Phoenix XXXIII: Sound of Silence

[Dado]

More notable quotes by Bettman (courtesy of Illegal Curve):

"I'm not going to confirm or deny that we've been negotiating with the Chipman group."

Now ask him if he's negotiating with Ballsilie. I guarantee there won't be an equivocating "won't confirm or deny" response.

 

[RAgIn]

I see you conveniently left out the second part of his post. The part where he clearly states he's not speculating on the Coyotes deal itself.

Regardless of what happens in Phoenix, the NHL has almost certainly been in recent talks with TNSE.

It's all but guarenteed now. If you can't deny it, then it must be true. A confirmation at this point would only create a sense of euphoria in Winnipeg. In reality, Bettman is being wise in downplaying the situation, because IF the deal proceeds with Glendale (which I highly doubt), then the hopes of a return of the jets would be dashed for good.

Unless, Atlanta, relocates.

From the said interview: Probably the most important thing he said was at the end. Bettman: Were nowhere close to making an announcement.

Video of interview: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/04/20/bettman_hcnoon/

 

[southpaw24]

To me Bettman in his interview with the Fan590 seemed like a kid who didnt want to accept that his dog is dead. Just came off as very angry, argumentative and whiny.

Now I dont know whats going on with the deals, never said I did, but you have to think that the crash cart is being wheeled down the hallways towards to coyotes right now.

 

[RAgIn]

Prospective owner needs to show his face

Strong words from the Sports Editor at AzCentral

Matthew Hulsizer needs to show up at Jobing.com Arena tonight for Game 4 of this rapidly deteriorating Stanley Cup playoff series against Detroit.

He won't be here, we're told, and that's troubling. Another absence by the would-be owner of the Coyotes would send an unmistakable message to fans and players: He can't save the team, the move to Winnipeg is imminent, and all that's left is for the NHL to blow the whistle.

Not the case? Then prove it. Show up at Westgate. Walk around the arena concourse. Mingle with the Coyotes faithful who are begging you - someone, anyone - to prove that their faith in your earnestness (and money) and the NHL's supposed commitment to keeping the team in Arizona isn't a misdirection play during the playoff push and these lucrative postseason games.

His people insist that all is well, that he is as committed as ever, and there's really nothing more to be said until the monetary chasm that's vexing Goldwater is solved.

IMO, it would be in the best interest of the Coyotes and to the deal if the prospective owner would show up to at least one home playoff game. Hope is key.

You can get a headache trying to read the tea leaves in this soap opera, but it doesn't take much of a cynic to piece together the timing of ramped-up rumors of an impending move north, the collapse of the team on the ice, the mute Hulsizer, and conclude the worst.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coy...hoenix-coyotes-owner-needs-show-his-face.html

 

[ClearTheTrack]

maybe it's me but do diehard hockey fans change allegiances solely based on geographical location? CAN they??

I grew up in Buffalo - moved to Boston ~20 years ago for school and stayed - and you'll sooner see me put a knife through my eye than become a Bruins fan. And they *have* had success over the past 20 years. A cousin of mine moved to Phoenix 8-9 years ago and is as big a Sabres fan as ever.

I'm not sure converting fans of current teams into a fan of the local team is a very good short or long term strategy.

I agree with you that is bad. I won't even try to defend it. One reason, however, that the NHL wants to keep Phoenix as a market is because of the number of transplant hockey fans from Western Canada and the mid-west that live in the Valley. What I can't understand, after 15 years of Coyote hockey, is why all those Canuck, Flame, Oil, Red Wing, Hawks, Blues and Wild fans from their original place of residence, were not made into Coyote fans after 15 years. The Cardinals faced the same problem for their first 20 years until the team made the playoffs and competed for the Super Bowl.

I just don't understand why it is so hard to get, what I know to be a ton of hockey fans in a metropolitian area of over 3.5 million, to actually become Coyote fans. Years of losing, no playoff success, terrible ownership, a bad location, all has some effect - but the team just simply hasn't caught the attention of the average hockey fan.

Having said all that, I would be interested in seeing the numbers of fans in Phoenix who tune in to versus or NBC for national games. It is probably much better than the number of fans who actually watch the local Coyote broadcast.

 

[Koss]

I don't get Bettman's denying talking to TNSE...

"I'm not going to confirm or deny that we've been negotiating with the Chipman group."

History has shown that the CoG will not do anything until they are forced to. If Bettman wants the CoG to do something to close the deal, he should put the pressure on the CoG. Publically state " Yes, we are in current negotiations with TNSE to sell the Coyotes to them " and " Yes, we have given the green light for TNSE to be taking Season Ticket orders".

You want the CoG to jump and do something ( like pull $100M out of a hat ), have Bettman say those two things. Guarenteed to get things moving.

Bettman doesn't need to put pressure on CoG. He already has their undying support and my impression is that the NHL is inside the city trying to weasel out a deal by hook or by crook.

The deal with MH as we understood it may be dead, but I'm convinced that the NHL, with it's new found TV money, will hang around Phoenix for another season and scheme up another plan with MH or someone else.

 

[Fugu]

From said interview:

Bettman:

Hulsizer didn't attend the games because of the media frenzy. Probably have other things going on. Don't have the luxury to attend, especially when travelling.

No timeline on deal, but expect to know where franchise is before the schedule is released (June). Setting a dealine right now would serve any useful or constructive purpose.

Threat of lawsuit made the bonds un-saleable. GWI hasn't proved anything and likely won't have to.

COG with Hulsizer trying to find other solutions around GWI. NHL helping. Questions of logistics versus time.

I think COG and NHL can take their own fair share of the blame for underestimating the power and will of GWI. I think they were dismissed overtly which ended up being their Achille's Heel. Bad, bad misplay.

 

[CasualFan]

From Sporsnet Radio interview with Bettman: Audio: http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?content=20110420_124514_15016

Gary Bettman: “The Gift Clause is an Arizona Law it means that you just can’t give money that doesn’t have a commensurate value or benefit coming back.â€

I'm surprised that the commissioner intentionally misrepresented the Gift Clause test by referring to "commensurate value".

 

[Royale With Cheese]

Re: the Hulsizer no show at the games...

It seems to me that Hulsizer has played his final card in this, he won't move on his portion of the purchase price.

This likely comes down to two options, yes?

1. NHL reduces the purchase price

and / or

2. CoG comes up with a different form of subsidy which Goldwater doesn't argue with.

I still believe Bettman will close the deal in Phoenix. He's too arrogant and stubborn not to.

 

[pucka lucka]

Gary Bettman: “The Gift Clause is an Arizona Law it means that you just can’t give money that doesn’t have a commensurate value or benefit coming back.â€

I'm surprised that the commissioner intentionally misrepresented the Gift Clause test by referring to "commensurate value".

I thought of you when he said that.

 

[Winnipeg Jets]

I don't get Bettman's denying talking to TNSE...

"I'm not going to confirm or deny that we've been negotiating with the Chipman group."

History has shown that the CoG will not do anything until they are forced to. If Bettman wants the CoG to do something to close the deal, he should put the pressure on the CoG. Publically state " Yes, we are in current negotiations with TNSE to sell the Coyotes to them " and " Yes, we have given the green light for TNSE to be taking Season Ticket orders".

You want the CoG to jump and do something ( like pull $100M out of a hat ), have Bettman say those two things. Guarenteed to get things moving.

Well that would go directly against Bettman's promise of not getting Winnipeg's hopes up. I'm sure there are many other business reasons he can't directly say it either.

 

[RAgIn]

A public sit-down? This must be serious - Transparency comes to the table

Don't expect Goldwater's position to change. Time and again, Goldwater's message has been misread and its will underestimated. The right-wing taxpayer lobby isn't interested in making deals. It is comprised of ideologues who oppose corporate welfare.

Goldwater has repeatedly said the way for the Coyotes to remain in Arizona is for Hulsizer, or some other buyer, to purchase the team with their own money.

Unless that's what Scruggs is coming to put on the table, expect this meeting to be over before the TV cameras get rolling.

One has to wonder as to what kind of set up this meeting will procure? Q&A? Will the media have a say? Should be interesting.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/op...-sit-down-this-must-be-serious-120264899.html

 

[goyotes]

Gary Bettman: “The Gift Clause is an Arizona Law it means that you just can’t give money that doesn’t have a commensurate value or benefit coming back.â€

I'm surprised that the commissioner intentionally misrepresented the Gift Clause test by referring to "commensurate value".

Well played sir.

In terms of the Arizona Republican article, why should MH show up? That is stupid. He has done his part. He is ready to perform under the agreement. It is all on the CoG's shoulders right now. There is nothing he should be doing to change a deal he made. If the CoG cannot perform its part, the team leaves. I don't blame MH or the NHL for the relocation. Heck, I don't blame the CoG if it decides the price was too high. I do blame the GWI to a degree but really it is more of not approving with their tactics. As a non-profit, public interest group, I hold them to a higher standard than basic extortion.

 

[CoyoteUgly]

I see you left out part 2 of my post, which stated that while TNSE lawyers are actively working on a tentative agreement, they have no idea if the Phoenix deal will close or not. Be nice, quote properly.

For the record, I'm a Coyotes fan. I don't want them to move.

I didnt leave anything out, quite the opposite. I left too much in. I should have ONLY left this part in the quote: a good friend of mine was having drinks with 2 TNSE lawyers at a local bar.

It was more of a joke about if it's said in a bar, it must be true. Sorry for the misunderstanding, i didnt mean anything personally directed towards you.

I believe TNSE is working on a tentative agreement to get a team, whether or not it's the Coyotes or Thrashers or expansion. In fact I am in favor of Winnipeg getting their own team, i would just prefer them to not have the Coyotes. I think a Coyotes/Jets rivalry would be a good thing.

I was even interviewed in the Winnipeg Sun and said the same thing

 

[RAgIn]

I think COG and NHL can take their own fair share of the blame for underestimating the power and will of GWI. I think they were dismissed overtly which ended up being their Achille's Heel. Bad, bad misplay.

Indeed. Plus they keep reiterating that other venues were built in Arizona in the past with incentives to the developper. However, the GWI was not a litigating factor in those days. Times are changing.

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

I think the meeting has the potential to be either very good or very bad.

It all depends on COG's mindset. If they come out swinging at GWI and blaming them for impeding the deal, then GWI will likely just do the same and it'll be a giant pissing match.

However, if COG comes in earnest and are open to altering their deal to suit COG's concerns and are generally willing to compromise, there's a chance both sides could come to a resolution to keep the team in Phoenix.

 

[RAgIn]

Gary Bettman: “The Gift Clause is an Arizona Law it means that you just can’t give money that doesn’t have a commensurate value or benefit coming back.â€

I'm surprised that the commissioner intentionally misrepresented the Gift Clause test by referring to "commensurate value".

He doesn't always tell the truth. Good catch.

 

[Confucius]

What's interesting is that some of the reasons we're now reading about trhe league wanting to stabilize in Phoenix are "league" issues over "market" issues, while the benefits to relocation to Winnipeg are mostly "market" issues. In other words, the league would like to remain in a seemingly poor market because it's viewed as a big city by other markets... Winnipeg would be a great local market but can't be sold to larger US markets.

Why can anybody ever answer why that is? Why does it matter where your opposition is from? If you're a tennis player from outer Mongolia that made it to the finals of the U S open. Would tennis fans say, Mongolia? Meh, guess I won't be watching the U S open this year.

Shouldn't the thinking be, he made it to the finals he must have a chance to win. All that should matter is, it's an NHL calibre team.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

Re: the Hulsizer no show at the games...

It seems to me that Hulsizer has played his final card in this, he won't move on his portion of the purchase price.

This likely comes down to two options, yes?

1. NHL reduces the purchase price

and / or

2. CoG comes up with a different form of subsidy which Goldwater doesn't argue with.

I still believe Bettman will close the deal in Phoenix. He's too arrogant and stubborn not to.

To me, 1) is really the only option left (short of finding another buyer). If Phoenix is really the coveted market that the BoG wants, why not use some of their new TV deal cash to subsidize this deal and lower the purchase price? They seem to think (or 'anonymous BoG member' seems to think) that it's such an important cog in national TV exposure, so why not invest some money to keep it?

2) seems unlikely. It seems like the longer this drags on for, the more likely it is that CoG draws up something even more illegal that draws Goldwater's ire.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

I didnt leave anything out, quite the opposite. I left too much in. I should have ONLY left this part in the quote: a good friend of mine was having drinks with 2 TNSE lawyers at a local bar.

It was more of a joke about if it's said in a bar, it must be true. Sorry for the misunderstanding, i didnt mean anything personally directed towards you.

I believe TNSE is working on a tentative agreement to get a team, whether or not it's the Coyotes or Thrashers or expansion. In fact I am in favor of Winnipeg getting their own team, i would just prefer them to not have the Coyotes. I think a Coyotes/Jets rivalry would be a good thing.

I was even interviewed in the Winnipeg Sun and said the same thing

No problem.

 

[Koss]

Why can anybody ever answer why that is? Why does it matter where your opposition is from? If you're a tennis player from outer Mongolia that made it to the finals of the U S open. Would tennis fans say, Mongolia? Meh, guess I won't be watching the U S open this year.

Because the NHL as spent the last 20 years marketing hockey to people who don't like hockey.

 

[RAgIn]

Well played sir.

In terms of the Arizona Republican article, why should MH show up? That is stupid. He has done his part. He is ready to perform under the agreement. It is all on the CoG's shoulders right now. There is nothing he should be doing to change a deal he made. If the CoG cannot perform its part, the team leaves. I don't blame MH or the NHL for the relocation. Heck, I don't blame the CoG if it decides the price was too high. I do blame the GWI to a degree but really it is more of not approving with their tactics. As a non-profit, public interest group, I hold them to a higher standard than basic extortion.

Agree to some degree. Perhaps he's just tired of the whole drama, and giving false hope that the deal is closing. How many times has he showed up to the rink and said the deal will close in two weeks? Plus, it must be hard in knowing that your so close to owning an NHL team. And, the constant media attention and questions from the fans must be a killer. I can't blame him by staying in Chicago and waiting things out. But, with him not going to a game, it simply can't please the fans or the local media. We can agree on that?

 

[goyotes]

One has to wonder as to what kind of set up this meeting will procure? Q&A? Will the media have a say? Should be interesting.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/op...-sit-down-this-must-be-serious-120264899.html

I really would like to see GWI answer some substantive questions about why the believe the deal is unconstitutional. They are challenging it, and have the burden of proof. The reason why I would like to see this is because the GWI has, a number of times, stated things that aren't entirely false, but aren't true either (ala the CoG already having the right to charge for parking). I wish the CoG would have legal counsel available to question the GWI on the documents and challenge whether this violates the Turken test, or just doesn't jive with the GWI's view of corporate welfare generally.

If the GWI is able to show this is truly a constitutional issue when put to some kind of fact checking test, then good for them. If the GWI falls back on this is "bad for the taxpayer" then the tide will change against them. It is one thing to enforce the constitution, it is another thing to force your ideology upon the taxpayers. I have some general sense of how my fellow Arizona citizens will look upon the later issue, and there will be a serious backlash if this is what the entire fight turns out to be about.

I guess what I would like to see is just how many bullets in their respective guns the CoG and the GWI have on the merits of the legality of the transaction. My fear is the CoG will play right into the GWI's hands and continue the argument on the "policy" behind doing this deal versus not doing the deal, and never touch on the question of whether the deal is constitutional. Frankly, that should be both the CoG's and GWI's only concern. However, all we have heard is unsupported conclusions going either way.

If I were advising the CoG, I would have one or two points to make that blow a hole through statements the GWI has made as to the legality of the transaction. I would keep hammering those points and use those little victories to discredit the remainder of the GWI's arguments. I doubt the CoG will be willing or able to do that, however.

 

[Confucius]

I'm not sure a relocation to Winnipeg is such a great idea. I don't know.. it seems like moving from a metro of 5 million people to one with 700K is more of a downgrade than an improvement. As a business, the NHL needs to think long-term. What decision would best benefit the league 5, 10 years from now. Yeah, the NHL could play it safe and move to a dedicated small hockey city, or it can be ambitious and try a market 7-10 times as large and see if it works there. I believe Houston, Seattle, and Kansas City all should be considered before a safe, but not as profitable in the long term city such as Winnipeg is. Winnipeg should be last resort IMO, it seems like more of a safety net than an ambitious and progressive investment. Just my two cents.

Believe me if the league had a potential owner for another U S location, they'd take it. The only reason the league is going to Winnipeg is nobody else wants to pay 170 million for the team. Don't for a minute think the league is doing Winnipeg any favours.

 

[goyotes]

Agree to some degree. Perhaps he's just tired of the whole drama, and giving false hope that the deal is closing. How many times has he showed up to the rink and said the deal will close in two weeks? Plus, it must be hard in knowing that your so close to owning an NHL team. And, the constant media attention and questions from the fans must be a killer. I can't blame him by staying in Chicago and waiting things out. But, with him not going to a game, it simply can't please the fans or the local media. We can agree on that?

Sure. I will be at the game tonight and I would rather he be there than not. I'm sure the players would rather he be there than not. But I don't blame him for not coming. If I were him, I would look at it like the CoG strung me out and I probably would have looked to bail a long time ago. The deal, while tempting, isn't the greatest deal when you start from the assumption that you are buying an entity with a history of losing money.