Rumor: Phaneuf About to Sign 7 Year/$50 Million Deal

[The Apologist]

Sorry?

Everytime I turn around I see folks pointing to the only 15 ESG against and attribute it solely to him being on the ice.

It's fair game to point out how little we have scored when he has been on the ice.

I mean common now, Dion is pushing for the 5th highest cap hit among all D, that's not defencive D money, that's two way All star D money.

Its too bad we couldn't still tack on an extra 5 years at 1 mil at the end eh?

 

[likeabosski]

Chicago won a Cup with Campbell making 7+ million.

And what happened to Brian Campbell in the summer after they won the cup? Traded. Brent Seabrook was only making $3.5m that season. Duncan Keith $1.475m. Duncan Keith's RFA contract expired that summer. These two guys emerged as Chicago's top pairing. So they traded Brian Campbell in order to make cap room for Duncan Keith.

Dion Phaneuf wants a No-Trade/No-Move clause. So we can't even get rid of him when necessary without his permission. This is the Muskoka Five all over again.

 

[Faltorvo]

So why was he invited to the orientation camp, but Cody Franson wasn't??

I guess it depends on how long of a list you plan on making and then calling them the best.

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

Sorry?

Everytime I turn around I see folks pointing to the only 15 ESG against and attribute it solely to him being on the ice.

It's fair game to point out how little we have scored when he has been on the ice.

I mean common now, Dion is pushing for the 5th highest cap hit among all D, that's not defencive D money, that's two way All star D money.

Sure it's fair game, it's also completely meaningless without context. Show me a list of other dmen and compare that same stat. Even then, it's almost meaningless because it's only half a season's worth of data!

 

[The Apologist]

Dion is going to grow into the role. Sundin wasn't the best captain early on, he grew into the role.

Captains roles are overrated anyways. Its the GM's job to acquire the talent, coaches job to get the team going. Players job to do their jobs.

I don't know, from what Ive seen and heard, Phaneuf seems to be doing just fine as Captain.

 

[bleeney]

Why should we look for a better player to play with Dion when he is the issue. If he was making 4M a year then he can stay, at 7M per we still need to find a D man who can cover up for him and to me that makes little sense.

How is Dion the issue? He plays the toughest minutes, going up against Crosby, Ovechkin, Tavares, Staal. Toews, Getzlaf and Perry etc.... shift after shift, and despite that, he (and Gunnar) are on the ice for less goals against than any of our other blueliners, who mostly play sheltered minutes against 2nd, 3rd and 4th liners.

Here are their even strength GA numbers:

Phaneuf: 20
Gunnarsson: 20
Ranger: 23
Gardiner: 25
Franson: 30
Rielly: 30

Dion and Gunnar have done their job well this year, it's the rest of the blueline that's the problem.

 

[The Apologist]

And what happened to Brian Campbell in the summer after they won the cup? Traded. Brent Seabrook was only making $3.5m that season. Duncan Keith $1.475m. Duncan Keith's RFA contract expired that summer. These two guys emerged as Chicago's top pairing. So they traded Brian Campbell in order to make cap room for Duncan Keith.

Dion Phaneuf wants a No-Trade/No-Move clause. So we can't even get rid of him when necessary without his permission.

Duncan Keith is signed until 2023 with a NMC, what happens when he starts to falter? Funny how you'd use him as your example.

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

I guess it depends on how long of a list you plan on making and then calling them the best.

That's correct. It's subjective. So we are trying to quantify a player's worth using qualitative measures - it's not easy, or very practical IMO.

 

[Faltorvo]

Dion is "Extorting" money from the Leafs? Wow, that's a bit harsh. Sure, he's using his position to his advantage, is he not allowed to do that? What is he supposed to do, take the first offer no matter what it is? Both sides are AGREEING to this cap hit. Don't you think that Nonis, Loiselle, and the other PROFESSIONALS who manage salaries as part of their JOB would let him go if he was truly "extorting" the team? Are you trying to say that he wouldn't get 7M on the open market? 7+??

7m x 7 yes probably by a desperate/bad team.

By a team that is a true cup contender and one that keeps their cap management under control, my answer would be, I highly doubt it, not at 7 x 7.

I look at some Stars and team leaders that have just inked under these new rules

Datsyuk 7.5m

Both Sedins at 7m

three players i would argue hold more market value and are better players then Dion.

 

[topched]

IIRC, Peitro just sold 4 UFA years at a rough hit 0f 7.2m

Datsyuk 7.5m

Both Sedins at 7m

just to name a few of the leagues top players.

Yep, Datsyuk and Sedins are older than Phaneuf, with their decline coming quickly. I would say the Sedins is fair and Datsyuk is probably a bargain. Tough comparable because of they're Fwds too.

Pietro you're right on, 4 yrs UFA but also 3 yrs RFA that brings it down.

If you look at Suter and Letang... Suter is 13 years at 7.7 mill hit... Letang at a 7.25 hit and those are old era deals where you could tack on low salary yrs... Sutter makes 2,1,1 in his final 3 years.

I'd take Dions at 7x7 over that deal, even though Suter is a better dman

 

[Gallagbi]

And what happened to Brian Campbell in the summer after they won the cup? Traded. Brent Seabrook was only making $3.5m that season. Duncan Keith $1.475m. Duncan Keith's RFA contract expired that summer. These two guys emerged as Chicago's top pairing. So they traded Brian Campbell in order to make cap room for Duncan Keith.

Dion Phaneuf wants a No-Trade/No-Move clause. So we can't even get rid of him when necessary without his permission.

The vast majority of players with NMC/NC move when they are asked to. Campbell had a modified NTC as well.

As for Keith and Seabrook, most winning teams will have players on good deals. The Hawks also had Huet backing up at a large cap hit as well.

It shows you can win overpaying some players.

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

7m x 7 yes probably by a desperate/bad team.

By a team that is a true cup contender and one that keeps their cap management under control, my answer would be, I highly doubt it, not at 7 x 7.

So, in your opinion, a cup contender would choose to let Phaneuf walk at his current price. OK, so how does that hypothetical cup contender replace Phaneuf's contributions?

It still amazes me that people are willing to get rid of Phaneuf for 1/70th of the team's cap. It actaully blows my mind.

 

[The Apologist]

The vast majority of players with NMC/NC move when they are asked to. Campbell had a modified NTC as well.

As for Keith and Seabrook, most winning teams will have players on good deals. The Hawks also had 'Bulin backing up at a large cap hit as well.

It shows you can win overpaying some players.

Again, Keith's contract is a NMC until 2023 (unfortunately we can no longer tack on extra years at tiny numbers to bring the hit down)

 

[likeabosski]

The vast majority of players with NMC/NC move when they are asked to. Campbell had a modified NTC as well.

As for Keith and Seabrook, most winning teams will have players on good deals. The Hawks also had 'Bulin backing up at a large cap hit as well.

It shows you can win overpaying some players.

Mats Sundin and the rest of the Muskoka Five refused to be traded before the deadline in 2008... this is the kind of culture we have in Toronto

 

[Gallagbi]

Again, Keith's contract is a NMC until 2023 (unfortunately we can no longer tack on extra years at tiny numbers to bring the hit down)

He was on a different contract the first time they won the Cup, which is the Brian Campbell team I mentioned.

 

[DD03]

Mats Sundin and the rest of the Muskoka Five refused to be traded before the deadline in 2008... this is the kind of culture we have in Toronto

Had in Toronto. There isn't a single shred of that team that is still here.

 

[Gallagbi]

Mats Sundin and the rest of the Muskoka Five refused to be traded before the deadline in 2008... this is the kind of culture we have in Toronto

.... Or the kind of poor asset management that GM was known for in his last term as general manager.

Like I said, most teams are able to move players with NTCs and last I heard the hold up on Phaneuf is the modifications on his NTC.

 

[DD03]

I would've told JFJ to **** off too though

 

[notdoneyet]

So, in your opinion, a cup contender would choose to let Phaneuf walk at his current price. OK, so how does that hypothetical cup contender replace Phaneuf's contributions?

It still amazes me that people are willing to get rid of Phaneuf for 1/70th of the team's cap. It actaully blows my mind.

its the same half dozen haters that keep posting crap. you should know better than to argue with them - they will never listen to reason and always put their own spin on things when you make a good point

they would be willing to trade dion for draft picks and prospects
and hope in 5 years these same prospects/picks would be as good as dion
and then if they are trade them because they cost too much to sign.

 

[Gallagbi]

I would've told JFJ to **** off too though

It was Fletcher as GM when they all stayed.

 

[PokeCheck101]

Okay take Leafs goaltending out of the equation.

I guarantee you Suter, Weber and Chara will all be in the Olympics as the Best dmen in the World and automatics to represent their countries.

Will Phaneuf ? If not why not?

Phaneuf is not even considered among the best Canadian born Dmen let alone against the best that you mentioned. But getting paid among the best in the World seems like an easy decision for some.

Call up Stevie Y and company and ask them. For Pete ask already, many leaf faithful on here have already answered this question for you.

 

[The Blue Devil]

His possession stats are quite bad, and while they're tops on the team after adjusting for zone starts and quality of competition/teammates, they're still well below league-average and no different from Gunnarsson's. Like others have said, his very low GA/20 numbers are due to having exceptionally high on-ice sv%, i.e. great goaltending.

Then why isn't it the same for everyone else?

Suter plays in front of Harding who is/was having an exceptional year and his GA/20 weren't as good as Phaneufs.

 

[DD03]

It was Fletcher as GM when they all stayed.

I feel like Fletcher called the wrong players to ask them

 

[The Apologist]

He was on a different contract the first time they won the Cup, which is the Brian Campbell team I mentioned.

Yes, but he did win last year, so its yet another bad contract on a contender, guess I should have clarified that with my post. My apologies

 

[Faltorvo]

Yep, Datsyuk and Sedins are older than Phaneuf, with their decline coming quickly. I would say the Sedins is fair and Datsyuk is probably a bargain. Tough comparable because of they're Fwds too.

Pietro you're right on, 4 yrs UFA but also 3 yrs RFA that brings it down.

If you look at Suter and Letang... Suter is 13 years at 7.7 mill hit... Letang at a 7.25 hit and those are old era deals where you could tack on low salary yrs... Sutter makes 2,1,1 in his final 3 years.

I'd take Dions at 7x7 over that deal, even though Suter is a better dman

Sorry, I have to correct you, Letang signed under these rules, the new rules. He is being paid 7.25m per across the board for all 8 years, now if we are going to put age into the argument, Pitt is buying 2 more prime years from Tang, he is 2 years younger then Dion.

As for the age of Dats,Sedins

Dats inked for only 3 years, the way he is playing, it sure looks like they are buying prime hockey

Sedins for only 4 years, once again looks like purchasing prime years. All those team leaders could have hit the open market and got more $ and term if they wanted to.