Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Youth movement is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face"

[Coastal Kev]

From 32 Thoughts yesterday: Friedman kinda makes it sounds like he’s gone imo


“Rick Tocchet knows Jake Guentzel. Jim Rutherford knows Jake Guentzel. If Jake Guentzel’s going to be available the Vancouver Canucks are going to be in it,” Elliotte Friedman said on Friday’s 32 Thoughts: The Podcast. “But so are a lot of other people.”


Guentzel, a two-time 40-goal scorer who has 19 goals and 46 points through 42 games, would be one of the most impactful scorers available. At 29, Guentzel makes $6 million against the cap this season and then becomes a free agent in the summer.

And the Penguins, who missed the playoffs last season and haven’t won a series since 2018, could make sense to be a seller. As of Friday morning, they are 10th in the East, three points out of a wild card spot, but with games in hand of every team in front of them. They’re not out, but they’re far from a guarantee to get in — and no one views the Penguins as a legitimate Stanley Cup threat anymore.

While Rutherford’s teams have historically acted early to get a jump on the trade market — and they have already acquired Nikita Zadorov this season — this deal will be on Dubas’ timeline. Guentzel, too, might have a decision to make.


“To me the biggest decision here is where’s Pittsburgh going and I think they’re bracing for a future where they’re going to say ‘we’re not trading prospects, picks for short-term fixes,” Friedman said. “I do believe one of the things that Guentzel’s been weighing is if the Penguins aren’t going to be all-in does this make sense for (him)? Once that gets formalized I think the auction will begin.”

Reading that makes me so sad. If ownership had only sided with JR rather than sully, we would have a completely different roster with Tocchet as our HC. As Rogers Waters would say, PATHETIC

 

[Andy99]

Reading that makes me so sad. If ownership had only sided with JR rather than sully, we would have a completely different roster with Tocchet as our HC. As Rogers Waters would say, PATHETIC

JR walked away when he reportedly couldn’t trade Letang…if true, big baby, and I'm not sorry he’s gone, only wish Sullivan had followed him out the door lol…although in hindsight who the f***’s brilliant idea was it to hire his replacement in Hextall?

I support letting the core retire here…it’s what you do around them that got all f**ked up and I feel sorry they’ve had zero legit chance to win it all the last few seasons

 

[Coastal Kev]

JR walked away when he reportedly couldn’t trade Letang…if true, big baby, and I'm not sorry he’s gone, only wish Sullivan had followed him out the door lol…although in hindsight who the f***’s brilliant idea was it to hire his replacement in Hextall?

I support letting the core retire here…it’s what you do around them that got all f**ked up and I feel sorry they’ve had zero legit chance to win it all the last few seasons

It was a power play between the HC and GM, it all started that offseason in 18. We could have kept the core, but we could/should have flipped everyone else for youth. We could have had the 95 team easily.

 

[Darren McCord]

It was a power play between the HC and GM, it all started that offseason in 18. We could have kept the core, but we could/should have flipped everyone else for youth. We could have had the 95 team easily.

Nah JR was in full blow destruction. He did it with the canes to. Him staying maybe gets them another run (probably not) but the team would have been in rebuild already with him with zero picks or prospects. JR should never be with a team to long term.

 

[chethejet]

Sully has to go. This year will show the ownership group why that extension was comically stupid. I wanted Rick Tocchet but Hextall was a moron and now Pens just struggle to make the playoffs. Changes will be needed and time for Dubas to see that is what has to happen. Jake for a package is the start. Younger players with upside and a coach who values what is winning in the NHL. Size, grit and effort are in too short a supply.

 

[Zbynek]

From 32 Thoughts yesterday: Friedman kinda makes it sounds like he’s gone imo


“Rick Tocchet knows Jake Guentzel. Jim Rutherford knows Jake Guentzel. If Jake Guentzel’s going to be available the Vancouver Canucks are going to be in it,” Elliotte Friedman said on Friday’s 32 Thoughts: The Podcast. “But so are a lot of other people.”


Guentzel, a two-time 40-goal scorer who has 19 goals and 46 points through 42 games, would be one of the most impactful scorers available. At 29, Guentzel makes $6 million against the cap this season and then becomes a free agent in the summer.

And the Penguins, who missed the playoffs last season and haven’t won a series since 2018, could make sense to be a seller. As of Friday morning, they are 10th in the East, three points out of a wild card spot, but with games in hand of every team in front of them. They’re not out, but they’re far from a guarantee to get in — and no one views the Penguins as a legitimate Stanley Cup threat anymore.

While Rutherford’s teams have historically acted early to get a jump on the trade market — and they have already acquired Nikita Zadorov this season — this deal will be on Dubas’ timeline. Guentzel, too, might have a decision to make.


“To me the biggest decision here is where’s Pittsburgh going and I think they’re bracing for a future where they’re going to say ‘we’re not trading prospects, picks for short-term fixes,” Friedman said. “I do believe one of the things that Guentzel’s been weighing is if the Penguins aren’t going to be all-in does this make sense for (him)? Once that gets formalized I think the auction will begin.”

Elliotte Friedman's career as a journalist has taken an absolute nose-dive over the last year or so. I put about as much stock in what he says as I do with Josh Yohe.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It was a power play between the HC and GM, it all started that offseason in 18. We could have kept the core, but we could/should have flipped everyone else for youth. We could have had the 95 team easily.

Odd to defend JR in another post while saying this. JR is the one who threw away a ton of young assets on win-now pieces.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Odd to defend JR in another post while saying this. JR is the one who threw away a ton of young assets on win-now pieces.

I have stated multiple times that JR's only weakness was overpayment at times. But JR would admit a mistake and move heaven and earth to fix it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

JR was a clown and did the organization a favor by pissing his pants and stomping off. If he didn't, I'm not sure how much longer Mario would've just shrugged and let him do his stupid, rudderless bullshit. Problem is, Mario then hired Hextall, so JR's few years of psychosis was followed by Hextall's tenure of idiocy and now here we are. Should've just nuked the FO and coaching staff after the Montreal play-in.

Anyway, it's hilarious to think of Patrick Roy coaching the Lou-led Isles. This should be good.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I have stated multiple times that JR's only weakness was overpayment at times. But JR would admit a mistake and move heaven and earth to fix it.

“At times”

JR didn’t tank this team like Hextall did, but their lack of young talent and depth at this point is absolutely on his shoulders. He’s the one who traded basically every 1st rounder over a 5 year stretch.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

You really gotta hand it to JR. That "he frequently sucked shit and overspent for bad fits, but also went and spent extra to then remove them" thing was a real genius aspect that goes overlooked.

 

[pistolpete11]

IMHO, JR's biggest flaw was not being on the same page as his coach. Whether that meant building the team that Sullivan wanted to coach or by getting a new coach, you can't square-peg-round-hole guys and expect good results.

.......that and signing JMFJ.

 

[Andy99]

IMHO, JR's biggest flaw was not being on the same page as his coach. Whether that meant building the team that Sullivan wanted to coach or by getting a new coach, you can't square-peg-round-hole guys and expect good results.

.......that and signing JMFJ.

Dubas has given Sullivan everything he wants…are we any better record-wise so far than last season? Enough said…

 

[pistolpete11]

Dubas has given Sullivan everything he wants…are we any better record-wise so far than last season? Enough said…

We've gone back and fourth on this a million times, but yes, I think Sullivan's/Dubas' theory has been proven to work (at least in the regular season) as the Pens are the 4th best team in terms of G% at 5-on-5. And I say that as someone who's been saying to fire Sullivan since the Montreal series.

They are where they are because of the PP and as I've said numerous times around here, I put that largely on coaching, not roster construction.

 

[Andy99]

We've gone back and fourth on this a million times, but yes, I think Sullivan's/Dubas' theory has been proven to work (at least in the regular season) as the Pens are the 4th best team in terms of G% at 5-on-5. And I say that as someone who's been saying to fire Sullivan since the Montreal series.

They are where they are because of the PP and as I've said numerous times around here, I put that largely on coaching, not roster construction.

The PP is enough of a reason not to retain him and also to distrust his approach to being successful with the oldest roster in the league…a roster btw he helped create…

 

[pistolpete11]

The PP is enough of a reason not to retain him and also to distrust his approach to being successful with the oldest roster in the league…a roster btw he helped create…

The only connection I see between the PP struggles to his approach and theory of roster construction is if you think they don't have the players to have a decent PP. I think that's insane, but your mileage may vary.

You can make a case to fire him on the PP alone because it is legitimately costing them points and is a coaching issue. But I'm not debating whether to fire him or not.

 

[DearDiary]

Pens issue is aggressiveness. They're way too soft and every other team in the league knows that. That's why other teams players are so confident dekeing around with their eyes on the puck, because they know no one will step up on them. That's why the Pens look so slow, because they have to play careful, while other teams slowest players can skate around and stickhandle.

Malkin is the worst offender for this. When forechecking, Dmen just stand still looking for an outlet with Malkin flying towards them, because they know Malkin won't hit them. Same thing in his own zone, Dmen just comfortably hold the zone because Malkin will just go for a stick swipe and then take a long loop to center ice before curving back to defend. Evidenced by a pathethic total of 9 hits this season. On pace for 17 hits, when he had 53 last year.

It's not just Malkin either, the other worst offender is the penalty kill. Ever since Tanev left, the PK has been completely passive. They never pressure the Dman at the line, they swipe their stick and then get back. They never go through with the hit. By far the worst is the lack of pushing opponents out of the crease, which Tocchet called Sullivan out for during an intermission panel around 1.5 years ago for not having the Pens defend Jarry.

It's just so pathetic to watch, expecially because other teams gameplan Sullivans coaching, knowing he's telling them to sit back.

 

[Andy99]

Pens issue is aggressiveness. They're way too soft and every other team in the league knows that. That's why other teams players are so confident dekeing around with their eyes on the puck, because they know no one will step up on them. That's why the Pens look so slow, because they have to play careful, while other teams slowest players can skate around and stickhandle.

Malkin is the worst offender for this. When forechecking, Dmen just stand still looking for an outlet with Malkin flying towards them, because they know Malkin won't hit them. Same thing in his own zone, Dmen just comfortably hold the zone because Malkin will just go for a stick swipe and then take a long loop to center ice before curving back to defend. Evidenced by a pathethic total of 9 hits this season. On pace for 17 hits, when he had 53 last year.

It's not just Malkin either, the other worst offender is the penalty kill. Ever since Tanev left, the PK has been completely passive. They never pressure the Dman at the line, they swipe their stick and then get back. They never go through with the hit. By far the worst is the lack of pushing opponents out of the crease, which Tocchet called Sullivan out for during an intermission panel around 1.5 years ago for not having the Pens defend Jarry.

It's just so pathetic to watch, expecially because other teams gameplan Sullivans coaching, knowing he's telling them to sit back.

Geno is 37 years old…ive seen him lay hits but do we really want that particular guy with a bum knee being overly physical…he’d be out half the season on IR….

 

[DearDiary]

Geno is 37 years old…ive seen him lay hits but do we really want that particular guy with a bum knee being overly physical…he’d be out half the season on IR

Finishing a check isn't being physical, it's a normal part of the game. If you can't shove another player and they just stand still when you come by them, then you're not playing hockey. You're being a red carpet for opponents to make plays. 9 total hits in 42 games is absurd.

 

[Andy99]

Finishing a check isn't being physical, it's a normal part of the game. If you can't shove another player and they just stand still when you come by them, then you're not playing hockey. You're being a red carpet for opponents to make plays. 9 total hits in 42 games is absurd.

We’re probably lucky he’s out there at all lol…Im sure Sullivan is telling him to be cautious and rely on his line mates to finish checks…same with Sid

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Every now and then I think I'm too pessimistic about the Pens, then I read some Andy posts and I may as well have the team logo tattooed on my forehead because I seem positively brainpoisoned with optimism by comparison.

 

[Fordy]

Pens issue is aggressiveness. They're way too soft and every other team in the league knows that. That's why other teams players are so confident dekeing around with their eyes on the puck, because they know no one will step up on them. That's why the Pens look so slow, because they have to play careful, while other teams slowest players can skate around and stickhandle.

Malkin is the worst offender for this. When forechecking, Dmen just stand still looking for an outlet with Malkin flying towards them, because they know Malkin won't hit them. Same thing in his own zone, Dmen just comfortably hold the zone because Malkin will just go for a stick swipe and then take a long loop to center ice before curving back to defend. Evidenced by a pathethic total of 9 hits this season. On pace for 17 hits, when he had 53 last year.

It's not just Malkin either, the other worst offender is the penalty kill. Ever since Tanev left, the PK has been completely passive. They never pressure the Dman at the line, they swipe their stick and then get back. They never go through with the hit. By far the worst is the lack of pushing opponents out of the crease, which Tocchet called Sullivan out for during an intermission panel around 1.5 years ago for not having the Pens defend Jarry.

It's just so pathetic to watch, expecially because other teams gameplan Sullivans coaching, knowing he's telling them to sit back.

malkin leads the team in takeaways and is currently 10th in the league overall. as he usually is. if dmen aren't currently scared of him, they probably should be

 

[SEALBound]

Odd to defend JR in another post while saying this. JR is the one who threw away a ton of young assets on win-now pieces.

That have largely amounted to nothing. Nothing of any impact was ultimately given away by JR.

 

[Turin]

From 32 Thoughts yesterday: Friedman kinda makes it sounds like he’s gone imo


“Rick Tocchet knows Jake Guentzel. Jim Rutherford knows Jake Guentzel. If Jake Guentzel’s going to be available the Vancouver Canucks are going to be in it,” Elliotte Friedman said on Friday’s 32 Thoughts: The Podcast. “But so are a lot of other people.”


Guentzel, a two-time 40-goal scorer who has 19 goals and 46 points through 42 games, would be one of the most impactful scorers available. At 29, Guentzel makes $6 million against the cap this season and then becomes a free agent in the summer.

And the Penguins, who missed the playoffs last season and haven’t won a series since 2018, could make sense to be a seller. As of Friday morning, they are 10th in the East, three points out of a wild card spot, but with games in hand of every team in front of them. They’re not out, but they’re far from a guarantee to get in — and no one views the Penguins as a legitimate Stanley Cup threat anymore.

While Rutherford’s teams have historically acted early to get a jump on the trade market — and they have already acquired Nikita Zadorov this season — this deal will be on Dubas’ timeline. Guentzel, too, might have a decision to make.


“To me the biggest decision here is where’s Pittsburgh going and I think they’re bracing for a future where they’re going to say ‘we’re not trading prospects, picks for short-term fixes,” Friedman said. “I do believe one of the things that Guentzel’s been weighing is if the Penguins aren’t going to be all-in does this make sense for (him)? Once that gets formalized I think the auction will begin.”

No he doesn’t, that’s just how you read EVERYTHING.

 

[Andy99]

View attachment 807117
malkin leads the team in takeaways and is currently 10th in the league overall. as he usually is. if dmen aren't currently scared of him, they probably should be

He also does this very well too, which should be scary to Dmen…