PEDs in the NHL

[Belieber]

Pretty sure Nuge is clean.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

When players are consistently coming back 1-2 months early from major injury and surgery, it's pretty damning.

 

[blankall]

Agreed with you,


The day the NHL is going to test back old samples for SRAMs a LOT of players will get tested.



People in general don't understand or know how heavily used SRAMs are in gyms, athletes and Crossfitters.

SARMs (spelling). But yes, they are heavily used. You can order them online. They are sold as "research chemicals" and not for human use.

Technically, they are not steroids, because the chemical structure is different, but they interact with the same androgen receptors.

The competitive aspects of Crossfit have really died down, but at my CrossFit gym SARM use was extremely common for a while. Anyone who wanted to compete was forced to take the (or find actual roids), as the positive effects on performance were so huge that anyone who didn't take them couldn't compete.

 

[LokiDog]

Which is a huuuuuuge reach IMO. I hardly think seeing balding players or guys with receding/thinning hairlines is indicative of PED use. The clotting thing may have some merit, and (without knowing what i'm talking about whatsoever) hearing stories about Jay Bouwmeester having major heart issues on the bench, it makes me wonder why we seem to see players with heart/blood issues from time to time.

But in general I think it's disingenuous to say "Balding players and blood clots=widespread PED use in the NHL"

Luckily nobody said that. We both made lengthy detailed posts about PEDs and mentioned that receding hair lines are often a telltale sign and there are a noteworthy handful of guys in the league who have them at premature ages.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Luckily nobody said that. We both made lengthy detailed posts about PEDs and mentioned that receding hair lines are often a telltale sign and there are a noteworthy handful of guys in the league who have them at premature ages.

Premature ages??? Examples please. As well as what qualifies as “premature” to you.

There are plenty of factors that go into hair loss. PEDs use would be low on my list. Certainly nowhere near high enough to suggest PED use is a league wide commonality

 

[McFlyingV]

Luckily nobody said that. We both made lengthy detailed posts about PEDs and mentioned that receding hair lines are often a telltale sign and there are a noteworthy handful of guys in the league who have them at premature ages.

You could take enormous amounts of testosterone and never experience any hair loss at all. Male pattern baldness is highly related to the receptor sensitivity for DHT which is genetic. Looking at players with early male pattern baldness tells you literally nothing about whether or not they are taking testosterone supplementation.

 

[Techcoockie]

The competitive aspects of Crossfit have really died down, but at my CrossFit gym SARM use was extremely common for a while. Anyone who wanted to compete was forced to take the (or find actual roids), as the positive effects on performance were so huge that anyone who didn't take them couldn't compete.

It'S funny because I have a really really similar story about Crossfit athletes and Sarms in affiliated gyms in Qc.

It was taboo for a small laps of time, but like you said it was heavily used and almost 100% needed to do well at regionals or even during the opens.

 

[Hanji]

People claiming rampant PEDs in the NHL with absolutely zero evidence incoming.

The penchant for NHLers to display absurdly fast injury recovery time is evidence enough.

 

[LokiDog]

You could take enormous amounts of testosterone and never experience any hair loss at all. Male pattern baldness is highly related to the receptor sensitivity for DHT which is genetic. Looking at players with early male pattern baldness tells you literally nothing about whether or not they are taking testosterone supplementation.

I literally spoke about testosterone users who have DHT sensitivity and the gene for male pattern baldness in my earlier posts in the thread. You’re responding to my short response to someone nitpicking the mention of balding, when my original post (literally on page 1) is several paragraphs long and only lightly mentions the hair loss at the very tail end.

 

[Macman]

stimulants and blood doping would be the most effective for an NHLer

Stimulants, yes, but I seriously doubt anyone in the NHL is blood doping. It's more for endurance sports like distance running and cycling, not fast-burst, short-shift sports like hockey.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Most common side effects of injecting additional testosterone into your system? Back acne and male pattern baldness regardless of age, in men with DHT sensitivity (one of the byproducts if extra test). Hello Getzlaf, Shattenkirk, Stepan, etc. Not accusing them of being PED users, I’ve had plenty of friends who lost their hair at unfortunate ages, but that’s one of the most noticeable side effects.

You basically made a long post about testosterone and then ended it by saying “look at these bald players in the NHL...did you guys know that baldness is a side effect of messing with your T!?!?!?”

It’s far from a conclusive observation in regards to what you’re trying to say. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if guys in the nhl were altering their T-levels, im just saying that pointing out baldness in a group of ~ 700 men who are inherently more prone to baldness due to genetically inherited higher T-levels is a big reach.

 

[JPeeper]

When players are consistently coming back 1-2 months early from major injury and surgery, it's pretty damning.

Name one example. Curious to know who you think came back early 'cause of PEDs. And even if they are using it to recover faster, good for them.

 

[McFlyingV]

I literally spoke about testosterone users who have DHT sensitivity and the gene for male pattern baldness in my earlier posts in the thread. You’re responding to my short response to someone nitpicking the mention of balding, when my original post (literally on page 1) is several paragraphs long and only lightly mentions the hair loss at the very tail end.

My mistake then I didn't read the whole thread. I did see someone going off about baldness being a key indicator on page 1 though so my post still applies to them.

Actually on second look it was your post I read where you basically pointed to MPB as a key identifying side effect of testosterone use so my post does apply to you. MPB literally tells you nothing about test use.

 

[LokiDog]

You basically made a long post about testosterone and then ended it by saying “look at these bald players in the NHL...did you guys know that baldness is a side effect of messing with your T!?!?!?”

It’s far from a conclusive observation in regards to what you’re trying to say. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if guys in the nhl were altering their T-levels, im just saying that pointing out baldness in a group of ~ 700 men who are inherently more prone to baldness due to genetically inherited higher T-levels is a big reach.

I just mentioned the baldness as a possible side effect. The point of the post is not baldness. The point of the post is how easy it would be to run test without it being detected and how any athlete would benefit from doing so. I’m not sure why you’re so hung up on the hair part. It’s like 1% of the post. It was just a little observation at the end of the post, that there are a lot of young guys who are experiencing it in the NHL. My younger brother has the DHT sensitivity but he didn’t discover it until he started injecting test and the extra converted to DHT. I was simply saying that it could be one possible cause of the bad hairlines we see on some of these young guys, but that was hardly the focus of the post. The post was about how easy it would be to run test without getting caught.

 

[BruinsBtn]

Stimulants, yes, but I seriously doubt anyone in the NHL is blood doping. It's more for endurance sports like distance running and cycling, not fast-burst, short-shift sports like hockey.

Blood doping would be hugely beneficial in a playoff grind. A blood-doped player in a back-to-back is going to have a big advantage.

As for balding... you can mask steroids and prevent balding with something like Rogaine. I fact, that's exactly what a couple of NHL goalies were busted for (before they stopped testing for that). I wouldn't draw any conclusions from hairlines.

 

[blankall]

It'S funny because I have a really really similar story about Crossfit athletes and Sarms in affiliated gyms in Qc.

It was taboo for a small laps of time, but like you said it was heavily used and almost 100% needed to do well at regionals or even during the opens.

Off topic, but crossfit changed dramatically about 10-12 years ago, once people started making money. It use to be natural healthy athletes. People had strengths in certain areas and weaknesses in others. Now the higher level athletes all look the same (not natural) and everyone is a beast. They all have that same bulged out stomach look, with the massive traps and shoulders. Entertaining in some sense, as you see how far people can go with chemical enhancement, but also totally destroyed it from the perspective of a non-cheater looking to compete.

 

[Techcoockie]

Off topic, but crossfit changed dramatically about 10-12 years ago, once people started making money. It use to be natural healthy athletes. People had strengths in certain areas and weaknesses in others. Now the higher level athletes all look the same (not natural) and everyone is a beast. They all have that same bulged out stomach look, with the massive traps and shoulders. Entertaining in some sense, as you see how far people can go with chemical enhancement, but also totally destroyed it from the perspective of a non-cheater looking to compete.

Couldn't have say it better

 

[blankall]

Stimulants, yes, but I seriously doubt anyone in the NHL is blood doping. It's more for endurance sports like distance running and cycling, not fast-burst, short-shift sports like hockey.

Blood doping would be a huge advantage in a hockey shift. The shifts are 30-45 seconds of intense activity. If you can dope your blood to carry more oxygen and increase your short term oxygen supply, that's a massive advantage.

There's already a notable case in hockey:

Alexei Cherepanov - Wikipedia

Having more oxygen carrying ability in your blood is great for both anaerobic and aerobic sports.

 

[SouthGeorge]

SARMs (spelling). But yes, they are heavily used. You can order them online. They are sold as "research chemicals" and not for human use.

Technically, they are not steroids, because the chemical structure is different, but they interact with the same androgen receptors.

The competitive aspects of Crossfit have really died down, but at my CrossFit gym SARM use was extremely common for a while. Anyone who wanted to compete was forced to take the (or find actual roids), as the positive effects on performance were so huge that anyone who didn't take them couldn't compete.

Why would millionaires risk it with SARMs? Anybody can get TRT or HRT therapy especially if you got the money.

 

[blankall]

Why would millionaires risk it with SARMs? Anybody can get TRT or HRT therapy especially if you got the money.

TRT and HRT create a paper trail. Whenever one of the sketchy "anti-aging" clinics go down, they take a bunch of athletes down with them. Are you forgetting about the "Biogenesis" scandal.

Theoretically, doctors should only be prescribing hormones within natural limits to their patients, which isn't all that helpful to an athlete unless they genuinely have low hormone levels. Also, just because a doctor prescribes something doesn't mean that it's not banned by a sporting body. For example, all of those allergy medications that athletes keep getting busted with.

 

[vandymeer13]

How fast do you think the guys coming from Europe benefit from the drug usage in NA? Im fairly certain they are not used, atleast not to the same extend, in European leagues.

Yeah Russians are known to never use steroids

 

[SouthGeorge]

Theoretically, doctors should only be prescribing hormones within natural limits to their patients, which isn't all that helpful to an athlete unless they genuinely have low hormone levels. Also, just because a doctor prescribes something doesn't mean that it's not banned by a sporting body. For example, all of those allergy medications that athletes keep getting busted with.

They could easily fudge blood work. Suppress themselves or just make it up. Oh my T is "200" I'll give you 250. When it's really 600.

I highly doubt NHL players are taking Sarms. Unless they got more information/clinical data than the guys I know take this/bodybuilding community. Maybe MK 677 which isn't even technically a sarm for healing. That's the only one I could imagine. Sides for the others isn't worth it.

I think it boils down to the NHL doesn't care. Once again, Ovechkin is all the proof you need.

 

[wintersej]

"There is zero evidence of rampant PED use in the NHL" is not a rebuttal to the premise of "the league has a deliberately lax testing program to avoid creating evidence of rampant PED use in a sport with a culture of secrecy".

The difference between being an NHL 4th liner and an AHL top 6 forward is the difference between having to get a real job when you retire from hockey at 32 with no real-world experience, or having enough money from an NHL career that you don't have to work a real job again in your life. The stakes are incredibly high and in my opinion it's incredibly naive to believe that PEDs aren't widespread when the salary incentive is an order of magnitude from 70k to 700k at minimum, and proper recovery time and sleep are in short supply during an NHL season, or even more limited for the AHL/ECHL guys with the biggest financial incentives.

I would take them in a heart beat.

 

[blankall]

They could easily fudge blood work. Suppress themselves or just make it up. Oh my T is "200" I'll give you 250. When it's really 600.

I highly doubt NHL players are taking Sarms. Unless they got more information/clinical data than the guys I know take this/bodybuilding community. Maybe MK 677 which isn't even technically a sarm for healing. That's the only one I could imagine. Sides for the others isn't worth it.

I think it boils down to the NHL doesn't care. Once again, Ovechkin is all the proof you need.

SARMs use is actually fairly widespread. They can be quite effective and safe, if you have a trusted source. A lot of them have advantages, especially with side effects, as they often target certain receptors more specifically. Unless you are getting prescription grade PEDs from a doctor, SARMs can actually be safer, if you have the right sources and references.

There's a notion that all athletes are superstars and have these amazing connections. However, a lot of them, especially entry level and fringe players, are pretty broke. You can pay $10+k/month for some crazy clinic. However, only athletes who've already made it somewhat can afford that.

 

[x Tame Impala]

I've seen cocaine brought up in this PED thread a few times and it's strange. This is a hockey forum so I obviously can't get into specifics here, but I'd be VERY surprised if NHL players are taking coke as a means to boost their performance. Unless you're an absolute psychopath with a death wish, I think it'd be pretty rare to have guys doing that stuff before games or during intermissions. Just because Kuznetsov got busted for having some in his hotel room and then the NHL media came out with a "Does hockey have a coke problem?" discussion this past offseason doesn't mean guys are taking it for games.

Cocaine is an $88 BILLION dollar annual business across the world. It's very bad for you, but a lot of people and especially rich people, do it. These guys are millionaire athletes hanging out in big cities. They've got cash to burn and want to have a good time. I'm sure the use of cocaine and molly with all pro athletes is high, but it's used after the games to have fun, not to give them an edge in games. Taking coke and then doing all the super intense cardio involved in a hockey game is a recipe for a f***ing heart attack.

If we're talking recreational drugs used to give guys a boost, again, I'd bet there are A LOT of NHL guys taking adderall. AFAIK the NHL is the only league that hasn't banned it. It's super common, super cheap, and accessible to basically anyone.