Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Youth movement is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face"

[Turin]

Alright Alvin

Hoglander, Lekkerimaki and a 2nd

 

[MayorofWBS]

Going to be funny when we keep Jake, miss the playoffs and let him walk in the offseason.

....and still keep Mike Sullivan around after another failed season

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Kills me to watch Puustinen used to dump and chase, liberate him like Lafferty and Blueger. I want to see what he can do with a team that is going to use him correctly.

Going to be funny when we keep Jake, miss the playoffs and let him walk in the offseason.

....and still keep Mike Sullivan around after another failed season

Possible too that they just win enough to still make Dubas think they're contenders, signs Jake to what he wants, then they still miss and now the cap is even more f***ed.

 

[Zbynek]

Anyway, it's hilarious to think of Patrick Roy coaching the Lou-led Isles. This should be good.

At least the NYI org has the balls to make a change after losing ground in the playoff race. Many of us (me included) scoffed at Knoblauch coming into Edmonton but look how that turned out. Tocchet leading the #1 team in the NHL right now. Momentum is very real in hockey - the Pens of all teams know this but yet here we are with the same doofus behind the bench.

When I heard the Roy news my instant reaction was wtf as well, but then I slept on it and now I'm thinking more like: Maybe we, the Penguins, shouldn't throw stones when it comes to news about coaching changes.

 

[deakka]

Alright Alvin

Hoglander, Lekkerimaki and a 2nd

dont think i would accept any deal for Guentzel w/o a 1st coming back, replacing the one we have to give SJ (albeit it looks like the one we give to SJ will be higher)

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

At least the NYI org has the balls to make a change after losing ground in the playoff race. Many of us (me included) scoffed at Knoblauch coming into Edmonton but look how that turned out. Tocchet leading the #1 team in the NHL right now. Momentum is very real in hockey - the Pens of all teams know this but yet here we are with the same doofus behind the bench.

When I heard the Roy news my instant reaction was wtf as well, but then I slept on it and now I'm thinking more like: Maybe we, the Penguins, shouldn't throw stones when it comes to news about coaching changes.

Roy's a headcase and I eagerly await he and Lou butting heads, but yeah, agree overall. It's literal years beyond Sullivan's expiration, but whatever. I don't care anymore. This organization's doodoo.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Man, that new coach points bump would sure come in handy right about now…

 

[Malkinstheman]

Man, that new coach points bump would sure come in handy right about now…

Nah its just a mirage. Anything could happen with a new coach. They could even not get out out the first round for 5 years!

 

[66-30-33]

Going to be funny when we keep Jake, miss the playoffs and let him walk in the offseason.

....and still keep Mike Sullivan around after another failed season

Don’t forget trading our 1st for a rental and losing next seasons lottery pick to SanJose.

 

[Gurglesons]

Going to be funny when we keep Jake, miss the playoffs and let him walk in the offseason.

....and still keep Mike Sullivan around after another failed season

It’s hilarious how bad of decision making there has been since a team won two cups in a row from multiple GMs.

 

[Epic Neal Time]

I like Hoglander in a Guentzel return because they feel like they're similarly molded. Hoglander has a shot and strong hockey sense. He's pacing for mid-20s in goals with 3rd/4th line minutes, though his shooting % is unsustainable.

If you did 1st + prospect + Hoglander + Kuzmenko, that's not an awful return.

You could flip the 1st if needed, plus a Pickering or something for a younger piece that's on the market, like a Chychrun, or Mittlestadt, you could still compete this year and position yourselves better long-term. Underachieving teams like Buffalo, Minnesota, St. Louis, and Ottawa could be targeted in similar deals.

 

[chethejet]

Pens to me trade Jake get a nice package. Fire Sullivan in the off season. finish in top 10 draft position get lottery luck and move up to take the RD or center. As to roster moves, Pens stuck with Rust and Geno next year and have to move them after next year for picks. Karlsson after next year moved as well for a nice package. Pens get picks back and then draft and rebuild as they go. But this roster even with smart moves is not a cup contender. Dubas has to end this and begin the next chapter.

 

[Ulf5]

I like Hoglander in a Guentzel return because they feel like they're similarly molded. Hoglander has a shot and strong hockey sense. He's pacing for mid-20s in goals with 3rd/4th line minutes, though his shooting % is unsustainable.

If you did 1st + prospect + Hoglander + Kuzmenko, that's not an awful return.

You could flip the 1st if needed, plus a Pickering or something for a younger piece that's on the market, like a Chychrun, or Mittlestadt, you could still compete this year and position yourselves better long-term. Underachieving teams like Buffalo, Minnesota, St. Louis, and Ottawa could be targeted in similar deals.

12 goals already only averaging a lil over 11:00 minutes per game is quite impressive. What I gather from Nucks fans is he competes hards, battles along the boards and wins. Certainly seems like someone we could use. And someone Sully wouldn't seem to find fault with and bench for eternity. At 23 already, he'd be a sweetener in a deal obviously and not a main piece.

 

[Gurglesons]

I like Hoglander in a Guentzel return because they feel like they're similarly molded. Hoglander has a shot and strong hockey sense. He's pacing for mid-20s in goals with 3rd/4th line minutes, though his shooting % is unsustainable.

If you did 1st + prospect + Hoglander + Kuzmenko, that's not an awful return.

You could flip the 1st if needed, plus a Pickering or something for a younger piece that's on the market, like a Chychrun, or Mittlestadt, you could still compete this year and position yourselves better long-term. Underachieving teams like Buffalo, Minnesota, St. Louis, and Ottawa could be targeted in similar deals.

I don’t think Vancouver will move two forwards on their roster for Jake. One of Hogs or Kuzy. I would do it for Hogs not Kuzy.

 

[Andy99]

This is from a poster on another site…hard not to agree with this

“The Penguins are 14th out of 16 teams in goal scoring, and are 25th out of 32 in the league. None of the teams below them in goal scoring are playoff teams. The next 4 teams above them in goal scoring in the league...are also NOT in the playoffs. 43 games into last year, they had 8 more goals for at this point, which was 10th in the conference, and they were 19th overall in the league in goal scoring.

One may look at that statement and say "All the more reason to keep Guentzel," or you could say, this team is behind last year's pace in goals for and points (about 3-4 points behind last years pace) with Guentzel in the lineup this year. Guentzel is not the problem, but he isn't magically the solution, either.

Now on the flip side, the Penguins have the FEWEST goals against in the conference, and 3rd lowest overall in the league. Compared to last year at this time, where they had the 8th fewest goals against in the conference and 14th fewest in the league.

What this tells me is, the key to this team moving forward is playing lock-down defensive hockey. Have you seen much this year that makes one think this team can play consistent defensive hockey? All the odd-man rushes and blown leads pretty loudly shout no to me.”

 

[Empoleon8771]

I like Hoglander in a Guentzel return because they feel like they're similarly molded. Hoglander has a shot and strong hockey sense. He's pacing for mid-20s in goals with 3rd/4th line minutes, though his shooting % is unsustainable.

If you did 1st + prospect + Hoglander + Kuzmenko, that's not an awful return.

You could flip the 1st if needed, plus a Pickering or something for a younger piece that's on the market, like a Chychrun, or Mittlestadt, you could still compete this year and position yourselves better long-term. Underachieving teams like Buffalo, Minnesota, St. Louis, and Ottawa could be targeted in similar deals.

I don’t like it all that much because they’re not getting a super high upside player back, but Raty, Hoglander and a late 1st seems pretty comparable in value to the Hall trade to the Coyotes (Bahl, Merkley, Schnarr, a mid 1st and a 3rd). So based on value, I think you can pretty easily argue that’s reasonable.

Add on Garland to make the money work and I think that deal could be reasonable.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think there's a Neal-Hornqvist kinda move out there that keeps the team treading water if Jake's dealt tbh. Just try and load up on as many pieces for the future as possible imo. You're gonna be losing a Jake trade as far as the here and now goes with pretty much 100% certainty.

 

[cygnus47]

This is from a poster on another site…hard not to agree with this

“The Penguins are 14th out of 16 teams in goal scoring, and are 25th out of 32 in the league. None of the teams below them in goal scoring are playoff teams. The next 4 teams above them in goal scoring in the league...are also NOT in the playoffs. 43 games into last year, they had 8 more goals for at this point, which was 10th in the conference, and they were 19th overall in the league in goal scoring.

One may look at that statement and say "All the more reason to keep Guentzel," or you could say, this team is behind last year's pace in goals for and points (about 3-4 points behind last years pace) with Guentzel in the lineup this year. Guentzel is not the problem, but he isn't magically the solution, either.

Now on the flip side, the Penguins have the FEWEST goals against in the conference, and 3rd lowest overall in the league. Compared to last year at this time, where they had the 8th fewest goals against in the conference and 14th fewest in the league.

What this tells me is, the key to this team moving forward is playing lock-down defensive hockey. Have you seen much this year that makes one think this team can play consistent defensive hockey? All the odd-man rushes and blown leads pretty loudly shout no to me.”

Yeah, our GA is not from good defense, we’ve had great goaltending since December. And all of this talk of blowing it up is just a waste of time. If Dubas traded Guentzel and unilaterally ended the Sid/Geno era, it would be the ballsiest thing a Pens GM has done in a long time. Does anyone really believe it’s a possibility?

 

[SEALBound]

Yeah, our GA is not from good defense, we’ve had great goaltending since December. And all of this talk of blowing it up is just a waste of time. If Dubas traded Guentzel and unilaterally ended the Sid/Geno era, it would be the ballsiest thing a Pens GM has done in a long time. Does anyone really believe it’s a possibility?

No I do not. The Sid/Geno era will not be "done" if they trade Guentzel. If that is the case, one of two things will happen:

1. High-profile FA signings
2. High-profile trade.

The FA route is tough and I don't think it comes with merely signing a few players. I imagine that comes with a swapping of a couple of players (such as Smith out, someone else in). There are a couple of teams that do not have a Sid/Geno to contend with that are in an odd transitionary period where they haven't really solidified where they are at in life - Calgary, Montreal, Ottawa, and St Louis, for example. I could see Dubas working something out with a couple players that helps swing "status" one way or another. For example, Calgary is a mess - I bet you could get a SCREAMING deal on Huberdeau. I think that guy is in Kessel status right now. Calgary is not happy, Huberdeau is not happy. He didn't magically forget how to play hockey. I think you bring him in somewhere else on a "reset" and give him someone like Sid...I have no trouble seeing him back to 70-80pts.

The "ammo" for such moves would come from selling this year at the TDL - Guentzel, Smith, Neds, and potentially a depth piece. Then I think you need to start taking a BIG look at youth in the system to solidify spots. For example, no more Nietos and Acciaris. You call up Poulin and Puustinen instead. Next year, we might be able to pull one or two more guys, in addition to anyone we get in a return.

"But SEAL, you always say "name names!", why don't YOU name names!" Sure you bet.

To Calgary: Ryan Graves, Noel Acciari
To Pittsburgh: Huberdeau ($ 1 million retained), Dube (yes, knowing his situation full well).

To Arizona: Riley Smith
To Pittsburgh: 2024 ARI 2nd

To Vancouver: Guentzel, 2025 3rd
To Pittsburgh: Lekkerimaki, Hoglander, 2024 1st

To Toronto: Nedelkovich
To Pittsburgh: 2024 NYI 3rd

To Colorado: Matt Nieto
To Pittsburgh: 2025 COL 4th

Going into 2024 FA:

Huberdeau-Crosby-Rakell
DOC-Malkin-Rust
Hoglander-Eller-Dube

Pettersson-Karlsson
XXXXX-Letang
XXXXX-XXXXX

Jarry

In this scenario, there's still about $12mil to play with to get a top 4 dman, BUG, and bolster the scoring. I think there are a couple guys in FA that could be under the radar good signings - Debrusk, Roslovic, Beauvillier, Sprong, Barbanov, Kubalik, Duclair. Then you're higher profile guys - Toffoli, Bertuzzi, Zucker, Lindholm, or Tarasenko.

You could fit any one (or potentially 2) or them in there. This also doesn't include the potential of Poulin, Yager, or Lekkeimaki (or the presumed high end prospect you get from the Guentzel deal) making the roster.

Another wild scenario;

Huberdeau-Crosby-Malkin
Rakell-Lindholm-Rust
Zucker-Yager-DOC
Hoglander-Eller-Dube

Pettersson-Letang
Grzelcyk-Karlsson
POJ-Shea

TJ-Blomqvist

It fits. That's a complete revamp and changes the entire dynamics of the roster. Worst case...you could swap Yager with Malkin.

 

[Andy99]

Too much change at the deadline will only hurt, not help…only one or two players should be swapped out…we can swap out Jake in a hockey trade provided his replacement and others on the current roster pick up the finishing slake…that’s one of our two major issues…

 

[SEALBound]

Too much change at the deadline will only hurt, not help…only one or two players should be swapped out…we can swap out Jake in a hockey trade provided his replacement and others on the current roster pick up the finishing slake…that’s one of our two major issues…

If you are trading Jake, that is the white flag on the season. I say, get what you can while you can. What's the downside to "only hurt"? As is, we are presumably heading to a 10-18th OV finish. Worst case, we really go downhill and we end up...8-10ov? What's the problem with that?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The last like three-ish seasons have been one big white flag.

 

[Andy99]

If you are trading Jake, that is the white flag on the season. I say, get what you can while you can. What's the downside to "only hurt"? As is, we are presumably heading to a 10-18th OV finish. Worst case, we really go downhill and we end up...8-10ov? What's the problem with that?

Yeah, I was presuming we trade Jake even though we haven’t given up on the season and still have WC pretensions…see, I don’t see it as a white flag if you, for example, trade Jake to VAN and one piece coming back is Hoglander…he has 12 goals on the season and fights for puck and he’d probably get more ice time and a better role here considering VaN has way more offensive talent…

 

[SEALBound]

The last like three-ish seasons have been one big white flag.

It's tough to win a Stanley Cup.

That's why I was regularly harsh on people who seemed to go out of their way to bemoan their own existence during the Cup runs. Especially 2017.

Yeah, I was presuming we trade Jake even though we haven’t given up on the season and still have WC pretensions…see, I don’t see it as a white flag if you, for example, trade Jake to VAN and one piece coming back is Hoglander…he has 12 goals on the season and fights for puck and he’d probably get more ice time and a better role here considering VaN has way more offensive talent…

Yeah, he would be a nice piece to get back. If we are struggling for WC spot now, I'm not sure out "Guentzel out, Hoglander in" changes that status. i would send Jake, Neds, and Smith out at the very least and hope for the best with whatever returns we get.

 

[Andy99]

It's tough to win a Stanley Cup.

That's why I was regularly harsh on people who seemed to go out of their way to bemoan their own existence during the Cup runs. Especially 2017.

Yeah, he would be a nice piece to get back. If we are struggling for WC spot now, I'm not sure out "Guentzel out, Hoglander in" changes that status. i would send Jake, Neds, and Smith out at the very least and hope for the best with whatever returns we get.

May not but it’s pretty clear by now that we need changes in top six and on the PP to compete with our lack of finishing and complete dogshit of a PP…and I definitely don’t want to take on Huberdeau’s ridiculous contract even with a small amount retained