News Article: [Paywall] The NHL is shifting to more of a skill-first league, have the Maple Leafs over-corrected?

[nsleaf]

Since people keep bringing up the Boston series I'll throw around a couple of stats that those people might like.

Hits
Leafs 216
Bruins 221

Blocked shots
Leafs 102
Bruins 95

Giveaways
Leafs 79
Bruins 67

Takeaways
Leafs 66
Bruins 38

This was a close series but people around here make it seem like we got swept because of their physicality. It's quite reactionary and seems like an excuse to push a certain agenda by some posters.

Push an agenda?? Just folks offering different opinions.
Yep, the series was close but I think most who watched the series know that and do not need numerical confirmation like you seem to require.

 

[Liminality]

Push an agenda?? Just folks offering different opinions.
Yep, the series was close but I think most who watched the series know that and do not need numerical confirmation like you seem to require.

I don't require these numbers to know the series was close, this was for others who think this was a demolishing by the Bruins because of their massive physicality. Their bias might be a bit stronger in their eyes, maybe the numbers can help pull that back a bit.

 

[Peiskos]

Since people keep bringing up the Boston series I'll throw around a couple of stats that those people might like.

Hits
Leafs 216
Bruins 221

Blocked shots
Leafs 102
Bruins 95

Giveaways
Leafs 79
Bruins 67

Takeaways
Leafs 66
Bruins 38

This was a close series but people around here make it seem like we got swept because of their physicality. It's quite reactionary and seems like an excuse to push a certain agenda by some posters.

Ya the way people talk of the Bruins series here it sounds like they were pummelled into the ice every night, apart from the first 2 games it was a very even series, hits and blocked shots were all very even and from game 3 onward both teams scored 16 goals a piece.

Is Tampa Bay considered a physical tough team? I don't think they are, they're very similar to the Leafs in how they are built and they handled the Bruins fairly easily, I'd argue because they are more experienced. I view Tampa as what Toronto will be in a few short years with regards to playoff experience and poise.

I'd like to see another rematch of BOS-TOR, I give credit to the Bergeron line for shutting down the Matthews line but I would absolutely love to see how the Bruins would manage to shut down yet another line anchored by a franchise #1 centre with John Tavares now, I don't think they have the depth to do that night in and night out and it just shows how special it is for us to have landed JT and how teams with great offensive skill depth can defeat teams that are considered more tough and physical.

 

[ACC1224]

Since people keep bringing up the Boston series I'll throw around a couple of stats that those people might like.

Hits
Leafs 216
Bruins 221

Blocked shots
Leafs 102
Bruins 95

Giveaways
Leafs 79
Bruins 67

Takeaways
Leafs 66
Bruins 38

This was a close series but people around here make it seem like we got swept because of their physicality. It's quite reactionary and seems like an excuse to push a certain agenda by some posters.

People have an agenda on this? I thought all us fans wanted was for the team to win?

Not all hits are the same. I don't think anyone being honest with themselves came away from watching the Boston series with the thought that it was an equally matched series when it came to physicality.
I may be alone in this but to me part of the reason they lost this close series was because they lost the physical side of it. Had they held their own physically they would have came out on top.

 

[Liminality]

People have an agenda on this? I thought all us fans wanted was for the team to win?

Not all hits are the same. I don't think anyone being honest with themselves came away from watching the Boston series with the thought that it was an equally matched series when it came to physicality.
I may be alone in this but to me part of the reason they lost this close series was because they lost the physical side of it. Had they held their own physically they would have came out on top.

Having an agenda doesn't mean you don't want this team to win. I agree not all hits are the same but people act like our guys just got run over by the Bruins and didn't fight back.

There are a lot more reasons to why the Leafs lost other than physicality imo.

 

[ACC1224]

Having an agenda doesn't mean you don't want this team to win. I agree not all hits are the same but people act like our guys just got run over by the Bruins and didn't fight back.

There are a lot more reasons to why the Leafs lost other than physicality imo.

I guess I'm not seeing it. What is the agenda? Do I have one?

Yes there were other reasons, hopefully they address them all.

 

[FlareKnight]

You have to build a team with what you have. Focusing on what you don't have and chasing a different team ideal will just lead to go nowhere. The Leafs have high end skill and need to focus on letting that skill shine.

And really there is only so many spots to add these magical physical and yet actually skilled players. The center spot is locked in with Matthews, Tavares, and Kadri. You aren't upgrading on the first two and Kadri is already a physical enough player. I doubt you are replacing him with someone equally as skilled and more physical. The right side is also pretty secure in the top 6 with Marner and Nylander. If you have good upgrades in the bottom six over Kapanen, Brown, etc, then go for it. But how much better does the team get in the top 6 if you are upgrading physically on the bottom 6? So maybe at best you find a skilled and highly physical LW to upgrade on Hyman, Johnsson, or Marleau's spot that he's eventually going to move on from.

The Leafs didn't maximize their strengths in that Boston series until they were basically on the ropes. Try to chase and become Boston and you risk turning into Edmonton. The Leafs need to become the best of the Leafs they can. Not a lesser version of Boston. If they can find upgrades that bring some physical ability and skill then awesome. But otherwise stick to the type of team you have right now and make that better. Bring more skill that can't be matched up against.

 

[Liminality]

I guess I'm not seeing it. What is the agenda? Do I have one?

Yes there were other reasons, hopefully they address them all.

I'm not trying to single people out but the agenda I'm referring to is the idea that we have to bring in one or two of these tough guys to make our team physical. Or the idea that we can't win without having a Martin on the side lines sticking up for our players. I'd agree with the team physicality needing to go up but I personally think that's a part of the process for our young core growing up. You don't have to be 6'3 220 lbs to be tough in this league and we've got some smaller players who already show that.

I think it's the roster build that some people have problems with. People don't like our mostly skilled approach and call us the next Montreal smurfs.

 

[Jozay]

having some toughness would be nice, but not at the expense of skill.

I'd love a Matthew Tkachuk in our lineup.

 

[Stephen]

Very good point. I also add that people tend to presume that just because a guy is under 6 foot they somehow can’t be “tough” or they have to be a certain weight in order to be gritty

Yeah people assume if someone is under 6'0" they're a highly skilled player fitting with the new age style of play. That's also not necessarily true. I think we need more mental buy in from everyone, regardless of role, as well as few selective upgrades to add that size so we are a handful to play against in different ways.

 

[Stephen]

I'm not trying to single people out but the agenda I'm referring to is the idea that we have to bring in one or two of these tough guys to make our team physical. Or the idea that we can't win without having a Martin on the side lines sticking up for our players. I'd agree with the team physicality needing to go up but I personally think that's a part of the process for our young core growing up. You don't have to be 6'3 220 lbs to be tough in this league and we've got some smaller players who already show that.

I think it's the roster build that some people have problems with. People don't like our mostly skilled approach and call us the next Montreal smurfs.

But it doesn't make sense to have finesse players in all situations, because you need a blend of everything to deal with all game situations. Principally, our skill guys need the fortitude to play their games in tough situations. That's the main upgrade. But if you're asking me if we want a 4th line of Bracco, Timashov and Brooks, I don't think that's ideal either. Boston's middle 6, top 9 guys like Heinen, DeBrusk, etc. are just bigger, skilled, more versatile.

 

[saltming]

I agree fully.

You can't ice a team full of skilled waterbugs and think other teams won't expose your weaknesses.

Dubas is too young and naive at this time to understand the league will auto-correct and size with skill will always be the preferred team building strategy as size provides inherited advantage when it comes to winning puck battles. Physicality will always be a part of the NHL or we will soon be a figure skating league and teams will use their team toughness to force their will on small, soft teams to offset skill. I'm surprised Shanny a gritty player in his time and the exact style of player the Leafs lack today hasn't had more influence on his young GM or the Shanna-Plan doesn't have more teeth that can bite back on the roster.

Boston in last years playoffs made Matthews and Nylander invisible and irrelevant using size and toughness to nullify high-end skill. Instead of Leafs recognizing this they went even smaller and let all their few players with any form of grit in Komarov, Polak and Martin etc all go and are replacing them with Johnsson, Ennis and Carrick all players sub 6' and little to no intestinal fortitude.

Lou Lam with 30 years of experience quickly added Leo and Matt Martin to his NYI team understanding the importance of players with pushback ability or your skilled players will be intimidated and abused without retribution.

Babcock loves players that compete and can win puck battles and he will need more player personnel that allows his team to match up better against the opposition or its like bringing a Knife to a Gun fight and you will lose in the long run.

Ya I guess the team Dubas already built I the AHL got pushed around easily as the won they Calder cup

 

[Liminality]

But it doesn't make sense to have finesse players in all situations, because you need a blend of everything to deal with all game situations. Principally, our skill guys need the fortitude to play their games in tough situations. That's the main upgrade. But if you're asking me if we want a 4th line of Bracco, Timashov and Brooks, I don't think that's ideal either. Boston's middle 6, top 9 guys like Heinen, DeBrusk, etc. are just bigger, skilled, more versatile.

Not saying that we should kick out anyone who doesn't bring that finesse skill set. We have good multipurpose players and I'm sure that Babcock and Dubas collaborate on what the team needs and doesn't need when it comes to that.

Heinen and DeBrusk are not that much bigger. They're more energy/finesse guys imo.

 

[Alerion]

Without reading the rest of this thread (although I did read the article earlier this afternoon), it seems to me like Bourne wrote a clickbaity article to generate comments and clicks. I doubt he or much of The Athletic writers for TO put much stock in the theory because it's frankly untrue. Look at the Pittsburgh model.

 

[Menzinger]

Since people keep bringing up the Boston series I'll throw around a couple of stats that those people might like.

Hits
Leafs 216
Bruins 221

Blocked shots
Leafs 102
Bruins 95

Giveaways
Leafs 79
Bruins 67

Takeaways
Leafs 66
Bruins 38

This was a close series but people around here make it seem like we got swept because of their physicality. It's quite reactionary and seems like an excuse to push a certain agenda by some posters.

This is a very good point too, people really over exaggerate Boston’s physical domination of the leafs that series. And I think it causes them to learn the wrong lessons of what needs to be done for the team.

The only line that got really dominated was the Matthews one, and the biggest problem was simply he and Nylander didn’t have much room to get things going Any particular were being edged out of the high danger areas in Boston’s zone. But if you look deeper down the lineup the Leafs were very comfortable keeping up with Boston in terms of hits and puck battles.

Not to mention Boston was really able to dominate the Leafs on special teams, we’re physicality matters less as teams have more room to play ie that’s where Pasta lit up Andersen.

Funny to see some mentioned Tampa as a physical team but that doesnt accurately describe them at all, they’re primarily best described as a fast and highly skilled team, and interest only one that almost swept the Bruins.

 

[horner]

I've always said this but we need a player like Wayne Simmonds. Hopefully Grundstrom or Korshkov turn into a similar top 9 winger. Throw the body, pot some rubber

Josh Anderson
It will never happen .
Skilled
Loves to hit
Can fight
Tough as nails
Can slid up and down the lineup

 

[Knies iT]

They absolutely have over-corrected.

As for the "total hits" stats per series, they can be misleading. Compare hit totals between Komarov and Wilson for example, and tell me if you legitimately think current day Komarov has the same physical impact on the game - it's not even close. If you watched the cup finals between Wash-Vegas, its clear that even for two of the more skill focused teams in the league, it became a hugely physical series.

The key is to develop core players with sandpaper who will play more than 10 minutes/night and are competent enough to match up against other teams' elite players. Signing or trading for these guys is usually a bad idea, as the only times they are available is post-prime (e.g. Lucic, Clarkson, Ladd, soon to be Simmonds, etc. etc.).

Graduating Korshkov, Grundstrom, Borgman, Engvall, Ozighanov and deploying Leivo full-time will go a long way in adding size and grit to the roster. Hopefully one of them become a core piece because otherwise there's no real solution in sight.

 

[Morbo]

Tampa beat Boston easily. And I wouldn't call them an overly physical team.

 

[crump]

Probably should have gone after a tough 3rd line centre instead of Tavares

I get what the OP is saying, but I think the Leafs have done it right when they draft skill and trade for the spare parts they need. They can do the same with grit. They will have to see what kind of team they have out of camp before addressing unknown problems.

 

[Leafsman]

I find aspects of toughness vastly over-rated and others vastly under-valued. I find "grit" to be hugely over-valued and "resiliency" to be one of those widely under-appreciated traits. A Marner will never be a tough-gritty player but he can learn to be a resilient player.

A team that can throw hits and keeps pushing the physical play will never be as good as the team that can take hits and keep on pushing the offense.

This team is another year older, the young guys are another year tougher. They've witnessed the physicality of a playoff series and have an off-season to adjust accordingly. Hits are fun and all but will never be as fun as winning. I much rather this team continue with their current trajectory but learn how to deal with a physical team without changing their gameplan. This team has to learn to absorb physical play but continue with their skill and finesse play.

 

[Rielly4]

I definitely feel Marchment could be the best option for 4th line LW for this reason. The kid is tough and he can play.

I think Leivo deserves the 4LW role more but i think Marchment might be the better fit because of toughness.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Grew up loving Tucker, and can see Hyman developing into a similar type player.

I think we need to go out and get a guy like Boone Jenner who can add size and strength to the line up and maybe a Guy like Gudas as well...

Leafs - Blue Jackets
Andreas Johnsson (skill), Calle Rosen (LHD), 3rd for Boone Jenner

Leafs - Flyers
2nd & Calvin Pickard for Radko Gudas​

Flyers get a 2nd and Goalie with Potential which they need for a d-man they dont really need anymore, Columbus gets a skilled winger to add to their offence, they are already a pretty big team so the addition of a fast offensively gifted winger should help, they also get a LHD to play behind Werenski and Murray

Marleau - Matthews - Nylander
Jenner - - - Tavares - - - Marner
Hyman - - - Kadri - - - Kapanen
Ennis/Leivo - Gauthier - Brown

Rielly - - - - Gudas
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Hainsey

The leafs get more annoying to play against while remaining amongst the fastest, most skilled teams in the entire league. Marleau and Jenner could be switched around, and I think the Goat wins the 4 C spot out of training camp this season.

Yes I know, GUDAS IS NOT A TOP PAIRING D-MAN. However he can play top 4 IMO and is the type of guy who could just stay back and allow Rielly to do his thing. This also allows Hainsey to mentor Dermott, while limiting his 5 vs 5 ice time so hes rested for the PK.

Side Note:
That Third Line would be NASTY to play against!


​

 

[Mickey Marner]

Easier to add grit to skill, than skill to grit.

 

[Stephen]

Tampa beat Boston easily. And I wouldn't call them an overly physical team.

Well ironically, they beat Boston by playing a very heavy game against them, and many of their skill guys led the way: Point was fearless, Stamkos hit everything that moved to a comical degree, Killorn (their JVR equivalent) was a bulldozer, Stralman was his usually underrated chippy self, etc.

You basically need a total buy in to overcome the lack of physicality and size from all your guys.

The other half of the equation is you want to have guys on your team who can hurt the other team on routine plays. The more your grinders lay the body, the less healthy your opposition gets. The Pat Quinn era teams used to always take runs at Wade Redden, and by the end of the series he'd be out of gas and banged up.

 

[IPS]

People have an agenda on this? I thought all us fans wanted was for the team to win?

Not all hits are the same. I don't think anyone being honest with themselves came away from watching the Boston series with the thought that it was an equally matched series when it came to physicality.
I may be alone in this but to me part of the reason they lost this close series was because they lost the physical side of it. Had they held their own physically they would have came out on top.

We came back from 3-1 down in the series when we finally decided to stop playing their game and start playing our game.

The first two games of the series were brutal. Polak, Komarov and Martin would have done NOTHING to change them.