-goldwater-to-meet-on-coyotes.html
 

pucka lucka

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Apr 7, 2010
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Sounds like we're agreed that there is more to being a good road draw than being a good team, which in turn means the choice of opponent does, in fact, matter to "real fans".

Cheers.

My point is of course there are always a few team that have special attributes, mostly being from the largest cities with a long history in the sport. Is Phoenix a better draw in NYC than Vancouver? How about Atlanta in Boston, vs Calgary? Besides those select teams that have a long history and a large population, I think the quality of the team is more important, especially in hockey ( gate driven).
 

Alex The Loyal

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Dec 4, 2010
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How can there be another card? HOW? We're approaching the 11th Hour and 59th Minute here. Nothing seems to have changed or be getting done at all.

For god sakes the Yotes averaged 12000 in attendance and only 9 thousand households watched on tv. That is putrid. Who cares about the population of Winnipeg or Glendale. Phoenix might have 5 Million or whatever amount of citizens, but only around thirty-fifty thousand hockey fans. Winnipeg however, has hundreds of thousands of Hockey fans that live and breathe the sport. It's ****ing ridiculous that these ass clowns think Phoenix has a hockey market worth saving :facepalm:
 

Jeffrey93

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Nov 7, 2007
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This whole thing about where the team is from makes a difference at the gate or on the tube is silly.

Right now maybe the Rangers draw better in Phoenix than say the Senators. But....Phoenix wouldn't be some huge marquee team in the opposite direction....anywhere.

If they're a rival...they're a rival.

People go to see the big named teams....fine. But Phoenix isn't one of them. It isn't as if you are taking a big name team that people do whatever they can to see...for some Canadian city that people don't readily recognize. It's a wash. No gain no loss.

What people are fiercly flipping channels because 'The Coyotes are on! Must watch!' or ditching work early on a Wednesday because 'The Coyotes are in town!!'???? Where does this happen?

Argue that it won't happen with a Winnipeg team....I don't agree but I get the point. But at least admit it isn't currently happening with a Phoenix team either....and likely won't....ever.

Go to ESPN's attendance for this year and sort it by Road Average. The Devils are ahead of the Rangers.....the Senators are ahead of the Stars. The Panthers are ahead of the Leafs. And the Coyotes are 25th in the league.

It doesn't seem to matter where the team is from....star players, rivalries and quality of the team bring people out.
 

Confucius

There is no try, Just do
Feb 8, 2009
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How can there be another card? HOW? We're approaching the 11th Hour and 59th Minute here. Nothing seems to have changed or be getting done at all.

For god sakes the Yotes averaged 12000 in attendance and only 9 thousand households watched on tv. That is putrid. Who cares about the population of Winnipeg or Glendale. Phoenix might have 5 Million or whatever amount of citizens, but only around thirty-fifty thousand hockey fans. Winnipeg however, has hundreds of thousands of Hockey fans that live and breathe the sport. It's ****ing ridiculous that these ass clowns think Phoenix has a hockey market worth saving :facepalm:

As long as someone else is losing the money, the league doesn't care.

They've been there for 15 years, how many more years until they get 600,000 plus viewers per game on pay per view?
 
Nov 13, 2006
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I have to disagree.

A decent team from an O-6 type market is going to be a bigger draw than a decent++ team from a meaningless market.

Using the Canucks as an example, Calgary would have to really really really suck and Columbus would have to have the ghosts of Gretzky, Mario, and Lafleur playing for them before Columbus would outdraw Calgary in Vancouver. And even then I'm not sure they would.

Not all franchises are created equal.

That's very true. The other issue is that these things can be somewhat regional. Calgary doesn't draw flies in places like Chicago, St. Louis, Columbus, Philly etc. Montreal does.

I can tell you without question, in Columbus the best visiting draws are Detroit, Pittsburgh, Philly and Boston. Only two are O-6 teams. Detroit, Pittsburgh, Philly draw well because most Columbus hockey fans were fans of one of those three teams before there was a team here.

I hope Winnipeg does get a team somehow. That team might be a good draw in Alberta and Minnesota, maybe even B.C.
 

Vic Rattlehead*

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How is that possible? :huh:

Likely because an average/below-average Canadian team isn't as big of an attraction in New York/Pennsylvania/Florida/etc. as it is in Ottawa and Montreal.

Can't really use the quality of the home teams the Leafs visit as an excuse because (1) the teams in their division were at 96%+ capacity this season and (2) despite having very similar schedules, the other four teams in the division were ahead of Toronto. Of course, this could have also been affected by what time/date the games were and other factors.
 

Vic Rattlehead*

Guest
Of course, these fluctuate year by year: last season Toronto was 14th in road attendance whereas Flordia was 29th.
 

Vic Rattlehead*

Guest
I did a double take on that. I mean, the Panthers have roughly 7 and a half fans. How the hell do they beat the Leafs fans?

15,618 average attendance this season = 7 and a half fans?

The fact Florida is above 15,000 is a miracle considering the franchise has been awful for years now.
 

Ari91

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Nov 24, 2010
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Toronto
So no decisions has been made. They're still doing everything humanly possible to keep the team in Pheonix. They don't want Winnipeg to get their hopes up. And still, there is no deadline on the matter. So what part of this news is actually new?
 

Alex The Loyal

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Dec 4, 2010
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15,146 average attendance this season = 7 and a half fans?

The fact Florida is above 15,000 is a miracle considering the franchise has been awful for years now.
I couldn't find a place to put ":sarcasm:" in the post. I was hoping the sarcasm would be easily detected :(
 

Jeffrey93

Registered User
Nov 7, 2007
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Likely because an average/below-average Canadian team isn't as big of an attraction in New York/Pennsylvania/Florida/etc. as it is in Ottawa and Montreal.

Can't really use the quality of the home teams the Leafs visit as an excuse because (1) the teams in their division were at 96%+ capacity this season and (2) despite having very similar schedules, the other four teams in the division were ahead of Toronto. Of course, this could have also been affected by what time/date the games were and other factors.

Oilers are 13th....ahead of Ducks, Sharks, Canucks, Kings, Sabres, Panthers, Stars, Maple Leafs, Lightning, Coyotes, Hurricanes, Thrashers, Flames, Blue Jackets, Wild, Blues and Predators.

A small market, Canadian, bottom of the standings team outdraws a pile of huge market big named teams on the road.

They were ahead of Vancouver....the best team in the league. Ahead of the Kings...huge US market. Ahead of the Stars....huge US market. Ahead of the Sharks...very skilled US team.

It doesn't seem to matter much where you are from....maybe Hall & Eberle got people's attention.

What division you play most of your games in plays a role as well....if you play against a crap division (Capitals) fans in those road cities are going to stay at home until your team shows up.

Again...it all seems to be a wash and doesn't follow any 'big name' city philosophy. I'm sure in 5 to 10 years the road attendance ranking will be considerably different.
 

Vic Rattlehead*

Guest
I couldn't find a place to put ":sarcasm:" in the post. I was hoping the sarcasm would be easily detected :(
Nice backtracking there.

Was the following sarcasm as well?

How can there be another card? HOW? We're approaching the 11th Hour and 59th Minute here. Nothing seems to have changed or be getting done at all.

For god sakes the Yotes averaged 12000 in attendance and only 9 thousand households watched on tv. That is putrid. Who cares about the population of Winnipeg or Glendale. Phoenix might have 5 Million or whatever amount of citizens, but only around thirty-fifty thousand hockey fans. Winnipeg however, has hundreds of thousands of Hockey fans that live and breathe the sport. It's ****ing ridiculous that these ass clowns think Phoenix has a hockey market worth saving :facepalm:

You just sounded like another "NO TEAMS IN SOUTH PLZZZZ" fan.

Give the Coyotes stable ownership and a winning team (a combination they haven't had in a long time) and they will draw.
 

Confucius

There is no try, Just do
Feb 8, 2009
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Oilers are 13th....ahead of Ducks, Sharks, Canucks, Kings, Sabres, Panthers, Stars, Maple Leafs, Lightning, Coyotes, Hurricanes, Thrashers, Flames, Blue Jackets, Wild, Blues and Predators.

A small market, Canadian, bottom of the standings team outdraws a pile of huge market big named teams on the road.

They were ahead of Vancouver....the best team in the league. Ahead of the Kings...huge US market. Ahead of the Stars....huge US market. Ahead of the Sharks...very skilled US team.

It doesn't seem to matter much where you are from....maybe Hall & Eberle got people's attention.

What division you play most of your games in plays a role as well....if you play against a crap division (Capitals) fans in those road cities are going to stay at home until your team shows up.

Again...it all seems to be a wash and doesn't follow any 'big name' city philosophy. I'm sure in 5 to 10 years the road attendance ranking will be considerably different.

Absolutely correct:handclap:
 

MayDay

Registered User
Oct 21, 2005
12,661
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Pleasantville, NY
I don't think road attendance is really a solid measure of anything.

Sure, it could be influenced by how attractive a team is as a road draw.

But it can be influenced by a lot of other things as well. How many of your road games fall on weekends. Which opposing conference division you happen to play on the road in a given year. Which division you are in, and how good of a home draw (and building capacity) or your divisional rivals.
 

optimus2861

Registered User
Aug 29, 2005
5,044
531
Bedford NS
How is that possible? :huh:
The road attendance numbers are a lot "flatter" than the home numbers. Only about a 2,200 fan spread from top to bottom. The low-lights of the east get their road averages boosted by playing multiple games in consistent sell-outs Montreal, Toronto, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Washington. There's 11 road sell-outs for the Panthers right there. Boston & the Rangers almost hit 100% capacity, so there's 4 more big numbers. Ottawa & Buffalo are also over 98%; add another 4. There's almost half the road schedule gone at over 98% capacity, over 18,000 fans per game. That leaves a lot of slack for the dead nights.
 
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