Patrick

[Psuhockey]

The stats don't back that up and neither does the eye test.



Maybe you're being fooled by the goaltending, which makes every single mistake end up as a goal against. Happens to every single player, but most have goalies who bail them out once in a while.

Trading Patrick is an indefensible suggestion, especially for defensemen.

If you think this defense is having a good year, I have no idea what you are watching. This is where the stats are breaking down just like when the stats said Matt Carle is a as good as Ryan Suter. The goaltending has been bad no doubt but thinking the Flyers have 3 guys playing like top pair defensemen this season is ridiculous.

 

[Tripod]

Tavares was a much much much better prospect than Patrick.

Yeah but at least
I read somewhere that Patrick would be as good as Tavares by the end of the year.

 

[skagittarius]

I’ve seen none of those from Patrick. If there’s disappointment it’s mainly expectations-driven.

Some may not be disappointed in his overall play, but certainly there's got to be some disappointment in his lack of production (particularly this season) and of course that disappointment is expectations driven. It's not based on hope. He's a #2 overall pick and was a 1.25 point per game player in the WHL. That noted, I'm not very concerned yet about his lack of production. I think he will be on a similar path as Couturier took.

 

[renberg]

The Flyers/Hextall/Hakstol bungled the Patrick situation from the beginning. At the start of his first year he was physically not ready to play at NHL due to his surgery. When he was playing he should have been used as the 3C with minimal d-zone starts until he could show that he deserved more prominent usage. This didn't happen because, as was too often the case, the PTB decided to pound a square peg into a round hole and force the kid into a role to which he was unprepared.
Now his confidence is shot. He plays as if he is lost on the ice. He needs a complete rebuild. The best move might be to send him back down to have him re-set his psyche. Hopefully the coaching staff going forward will do a better job developing his skills. He's given us glimpses of them already.
Patrick is going to be a player in this league. Probably more of a Keith Primeau type, which isn't that bad at all. He's not a McDavid, Eichel or Matthews but that's a problem for the fans for expecting him to be more than he is. He is not a Pavel Brendl. He's just a 20 year old who has had injuries so far in his career; while trying to break into the league on a team that is short of talent in critical areas and been badly mismanaged.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Patrick and Lindblom were both thriving during that first west coast trip when they played together. Patrick also thrived on the first PP unit last year.

Its so frustrating.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I'm trying to decide whether the Nolan Patrick hot takes are worse than the "We need a top 4 defenseman" hot takes, or vice versa. Right now they are in a dead heat which is scalding hot.

 

[Striiker]

I'm trying to decide whether the Nolan Patrick hot takes are worse than the "We need a top 4 defenseman" hot takes, or vice versa. Right now they are in a dead heat which is scalding hot.

Toss the “this team lacks talent”, “trade Ghost”, and “trade Voracek” hot takes in there too.

When the team isn’t playing well there’s a whole lot of panicky garbage on here.

 

[Peacekeeper]

It's hard to judge a young player this year on this crappy team. Sure, he hasn't been mind blowing.. but give him another off season. He could work on his acceleration and build more strength to shield the puck.

He seems to be a good fit on pp1 in his limited opportunity. That alone will build some confidence and having more structured coaching will help these young players out

 

[wankstifier]

If you think this defense is having a good year, I have no idea what you are watching. This is where the stats are breaking down just like when the stats said Matt Carle is a as good as Ryan Suter. The goaltending has been bad no doubt but thinking the Flyers have 3 guys playing like top pair defensemen this season is ridiculous.

It’s amazing how impactful that one bad article about Carle has had on fans’ perception of statistics...

This just looks at shots and goals allowed:

If the Flyers had just league average goaltending, they’d be ~8th in fewest total goals allowed. The defense has allowed the 5th fewest shots on goal in the league.

I think you underestimate how bad the goalie situation has been.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Needs to be put on the wing for a bit

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Needs to be put on the wing for a bit

I agree, but they may be hesitant to do so because of his faceoffs.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

It’s amazing how impactful that one bad article about Carle has had on fans’ perception of statistics...

This just looks at shots and goals allowed:

If the Flyers had just league average goaltending, they’d be ~8th in fewest total goals allowed. The defense has allowed the 5th fewest shots on goal in the league.

I think you underestimate how bad the goalie situation has been.

Cmon this stats nonsense is getting ridiculous. You can model whatever you want but you put prime Hasek in front of our pk and he still wouldn't be able to post average sv%. Also what do I care if we allow 8th least corsi against or whatever if our offense is 8th worst at the same time and half of those are muffins from the blue line.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Needs to be put on the wing for a bit

Season is lost anyway. Why not do right by the kid and have him build his game in LV and go on a playoff run with them. After all G, Richie and Carter all played some in the minors.

 

[bobbythebrain]

I agree, but they may be hesitant to do so because of his faceoffs.

He can still take draws being a winger. But you're prob right. This team isn't smart enough to do what makes sense so they will continue w/ the status quo

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Season is lost anyway. Why not do right by the kid and have him build his game in LV and go on a playoff run with them. After all G, Richie and Carter all played some in the minors.

Might not be a bad idea to send Patrick and Lindblom both to the Phantoms.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Season is lost anyway. Why not do right by the kid and have him build his game in LV and go on a playoff run with them. After all G, Richie and Carter all played some in the minors.

They played like 5 games in the AHL, early on. Patrick has been in the NHL for 1.5 seasons, so sending him back may be counter productive at this point

He has shown he plays the right way, understands systems, his position and the defensive side of the game. He just lacks offensively at this point

Putting him on the wing w/ less responsibility and more focus for offense would be better than sending him down imo

 

[wankstifier]

Cmon this stats nonsense is getting ridiculous. You can model whatever you want but you put prime Hasek in front of our pk and he still wouldn't be able to post average sv%. Also what do I care if we allow 8th least corsi against or whatever if our offense is 8th worst at the same time and half of those are muffins from the blue line.

I was only looking at raw goals and shots against in all situations.

 

[nuclear reactor]

Needs to be put on the wing for a bit

Vorobyev’s wing.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

They played like 5 games in the AHL, early on. Patrick has been in the NHL for 1.5 seasons, so sending him back may be counter productive at this point

He has shown he plays the right way, understands systems, his position and the defensive side of the game. He just lacks offensively at this point

Putting him on the wing w/ less responsibility and more focus for offense would be better than sending him down imo

So the difference between Patrick executing on plays or not is putting him in position he has never played in his life? Why haven't we done the same thing with Couts. He would be the best 5on5 winger in the league. Such a waste smh.

 

[bobbythebrain]

So the difference between Patrick executing on plays or not is putting him in position he has never played in his life? Why haven't we done the same thing with Couts. He would be the best 5on5 winger in the league. Such a waste smh.

Draisaitl, Carter, Stamkos, G, RNH, Richards, Malkin, Seguin, etc,etc,etc

All have played wing early in their careers, or have been switched to wing to get them going. This is common practice in the NHL, so no need for the sarcasm.
You do realize not everyone has to follow "Coots" career path right?

Nothing wrong with allowing him to see the ice from a different level before you decide to punt him back down to the AHL

If he was skating around aimlessly like Yakupov, then ya, send him down to learn how to play. But he's not. He plays a rather responsible and structured game. He just needs to get his offense going

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Draisaitl, Carter, Stamkos, G, RNH, Richards, Malkin, Seguin, etc,etc,etc

All have played wing early in their careers, or have been switched to wing to get them going. This is common practice in the NHL, so no need for the sarcasm.
You do realize not everyone has to follow "Coots" career path right?

Nothing wrong with allowing him to see the ice from a different level before you decide to punt him back down to the AHL

Here's a thing though. Gordon is interim and he doesn't give a shit about future or development. All he cares about is winning and he is gonna ride vets all the way. Put Patrick in LV and whole offense runs through him.

 

[Appleyard]

If you think this defense is having a good year, I have no idea what you are watching. This is where the stats are breaking down just like when the stats said Matt Carle is a as good as Ryan Suter. The goaltending has been bad no doubt but thinking the Flyers have 3 guys playing like top pair defensemen this season is ridiculous.

Either 13 years of stats are all completely wrong (and my eyes tbh...) or the Flyers are the biggest outlier ever.

They are heading for the worst sv% in 20 years... they have the worst goalie in the NHL over the last three seasons in Neuvirth...

and what is more, when Elliott has been in net the underlying stats completely reflect his sv%, GA/60 etc.

So unless the team play like a top ten defense in front of Elliott... but one of the worst in NHL for the other bad/unproven goalies... with would be quite a coincidence...


I think it is more likely that Neuvirth (worst goalie stats in NHL with 50+ games in last 3 years), Pickard (3rd worst goalies stats in NHL with 50+ games in last 3 years), Lyon and Stolarz (both career NHL stats well below average, with backup potential at best) are simply not good at all in the NHL yet have started 60% of the teams games this year.

Especially since last year the stats were close to identical as this year, but results way, way better at 5v5.

They had the 7th best GA/60 at 5v5 last year... completely in line with ALL the stats.
All the other stats are the same this year... apart from sv%.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Either 13 years of stats are all completely wrong (and my eyes tbh...) or the Flyers are the biggest outlier ever.

They are heading for the worst sv% in 20 years... they have the worst goalie in the NHL over the last three seasons in Neuvirth...

and what is more, when Elliott has been in net the underlying stats completely reflect his sv%, GA/60 etc.

So unless the team play like a top ten defense in front of Elliott... but one of the worst in NHL for the other bad/unproven goalies... with would be quite a coincidence...


I think it is more likely that Neuvirth (worst goalie stats in NHL with 50+ games in last 3 years), Pickard (3rd worst goalies stats in NHL with 50+ games in last 3 years), Lyon and Stolarz (both career NHL stats well below average, with backup potential at best) are simply not good at all in the NHL yet have started 60% of the teams games this year.

Especially since last year the stats were close to identical as this year, but results way, way better at 5v5.

They had the 7th best GA/60 at 5v5 last year... completely in line with ALL the stats.
All the other stats are the same this year... apart from sv%.

Good thing our gm was a goalie and new how big of an impact that position entails.

 

[Appleyard]

Good thing our gm was a goalie and new how big of an impact that position entails.

I mean, to highlight it:

 

[Dumpster Flyers]

The stats don't back that up and neither does the eye test.



Maybe you're being fooled by the goaltending, which makes every single mistake end up as a goal against. Happens to every single player, but most have goalies who bail them out once in a while.

Trading Patrick is an indefensible suggestion, especially for defensemen.

So you're telling me Hakstol was an elite defensive coach?