PEDs in the NHL

[BigEezyE22]

Wouldn't this be the easiest way to keep players out of the Olympics? Keep insanely relaxed standards on PED's and just leave the players exposed to doing themselves out of qualification of the Olympics...

 

[LFCTML]

People generally know so little about PEDs when in these discussions.

Testosterone is a PED. It’s actually THE PED. Most everything else is a compound based off the molecular structure of testosterone. Most synthetic steroids like dianabol, anavar, winstrol, etc. are run side by side with testosterone. Testosterone alone can still provide a wealth of benefits. We produce it naturally. You can inject it to raise your levels. It assists with putting on muscle, or not losing muscle over a long season, metabolism, recovery, aggression, etc. The way to test for it? Check someone’s testosterone levels. But it’s the same way you or I would get checked for low testosterone and these are young professional athletes who are expected to have higher testosterone to begin with. Testosterone levels also fluctuate between day and night and day to day, as well as with age, depending on what you’re eating, how hard you’re training, etc.

You could inject body builder type amounts (anywhere from 500-1000mg weekly) and have an insanely high amount of testosterone which would make the results of a blood test a lot more obvious. But you could also take testosterone replacement therapy level injections, say 100-200mg a week, and have a much less suspicious testosterone level. Normally a man whose testosterone levels read below 300 will get TRT to bring him back up into the 400-500 range.

A hockey player who is in the 500 range could boost himself to 750 using this method, still he considered in the “normal” range and not raise any red flags in a blood test and without knowing a regular baseline for that player to compare it, no one would be able to prove they’re injecting testosterone. Additionally, even if they had a “baseline” for that player, once again diet, training, age, etc. all factor into changes in testosterone anyway. Meanwhile, it’s believable that these professional athletes would come back with results on the higher end of normal so it’s entirely feasible for a player to intelligently and discreetly boost performance, recovery and aggression using smaller doses of testosterone and not pop positive for a PED ever.

This was super interesting, thanks for explaining.

 

[Ciccarelli]

You know Russia is a European country right? The place where the government helps athletes take their drugs.

The answer to OP is "extremely common". Just like all sports.

Russia is Russia. As different from western european countries as is south america from north america.

 

[kingpest19]

• Ok, well I do know it's true and it's common knowledge. The idea that you think you know better than the "US medical system" or whatever is kind of laughable especially considering you don't even sound like you know why pseudo ephedrine is banned by the IOC. And yes, I do think it's monitored because it's used in the production of Meth, I pretty clearly said that. I also think it's pretty convenient that Backstrom was using that specific allergy medicine instead of one that doesn't include a stimulant in it. Just because something isn't a "Hulk-mania super-drug" doesn't mean it won't enhance your performance which is the literal name of PEDs. You sound like you think the only PEDs we should be worried about are anabolic steroids that increase testosterone which is pretty funny to be honest.

Regardless, I didn't even mention Backstrom in my list of players caught using PEDs but for whatever reason you keep arguing him and not someone like Zykov who was just caught this season and his own team came out and said he was knowingly using a banned substance.

Just depends on how bad his allergies are. If he's been taking them for that long of a time, they're probably pretty bad. And add in that he was taking them on the advice of the team doctor and had disclosed that he was taking it, I'd say the chances of him using it as a PED are pretty slim

 

[StoneHands]

Regardless, you have admitted that the reason for it being monitored has absolutely nothing to do with the drug itself, so not sure why you represented it as anything other than the pretty basic over-the-counter allergy medication that it is.

What are you talking about? The reason for the drug being monitored has everything to do with the drug itself. It's monitored because it contains a stimulant. The IOC monitors stimulants because they can give athletes a competitive edge.

The IOC literally said there was "no indication that Mr. Backstrom intended to enhance his sport performance by taking a prohibited substance".

I never said he definitely took it to enhance his performance. Again, I actually didn't even mention him in the list of players suspended for PEDs. You brought him up. But to act like there's no chance that Backstrom took that specific medication instead of the myriad of other options that don't contain stimulants is a little naive.

This is you applying intent/motive with zero evidence.

And you believing every excuse an athlete gives when he gets caught using banned substance is the same.

Just because something is on the list, it doesn't mean that it's going to provide any real impact at the threshold.

Well, this is wrong. Drugs are placed on a banned substance list for one of three reasons. Either they're illegal, they can give someone a competitive edge, or they cover up other banned substances. Drugs aren't placed on banned lists for the hell of it.

I didn't say that at all, but you make it sound like people who use those smelling salts on the bench may as well be juicing up into steroid monsters.

here you go again with buzz words like juicing and steroids to clearly illustrate how little you know about PEDs. If you think railing a line of coke before a hockey game isn't going to give someone a competitive edge or that cocaine use detected by the IOC is fine because the test wasn't done by the NHL, you're simply turning a blind eye and that's fine but it doesn't mean it's not PED use.

 

[Bandit]

People claiming rampant PEDs in the NHL with absolutely zero evidence incoming.

People did the same thing with the MLB, turns out they were right.

"Eric Gagne has a beer & cheesburgers physique, no way he's on PEDs!" Whoops.

 

[MM425]

The NHL's drug testing policy is incredibly lax. Urine testing only. Two tests a year (1 in camp, 1 during the season). Random testing is extremely limited.

I would be very surprised if a good portion of players were not using some IOC banned substances and/or streamlining their testosterone levels, mostly for the purpose of recovery.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I'm pretty sure a good chunk of NHL players use PED's, the question is do we want the NHL to follow the UFC route for testing? I don't know about you, but I sure don't want USADA anywhere near the NHL.

agreed .

Personally I think PEDs should be banned from the NHL but USADA is a joke. I wouldn't want them anywhere near the NHL either.

 

[Marner]

People generally know so little about PEDs when in these discussions.

Testosterone is a PED. It’s actually THE PED.

HGH is way better. And would be way more beneficial to an nhl player.

 

[Marner]

Two questions:

1) when was the last time a player got caught for PEDs? I honestly cant recall ever hearing of it...

2) people say the testing is a joke but how? What is the NHLs current testing policy like?

Players are tested in pre season and once at “random” which probably isn’t random. And there are Cba rules in place that only allow 60 total nhl players to be tested in the offseason.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

People claiming rampant PEDs in the NHL with absolutely zero evidence incoming.

Any time you're dealing with the elite level of a pro sport involving millions of dollars, it's a pretty safe assumption that people are looking for any advantage they can gain. And some of those advantages will be PEDs.

Like others have mentioned, I'd bet most of them are to aid in recovery.

 

[Dekes For Days]

What are you talking about? The reason for the drug being monitored has everything to do with the drug itself.

No, it has to do with how the medication can be utilized and modified in the production of way more dangerous recreational drugs that are illegal.

But to act like there's no chance that Backstrom took that specific medication instead of the myriad of other options that don't contain stimulants is a little naive.

To act like there's a relevant chance that Backstrom took that specific medication instead of other options that likely worked way worse for him, that would have negligible impact on his abilities at best, for some competitive advantage reasons and then went around telling everybody about it for 7+ years, is a little ridiculous, especially when WADA, the IOC, the IIHF, and the medical professionals all came out to say that there was no intention.

And you believing every excuse an athlete gives when he gets caught using banned substance is the same.

No, me critically evaluating people's given reasons in these rare cases that seem entirely plausible and likely in most circumstances is not the same as pulling intent out of thin air and assuming the worst.

Well, this is wrong.

No, it's quite right. Just because something is on the list, it doesn't mean that it's going to provide any real impact at the threshold.

If you think railing a line of coke before a hockey game isn't going to give someone a competitive edge

There is no evidence that people are "railing lines of coke" before hockey games.

 

[LokiDog]

HGH is way better. And would be way more beneficial to an nhl player.

HGH is harder to get and to administer but beyond that I won’t comment on how feasible or not it would be to run it undetected as I’m not familiar with the testing for HGH. Testosterone still provides ample benefits and can be done in a virtually undetectable manner. I would be very surprised if less than 1/3 of all professional athletes aren’t shooting T. In the TRT level doses that would still provide recovery and mild performance benefits, it’s not only undetectable but has virtually no drawbacks, unless you’re a DHT sensitive male with the gene for male pattern baldness. I would agree that HGH is a superior hormone and if I could afford it, I’d run it.

 

[traffic cone]

HGH shows in tests for about 24 hours...

Imagine all the possibilities.

 

[frisco]

I wonder how many guys have a Medical Exemption for a drug that is used for enhancing performance. For example, if a player can get himself diagnosed with ADHD or depression (since there is no objective test for these the diagnosis is based on self-reporting symptom clusters) that would open up the "legal" use all kinds of stimulants, etc.,

Or someone like Serena Williams has gotten (obviously not a hockey player) therapeutic exemptions for the following (not an exhaustive list):

Serena Williams' Therapeutic Use Exemptions (TUEs)
Date for use/Date given/Substance
*Oct 2010 - Mar 2011/23 Dec/Hydromorphone
*Dec 2010/23 Dec/Oxycodone
*Nov 27-Dec 1 2010/23 Dec/Methylprednisolone
*12-19 Mar 2014/13th Mar/Prednisone
*21-30 Mar 2014/2 Apr/Prednisone
*7-21 May 2014/8 May/Prednisone
*10-17 Nov 2014/3 Dec/Prednisone, Oxycodone
*5-10 June 2015/8 Jun/Prednisolone

I don't know if the NHL makes these medical/therapeutic exemptions public but it is an area ripe for abuse.

My Best-Carey

 

[Marner]

HGH is harder to get and to administer but beyond that I won’t comment on how feasible or not it would be to run it undetected as I’m not familiar with the testing for HGH. Testosterone still provides ample benefits and can be done in a virtually undetectable manner. I would be very surprised if less than 1/3 of all professional athletes aren’t shooting T. In the TRT level doses that would still provide recovery and mild performance benefits, it’s not only undetectable but has virtually no drawbacks, unless you’re a DHT sensitive male with the gene for male pattern baldness. I would agree that HGH is a superior hormone and if I could afford it, I’d run it.

It’s not hard to get anyone could buy legit pharmacy grade hgh in 10 min online. To administer it’s the same as test.

Test is great don’t get me wrong. But it’s only undetectable if your levels are very low and your bring them up to normal male levels. This isn’t really performance enhancement. Low t wouldn’t even be an issue for like 95% of players imo.

only other way to be undetectable with these is to use test suspension which has very short half life.(in your system 2-4 hours) need many injections a day.

I’ve used quite a bit.

 

[Patriks7]

People claiming rampant PEDs in the NHL with absolutely zero evidence incoming.

Does multiple current and ex NHLers admitting it in conversation count?

 

[StoneHands]

No, it has to do with how the medication can be utilized and modified in the production of way more dangerous recreational drugs that are illegal.

Meth is a stimulant. I'll let you take one guess what ingredient in Meth makes it a stimulant. You're making it sound like pseudoephedrine isn't a stimulant on it's own and it's modified to become one and that's 100% false.

No, it's quite right. Just because something is on the list, it doesn't mean that it's going to provide any real impact at the threshold.

Ok, so tell me why pseudoephedrine is banned? Is it because the IOC thinks people should compete with allergies or is it because it's a known stimulant that can be masked as an allergy medicine?

There is no evidence that people are "railing lines of coke" before hockey games.

Well, the NHL isn't allowed to test for drugs on game day so there's no way to obtain said evidence. They also do not disclose if/when a player does test positive for cocaine so we wouldn't know anyway. Just because there's no evidence doesn't mean it's not happening. I get it, you don't believe players do coke because the NHL hasn't told you they do it. What we do know is that an NHL player being caught on video in front of two lines of coke and denied it was his and then when the IIHF tested him, he failed. I guess Kuzy is the only guy in the NHL that does coke. Totally isolated incident.

 

[Marner]

Nhl only tests urine as well which hgh is basically undetectable.

 

[blankall]

HGH is harder to get and to administer but beyond that I won’t comment on how feasible or not it would be to run it undetected as I’m not familiar with the testing for HGH. Testosterone still provides ample benefits and can be done in a virtually undetectable manner. I would be very surprised if less than 1/3 of all professional athletes aren’t shooting T. In the TRT level doses that would still provide recovery and mild performance benefits, it’s not only undetectable but has virtually no drawbacks, unless you’re a DHT sensitive male with the gene for male pattern baldness. I would agree that HGH is a superior hormone and if I could afford it, I’d run it.

Most sporting bodies allow up to several times the normal levels of Testosterone during their testing. There are other issues too, like ratios to certain other hormones and hormone byproducts, but those would likely go back to normal within a few weeks.

Like I said before, you'd have to be an idiot to fail a drug test in most professional sports. Unless they are doing frequent random tests, year round, then anybody can get away with it.

There are also a lot of NHLers in their early 20s with really bad hairlines (this a very affluent group with access to anti-balding treatments). Also a lot of blood clots these days, which could be the product of artificially increasing red blood cell counts.

 

[Sonic Disturbance]

I have no idea just how rampant PEDs are in hockey, but I'm sure they are much more widespread than the few individuals who've been caught. Especially when the penalties for being caught right now aren't that harsh. The UFC only had a few fighters caught here and there pre-2014ish. Then they got strict third-party drug-testing from USADA, and fighters (including ones who you would never suspect) were popping left and right.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

HGH for strength, Turinabol for recovery, ephedrine for alertness, cocaine for immortality.

And viagra for post game performances if you know what I mean.

 

[Lt Dan]

I have no idea just how rampant PEDs are in hockey, but I'm sure they are much more widespread than the few individuals who've been caught. Especially when the penalties for being caught right now aren't that harsh. The UFC only had a few fighters caught here and there pre-2014ish. Then they got strict third-party drug-testing from USADA, and fighters (including ones who you would never suspect) were popping left and right.

This

IMO- The PA doesn't do their job here and definitely didn't do their job in baseball. I am looking at you Fehr

 

[blankall]

It’s not hard to get anyone could buy legit pharmacy grade hgh in 10 min online. To administer it’s the same as test.

Test is great don’t get me wrong. But it’s only undetectable if your levels are very low and your bring them up to normal male levels. This isn’t really performance enhancement. Low t wouldn’t even be an issue for like 95% of players imo.

only other way to be undetectable with these is to use test suspension which has very short half life.(in your system 2-4 hours) need many injections a day.

I’ve used quite a bit.

This isn't true. Most sporting bodies will allow up to several times average test levels in their testing. That means that a person with average testosterone levels could triple or quadruple their own levels and still get away with it. The elevated levels would only last for a few weeks too. With the lack of random testing, year round, it would be extremely easy for NHLers to get away with it.

A basic testosterone cycle wouldn't require all that much PCT, particularly if you eased off it, so you wouldn't have that avenue to catch people either.

For sports enhancement, you don't need professional bodybuilder level use of PEDs. NHLers aren't trying to be 280lbs with 5% body fat.

Anyways, I think using steroids, particularly naturally occurring ones like Test, would be very very easy in the NHL. It's essentially an honour code at this point, as the testing is absurdly relaxed.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Ok, so tell me why pseudoephedrine is banned?

By international hockey? Because in certain quantities, used in certain ways, for certain people, there can be potential benefits, and they are very strict. That doesn't mean Backstrom was using it in that way, or that amount, or for that reason, and it doesn't mean it had any real effect on anything.

Just because there's no evidence doesn't mean it's not happening.

What a statement. Apply this to anything, and you can believe anything.

What we do know is that an NHL player being caught on video in front of two lines of coke

That was not before a game.

I guess Kuzy is the only guy in the NHL that does coke.

Doing coke recreationally occasionally is very different from "railing lines of coke before games".