Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Youth movement is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face"

[Gurglesons]

Graves is an issue, but he’s been fine outside of not being able to fit a top four role. We are likely stuck with him and he owns up to his mistakes.

I have faith he can be a useful defenseman. Just not sure he’s a top four fit.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Graves is an issue, but he’s been fine outside of not being able to fit a top four role. We are likely stuck with him and he owns up to his mistakes.

I have faith he can be a useful defenseman. Just not sure he’s a top four fit.

Certainly not with Letang or Karlsson as his partner. As others have mentioned, seems like Rutta would be a nice fit with Graves.

 

[Zbynek]

Jake's got no reason to accept $8.5 million AAV here imo. Team's been on a steady and consistent decline, and it ain't getting better. This is his last shot at a colossal contract, so why would he take a pretty dramatic pay cut from market value--to stick around and bro out with Sid for a couple more years on a team barely hovering around a playoff spot?

I dunno. I still think he gets re-signed here, but I don't think it makes sense for either camp to get a deal done. Just get a haul for him at the deadline and let someone else worry about working out the $9+ million AAV deal or something. Move on.

8.5 aav here is the same as 9.7 somewhere else with the extra year. I don't think Jake makes a significantly higher amount going to market.

 

[SEALBound]

If he's rejecting a $8.5-9mil deal now, it's in your best interest to trade him for as much as you can. If it's not a trade and sign, you can circle back on July 1st.
I think $9.5mil is right at that level of move on. If he wants 10.5-11mil, you have to move on. $8-9.5 is a definite resign.

Looking at Vancouver's cap sheet next year, it's rough when looking at how to fit Jake in at $9-10mil. I don't think we want Kuzmenko back but I do think I would entertain Garland or Mikheyev. I think they'd prefer to keep Garland so Mikheyev might be more reason. Something like Mikheyev, Lekkimiaki, 1st* (Conditional on playoff performance) for Guentzel, 3rd would could be something I see working. That's right in line with the Horvat trade from last year.

Rakell-Crosby-Rust
DOC-Malkin-Mikheyev
Smith-Eller-Puustinen

Good enough to finish out the year.

Then I really push them to try to fit Yager and Lekkerimaki in next year. I'd look to send Smith to a team needing top 6 support. Again, Arizona if they are in it has an embarrassing amount of 2nds. Easy. I'd offer up Nieto, Acciari, Carter, Rudwedel, POJ, and Graves as well (with Graves being unlikely obviously) and try to get picks, prospects, or young players in similar situations (such as POJ for Dube).

Yager-Crosby-Rust
DOC-Malkin-Lekkerimaki
Rakell-3C-Mikheyev
Poulin-Eller-Puustinen

That said, we'd have an enormous amount of space in that case so you could chase a big fish or find better scoring support. You might...MIGHT...be able to swing a compelling deal for Huberdeau in this case.

Huberdeau, 1st, Dube for Smith+POJ (or sub Smith for Rakell or Mikheyev).

Adding 2 additional 1sts, Lekkermiaki, Dube, and Huberdeau would be an interesting way to revamp the roster.

Huberdeau-Crosby-Rust
DOC-Malkin-Rakell
Dube-Yager-Mikheyev
Poulin-Eller-Lekkerimaki

 

[Andy99]

Mark Madden: Unless the Penguins really heat up, Kyle Dubas must trade Jake Guentzel

The NHL trade deadline is March 8. The Pittsburgh Penguins must do a lot better between now and then to justify not trading winger Jake Guentzel, who is a free agent at season’s end. For me, the minimum level would be top two in the Metropolitan Division, a reborn power

triblive.com

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think the ball's gonna be in Jake's court at the end. He'll make it through the TDL and rest of the season--however long or short that may be--and then he'll get to decide if he wants to chase absolute top dollar and/or contend, or if he wants to just hang out making bank here on a franchise circling the drain, waiting for Sid's retirement before blowing things up.

I will say that seeing Madden wanting Jake traded has given me second thoughts on my stance though.

 

[tom_servo]

It would be nice to get some standings definition before the trade deadline but the Pens don't play another divisional opponent until Feb 20 (Isles).

Only five games against Eastern playoff teams between now and the deadline.(Panthers x2, Isles, Flyers, Caps)

Dubas' analytics team needs to rely on vibes.

 

[Andy99]

It would be nice to get some standings definition before the trade deadline but the Pens don't play another divisional opponent until Feb 20 (Isles).

Only five games against Eastern playoff teams between now and the deadline.(Panthers x2, Isles, Flyers, Caps)

Dubas' analytics team needs to rely on vibes.

Probably and here’s what the “vibes” are saying: this team is mid lol…

What will happen next to the mid-pack Penguins?

The Pens are right in the middle of the league

www.pensburgh.com

 

[tom_servo]

Probably and here’s what the “vibes” are saying: this team is mid lol…

What will happen next to the mid-pack Penguins?

The Pens are right in the middle of the league

www.pensburgh.com

Yes, I can see the standings.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Scheduling has felt very odd and nonsensical all season tbh. Days that aren't holidays with zero games. Random days with all 32 teams playing. Stretches where a team plays a few games across a two week period etc.

 

[Turin]

It came out of Kyper & Bourne podcast…

I'm sure they got great sources to Dubas, who they skewered on his way out of Toronto in defense of Shanahan. lmao

 

[Josey Wales]

Mark Madden: Unless the Penguins really heat up, Kyle Dubas must trade Jake Guentzel

The NHL trade deadline is March 8. The Pittsburgh Penguins must do a lot better between now and then to justify not trading winger Jake Guentzel, who is a free agent at season’s end. For me, the minimum level would be top two in the Metropolitan Division, a reborn power

triblive.com

Now Posting Flounder McHeartattack

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I'm sure they got great sources to Dubas, who they skewered on his way out of Toronto in defense of Shanahan. lmao

Yeah, Kyper and Bourne clearly don't have connections to Dubas. Neither does Seravelli, who openly speculated whether Dubas would wait for Ottawa to be settled.

Friedman was the most accurate during the Dubas pursuit.

I know not everyone likes Friedman, but for my money, he's the most responsible and plugged in news breaker in the hockey world, especially with McKenzie retired.

 

[Pancakes]

Graves is an issue, but he’s been fine outside of not being able to fit a top four role. We are likely stuck with him and he owns up to his mistakes.

I have faith he can be a useful defenseman. Just not sure he’s a top four fit.

Sometimes it takes a year for guys adjusting to a new situation too.

Remember how bad Gonchar was his first year here?

Yeah, Kyper and Bourne clearly don't have connections to Dubas. Neither does Seravelli, who openly speculated whether Dubas would wait for Ottawa to be settled.

Friedman was the most accurate during the Dubas pursuit.

I know not everyone likes Friedman, but for my money, he's the most responsible and plugged in news breaker in the hockey world, especially with McKenzie retired.

I've kinda soured on Seravalli. He definitely has more sources than like a Rossi but I feel like he gets a lot wrong.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I've kinda soured on Seravalli. He definitely has more sources than like a Rossi but I feel like he gets a lot wrong.

Yeah, something's happened with Seravelli where he's just started throwing crap at the wall.

I think Rossi and Yohe have some player sources, but they do a terrible job of cutting through the BS for the actual story. Dejan is the same way with anything related to Mario. There's a kernel of truth in there, but it's covered in biased nonsense.

Edit: Seravelli said this less than 48 hours before Dubas was announced.

 

[Turin]

FWIW I think Guentzel would probably take 8.5 over 8 if that was on the table. Friedman said this all comes down to where Pittsburgh thinks it's at - if they don't think they're going to meaningfully compete then Guentzel probably won't want to be there and Pittsburgh might not want to give him that kind of contract, but if they're going to try Guentzel and the team would probably be open to it. It's not about money. I think that's the most common sense take on what's happening. Really awkward place to be in the standings for it - but I just don't think they'll deal him unless, say, Rutherford REALLY wants him and is willing to sell the farm.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Look, no way it's 8. That's hilarious. 8.5 is already too low for his points.

We'll be lucky if it's under 9.5 regardless if PIT thinks they can compete, the front office obviously feels the team can compete. See: the decisions this year.

Now, i think his points are based off sid. And he isn't worth resigning for market value. It's jarry but as a forward.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Look, no way it's 8. That's hilarious. 8.5 is already too low for his points.

We'll be lucky if it's under 9.5 regardless if PIT thinks they can compete, the front office obviously feels the team can compete. See: the decisions this year.

Now, i think his points are based off sid. And he isn't worth resigning for market value. It's jarry but as a forward.

Jarry so far has lived up to his contract. Way above the league median Sv%, on pace for 55 games played. What's there to complain about? Are we just saying it on principal?

Even if Jake leaves then he'll play with another 1C most likely. Lots of great players among their ranks. Sid's not the only one.
And if he gets the bag then whatever team he's on is gonna use him on PP1...likely a much better one than ours. One that can get him more puck touches.

Plus I think you're selling Jake short. His career production apart from Sid is excellent. His hockey IQ is top tier and he's adaptive. Always concern with age on 8 years deals going into mid to late 30s though.

 

[Turin]

I would give Guentzel 9 over 8 fwiw. I think he'll be an effective player for a while still, and he could always just retire off the cap.

 

[cygnus47]

Graves can definitely be effective in some systems. His only real downfall is his inability to get the right weight on the puck behind the net under pressure. If we had a system where we stayed structured down low and worked our way out slowly he’d be fine. He’s fine defending and with the puck in space, it’s just the screw ups on clears and blind passes to no one. If we supported more or he cleared up that part he’d be a great fit in the top 4.

He’s been clearing up the issues with the reduced role, if he can keep adapting to the system and stay that way he can be effective.

 

[Zirakzigil]

I think fans are going to be in for some harsh realities with new contracts. Its been a pretty stagnate cap for 4-5 years. Over the next few years its going to increase rapidly. Top pairing defensemen and first line forwards are going to get 10+ mil cap hits, thats going to be the new norm and not the exception. I expect Jakes contract to start with a 9 if he goes for 8 years.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's gonna be wild to see McDavid's AAV end up being like $23 million when his new deal is signed.

 

[Zirakzigil]

It's gonna be wild to see McDavid's AAV end up being like $23 million when his new deal is signed.

Good thing Tavares is coming of the Leafs cap

 

[chethejet]

Teams have cap space next year. Some due to not spending with a tight cap and little long term contracts. Some just uncertainty on cap increases. Jake if Pens are out of the playoff tun has to be moved if the deal is worth it. As to other moves, Smith is one year contract after this year. Graves is not a killer contract as he can be a decent LD. I have posted if the Pens miss the playoffs so be it. But finish in the top 10 draft position and hope lottery luck moves them up. Two picks I just love are RD from Michigan St and big center Lindstrum. Trade up to get either one.

 

[Andy99]

From 32 Thoughts yesterday: Friedman kinda makes it sounds like he’s gone imo


“Rick Tocchet knows Jake Guentzel. Jim Rutherford knows Jake Guentzel. If Jake Guentzel’s going to be available the Vancouver Canucks are going to be in it,” Elliotte Friedman said on Friday’s 32 Thoughts: The Podcast. “But so are a lot of other people.”


Guentzel, a two-time 40-goal scorer who has 19 goals and 46 points through 42 games, would be one of the most impactful scorers available. At 29, Guentzel makes $6 million against the cap this season and then becomes a free agent in the summer.

And the Penguins, who missed the playoffs last season and haven’t won a series since 2018, could make sense to be a seller. As of Friday morning, they are 10th in the East, three points out of a wild card spot, but with games in hand of every team in front of them. They’re not out, but they’re far from a guarantee to get in — and no one views the Penguins as a legitimate Stanley Cup threat anymore.

While Rutherford’s teams have historically acted early to get a jump on the trade market — and they have already acquired Nikita Zadorov this season — this deal will be on Dubas’ timeline. Guentzel, too, might have a decision to make.


“To me the biggest decision here is where’s Pittsburgh going and I think they’re bracing for a future where they’re going to say ‘we’re not trading prospects, picks for short-term fixes,” Friedman said. “I do believe one of the things that Guentzel’s been weighing is if the Penguins aren’t going to be all-in does this make sense for (him)? Once that gets formalized I think the auction will begin.”