Phoenix XXXIII: Sound of Silence

[Fugu]

Early on in the bankruptcy the Commissioner sent an email to his deputy stating that if the team had to move, it would not go to Hamilton but to Winnipeg. Now, that’s not publicly leading the people on, but you’ll also agree that it’s a tad more substantial than some anonymous rumor on a messageboard or something like that. The reality is that the Coyotes are in severe danger of moving, as even their most ardent supporters will admit. So…it doesn’t take long to connect the dots there.

To be fair, that wasn't meant for public consumption, but were Bettman's emails discovered in the BK process. He has always qualified it as not wanting to give false hope, and backed it by fighting every step of the way to save Phoenix.

You really need to listen to Shoalts to fully appreciate what a clown he has become. Forget his reporting on Phoenix, listen to his stories of his personal life or the ridiculous inane questions he poses to Brian Burke or Ron Wilson in their press conferences or media con calls. I actually enjoy him for the comic relief.

His questions to Burke last July 1 truly brought him to new comedic highs. He has the ability to make himself sound like a fool with the skill of few I've ever come across.

I think he lets his fandom get in the way sometimes. Nevertheless, lets not begrudge him what he does dig up when others fail to do so. The last two pages of discussion here are based on what one US BoG member said, preferring to be identified as anonymous. I don't believe Shoalts would claim a BOG member made the comments if he didn't have a name for his editor.

 

[Fugu]

“To be truthful, we hate to lose a big market like Phoenix. That's it in a nutshell.†That governor also said it would be hard to sell a team from a small Canadian city, like Winnipeg, to fans in his market, “especially on Tuesday and Wednesday nights.â€

Even the governors don't get it sometimes. IMO where a team is from has nothing to do with it being a poor draw on a Tuesday night. Its all about how good that team is. Hockey fans everywhere want to see good hockey. This governor is assuming just because a team is in a small Canadian market it will always be a poor team talent wise.

Let's say both Winnipeg and Phoenix had teams. Does the team from PHX automatically become a better road draw than Winnipeg because they are from Phoenix? Maybe if they have identical teams. But let's say the team from PHX is last in the league and the team from Winnipeg had Sidney Crosby playing for them and was one of the best teams in the NHL. I'm sure the team from Winnipeg would be a better draw than the team from PHX.

Want proof the governor doesn't know what he's talking about.... The number one road drawing team for 4 years in a row at one time was Edmonton. So based on this governor, even though Edmonton was the best team in the NHL at that time, they should have been a poor draw on the road, just because they were from Edmonton.

I was about to suggest the same thing with Sidney Crosby on the team. Was Pittsburgh w/o Sid or Mario (back in the day) ever going to be a huge draw or central feature of NHL marketing otherwise?

The NHL seems to have two types of drawing power-- the Original Six and their heavily entrenched fan bases that have spread out over both countries; and the superstar-laden Cup winning or Cup contending team that has the face of league on the roster.

 

[borno87]

Something caught my attention during the initial questions in the interview:

Bettman: "When Goldwater killed the deal...."

Sounds like Bettman confirming that the deal we have all come (Bond Issue, parking transaction etc.) to know and love is in fact dead, however Bettman continued on to state that they are working on completing a deal with MH.

This sounds to me like the reports about the old MH deal being "dead" were actually correct, however neither MH or the NHL has given up on completing a deal with some adjustments made to skate around GWI.

That Bettman interview makes the timing of the GWI-CoG meeting even stranger IMO. If MH and the NHL are still looking to avoid GWI altogether, why is CoG meeting them?

Mod: deleted.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

One thing though that I remember (and would appreciate if anyone can confirm) is that when Winnipeg was going through it's 11th hour discussions, the NHL did not budge on their rule that it required 1 owner, and that owner needed to have at least $600 million. (Not sure on the $600 million part).

Didn't the NHL change their stance for Edmonton and Calgary? Edmonton and Calgary were allowed to set up group ownership structures right?

I'm not saying that Edmonton received the Phoenix treatment, but if my memory is correct, they received a little better treatment than Winnipeg.

There were 4 conditions of the sale to the Spirit group in WPG that the league imposed:

1. A single owner had to buy the team, not an ownership group;

2. The individual owner had to demonstrate a net worth of at least $600M;

3. The non-existent single owner had to develop a business case proving profitability that met BOG approval; and

4. The owner would also have to agree to a 20 year no-relocation clause.

Note: many will also note the arena situation, but by this time the City of WPG and Province had committed $65M to help finance a new arena.
----

There is no question that there is a double standard when you look at the leagues efforts to save WPG and QC vs other cities. I would also note that the NHL's CDN Assistance plan was not brought in until after WPG and QC were gone. I'm sure the league also understood that losing other CDN teams (Ottawa, Edmonton, Calgary) would pose a risk of competing with a WHA-like rogue professional league.

History aside, I'm sure the league would act differently now if any CDN teams were at risk. Hopefully we can put this behind us soon, given the fact that the league is seriously considering WPG as a relocation desitination as early as next year.

 

[RAgIn]

Bettman: League Still Working On Phoenix

From Sporsnet Radio interview with Bettman:

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman says the league continues to work at keeping a team in Phoenix. There has been speculation that the Coyotes' days are numbered.``We are still focused on trying to make it work in Phoenix,'' Bettman told HockeyCentral @ Noon.

``I hope we're successful ... Do we have an infinite amount of time? The answer is obviously not. But we haven't been holding an announcement waiting to see when the Coyotes are done playing, I can assure you of that.''

That settles it then. I guess we'll have to wait till after the Stanley Cup Final. GREAT.

Report: http://www.fan590.com/more.jsp?content=20110420_124728_11412

Audio: http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?content=20110420_124514_15016

 

[Royale With Cheese]

I think this pretty much confirms that TNSE is in the picture and there have at least been some preliminary talks between the two groups.

Yesterday at 5:00 PM, a good friend of mine was having drinks with 2 TNSE lawyers at a local bar. They are definitely (100%) working on a tentative deal with the NHL. Anyone stating anything different is lying.

They also made it clear that they still had no idea what was going to happen down in Phoenix with Hulsizer, but they are definitely working on the file up here.

 

[Killion]

Bettman: "When Goldwater killed the deal...."

Interesting. Those 5 words bespeak much. As for the COG pulling a screen on the GWI?. How so?. Its nothing more than political posturing & damage control by the Scruggs/McCain camp to give every appearance of having done everything possible to keep the team. Absent the participation of MH/NHL nothing substantive will be accomplished. Glendale will reiterate their position; GWI refute's. More to the point whats the point?. This was spurred on by John McCain. He whose judgment is always left wanting. IMO, another dumb & completely useless waste of time of an idea from the Senator.

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

More notable quotes by Bettman (courtesy of Illegal Curve):

"I'm not going to confirm or deny that we've been negotiating with the Chipman group."

"Obviously at the point when we issue a schedule for next season, we need to know where the team is playing"

 

[RAgIn]

Bettman: NHL remains committed to Phoenix

More:

Appearing on Toronto radio station the Fan 590 this afternoon, Bettman was asked if tonight's Game 4 against the Detroit Red Wings could be the final game in Phoenix for the team.

"It's not really a fair question," he said. "And the speculation that we've been holding some announcement waiting for them to stop playing is absolutely wrong. We're still focused on trying to make it work in Phoenix.

"And I hope we're successful. Obviously when the Goldwater Institute killed the deal, it was a huge setback. Nobody expected them to do that. We didn't think it was right that they did it, but the focus is still on making it work.

I'm truly wondering what if anything the NHL can do to help this deal move forward...
Downgrade the purchase price? Not likely. Buy the bonds? Not likely. Be a mediator for the COG and GWI? Not likely. Pretend like the deal is still progressing to infinity? Likely. What else? Not likely.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...-remains-committed-to-phoenix/article1992931/

 

[cbcwpg]

I'm truly wondering what if anything the NHL can do to help this deal move forward...
Downgrade the purchase price? Not likely. Buy the bonds? Not likely. Be a mediator for the COG and GWI? Not likely. Pretend like the deal is still progressing to infinity? Likely. What else? Not likely.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...-remains-committed-to-phoenix/article1992931/

Sure there is. Its not a question of CAN the NHL do something, its a question of WILL they do something. Lower the price and the deal gets done.

 

[RAgIn]

Sure there is. Its not a question of CAN the NHL do something, its a question of WILL they do something. Lower the price and the deal gets done.

Agreed.

 

[cbcwpg]

Interesting. Those 5 words bespeak much. As for the COG pulling a screen on the GWI?. How so?. Its nothing more than political posturing & damage control by the Scruggs/McCain camp to give every appearance of having done everything possible to keep the team. Absent the participation of MH/NHL nothing substantive will be accomplished. Glendale will reiterate their position; GWI refute's. More to the point whats the point?. This was spurred on by John McCain. He whose judgment is always left wanting. IMO, another dumb & completely useless waste of time of an idea from the Senator.

I have no idea what the CoG is thinking they are going to accomplish with this meeting. Various people/groups keep throwing out the word " negotiate " incorrectly. The fact is that in this case there is NO NEGOTIATING. The deal is either in violation of the law or it is not. ( period )

 

[CoyoteUgly]

Yesterday at 5:00 PM, a good friend of mine was having drinks with 2 TNSE lawyers at a local bar. They are definitely (100%) working on a tentative deal with the NHL. Anyone stating anything different is lying.

.

Well then it must be true. I guess that's it. Coyotes were done. NHL.com should write a story about your friend.

 

[MayDay]

That settles it then. I guess we'll have to wait till after the Stanley Cup Final. GREAT.

Doesn't the NHL need to have schedules for next season finalized sometime soon?

This can't go on too much longer.

 

[RAgIn]

From said interview:

Bettman:

Hulsizer didn't attend the games because of the media frenzy. Probably had and has other things going on. Don't have the luxury to attend, especially when travelling.

No timeline on deal, but expect to know where franchise is before the schedule is released (June). Setting a dealine right now would serve any useful or constructive purpose.

Threat of lawsuit made the bonds un-saleable. GWI hasn't proved anything and likely won't have to.

COG with Hulsizer trying to find other solutions around GWI. NHL helping. Questions of logistics versus time.

 

[mucker*]

Phoenix is done.
Sad.

 

[htpwn]

I'll post this again, email from Make It Seven on May 16th 2009.

Last week, the NHL filed a motion with the bankruptcy court in Phoenix which argued, in part, that scheduling issues made it impossible to fulfill the main condition of my offer to buy the Phoenix Coyotes, that is to bring the team to Hamilton and to begin NHL-scheduled play this fall.

This should not go on for much more than a week and a half, lest the NHL come off as hypocritical.

 

[Winnipeg Jets]

Bettman said. "I think it would be fair to say that I don't have the deal for the club to go anywhere else right now. If I had to get to a deal at some point, my guess is I could probably arrange it."

Who else could he have to arrange a deal with so quickly? It has to be TNSE and they have to be in the picture at this point. Bettman neither confirming nor denying the fact speaks volumes about TN's involvement at the this time.

 

[Dado]

...lest the NHL come off as hypocritical.

I think it's safe to say from the NHL's history that they don't give a goose fart about appearing "hyocritical".

 

[htpwn]

I think it's safe to say from the NHL's history that they don't give a goose fart about appearing "hyocritical".

I'm aware of that and I also have no doubt that they will come up with some B.S. excuse if anybody questions them on it. But nonetheless, just another double standard worth mentioning.

 

[Dado]

Well then it must be true. I guess that's it. Coyotes were done. NHL.com should write a story about your friend.

How does this help the discussion?

While it is always wise to take anecdotes with a large grain of salt, it is also worth keeping in mind that people do have friends, they do go to bars, and people involved in all kinds of deals do, in fact, talk out of school, especially when in company of friends and alcohol.

I have no idea if the OP's anecdote has merit, but it sure doesn't deserve rudeness as a response.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

Well then it must be true. I guess that's it. Coyotes were done. NHL.com should write a story about your friend.

I see you conveniently left out the second part of his post. The part where he clearly states he's not speculating on the Coyotes deal itself.

Regardless of what happens in Phoenix, the NHL has almost certainly been in recent talks with TNSE.

 

[cheswick]

Well then it must be true. I guess that's it. Coyotes were done. NHL.com should write a story about your friend.

At no point did he say the coyotes were done. He said the NHL was negotiating with True North.

It's pretty ignorant if you assume the NHL is not working on a back up plan in case they can't get something figured out in Phoenix.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

Well then it must be true. I guess that's it. Coyotes were done. NHL.com should write a story about your friend.

I see you left out part 2 of my post, which stated that while TNSE lawyers are actively working on a tentative agreement, they have no idea if the Phoenix deal will close or not. Be nice, quote properly.

For the record, I'm a Coyotes fan. I don't want them to move.

 

[cbcwpg]

I don't get Bettman's denying talking to TNSE...

"I'm not going to confirm or deny that we've been negotiating with the Chipman group."

History has shown that the CoG will not do anything until they are forced to. If Bettman wants the CoG to do something to close the deal, he should put the pressure on the CoG. Publically state " Yes, we are in current negotiations with TNSE to sell the Coyotes to them " and " Yes, we have given the green light for TNSE to be taking Season Ticket orders".

You want the CoG to jump and do something ( like pull $100M out of a hat ), have Bettman say those two things. Guarenteed to get things moving.