CFHF Fantasy League Part IV - General Chat

[MarkGio]

Is it from a phone? Request a desktop version

 

[MarkGio]

Maybe there's some supporting software, such as Flash or an update on your browser that's needed. Or try a different browser

 

[tfong]

I posted, so thr page works, just cant see entries.

 

[tfong]

Works now!

 

[Anglesmith]

Works now!

Yes! I.... erm... fixed it.

If you did anything to help (), please post the solution for Autograph.

Glad it's working for you.

 

[MarkGio]

Works now!

You turned on your monitor to get it, didn't you?

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

Ladies and gentleman, I present to you, the new rule:


Many people have expressed through PM and on this thread that they are dissatisfied of so many prospects being taken in the regular draft. Hopefully this rule helps that! It should be the medium of the two groups.

As everyone knows, if an NHL team doesn't sign their prospect(s) by [insert year here], they would re-enter the draft. Well, we are going to try to implement this into our fantasy league.

If a prospect doesn't play 40 games in the NHL, he would enter into the prospect draft.

Also, if someone doesn't use a keeper on a prospect, they would enter into the prospect draft (ex: Elias Lindholm, Sean Monahan, or Rasmus Risto)

This only applies to prospects in the current draft class (ie: 2013 for this year; 2014 for next year).


As always, we will always re-arrange this rule if this does not not satisfy anyone in the league.

 

[King In The North]

If you chose a prospect during the regular draft and plan on keeping him in the future, he acts like any other roster player taken in the draft, regardless of games played imo.

If Drouin only plays 9 games and gets sent down, I should have the option to use a roster spot (ie, keep a roster spot empty or leave him on my team for the entire year) and decide whether I use a keeper spot on him for the following season. If I drop him and don't keep a roster spot empty in place for him, then he should become UFA, and any team can grab him.

That's as fair as I think it can be. You take a risk selecting a prospect. You can minimize the effect by dropping him and picking another player up as a replacement thus ending your ownership with the prospect. Or you can be at a disadvantage and be down 1 roster spot.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Alright, here's the part of the site which prompted the wiki in the first place:

List of trades!

Some GMs (I'm looking at you, MVW) made this an exhausting task to be sure. Let me know if I got the conditions right on those conditional picks.

3 words, it wasn't me.

Seriously, I really wanted to put my own stamp on my team and make it my own. I do have a method to the madness.

 

[Anglesmith]

If a prospect doesn't play 40 games in the NHL, he would enter into the prospect draft.

Also, if someone doesn't use a keeper on a prospect, they would enter into the prospect draft (ex: Elias Lindholm, Sean Monahan, or Rasmus Risto)

With all due respect, what was this supposed to address? If the prospect picked in the main draft doesn't play 40 games, the GM has already been punished with a season of uselessness out of one of his players. And on the second rule, if a GM thought that a prospect was worth taking in the main draft, then it is virtually certain that someone we'll think he's worth taking in the main draft a year later, too. Unless you're saying he would be ineligible for the following main draft.

 

[tfong]

Ladies and gentleman, I present to you, the new rule:


Many people have expressed through PM and on this thread that they are dissatisfied of so many prospects being taken in the regular draft. Hopefully this rule helps that! It should be the medium of the two groups.

As everyone knows, if an NHL team doesn't sign their prospect(s) by [insert year here], they would re-enter the draft. Well, we are going to try to implement this into our fantasy league.

If a prospect doesn't play 40 games in the NHL, he would enter into the prospect draft.

Also, if someone doesn't use a keeper on a prospect, they would enter into the prospect draft (ex: Elias Lindholm, Sean Monahan, or Rasmus Risto)

This only applies to prospects in the current draft class (ie: 2013 for this year; 2014 for next year).


As always, we will always re-arrange this rule if this does not not satisfy anyone in the league.

What? I don't get it. So I have to use one of my 9 keeper picks on any prospects I've just picked up right now?

Or do you mean say if Drouin doesn't play in 2013-2014, he goes into our next year prospect draft? That also doesn't seem to make sense because then you have two draft classes per prospect year.

This seems to just complicate things, why wouldn't we just leave it as it is now? If people want to take the risk of picking up a draftee using their normal pick they can at the risk of losing the player to free market or whatever if the draftee doesn't play and the GM keeps him, he is penalized by having that player take up a roster spot but not producing anyways. Or like any of the non-nhl ready prospects, they will get picked during the prospect draft and you would have long term protection on him.

This doesn't affect teams that have already picked up a draftee because we can use keepers on them anyways and still pick up guys like McDavid in the regular draft, this doesn't change it at all. If we were in 2015, I could still pick McDavid and in my regular draft, thus defeating the whole point of this new rule anyways.

Like I mentioned before, if you want to protect prospects longer have the prospect draft BEFORE the main draft.

But protecting prospects too much can lead to unbalancing of the league. Think of a guy with 9 keepers + 13 prospects, picks up 13 players in the normal draft, he has now tied up 35 players in the league. Eventually we will run out of guys to even draft because everyone could be a "prospect" or a keeper but no players hit the free market.

 

[Anglesmith]

I have to ask: if the problem is simply that there aren't enough good players in the prospect draft, why not open it up to any hockey player not currently belonging to any team, following the typical prospect rules? What purpose is served by restricting it to exactly one year? I could make a wiki page with a list of all owned players, which would eliminate the issue of keeping track of which players are available (if that's the issue).

 

[MarkGio]

I think there's a lot of random ideas being thrown around, and while I don't pretend to be an expert on the subject, I think we need to establish a goal regarding prospects and therefore establish ideas to achieve it.

Are we trying to limit which players get selected as prospects to recent drafts that have already taken place? Are we trying to limit it to this years draft? Are we trying to allow users to keep prospects long enough to get a full productive season from them? What's productive? And are we trying to keep this as logistically easy to manage as possible?

Now I ask why the rules are made and how that meets the goals?

 

[tfong]

I think there's a lot of random ideas being thrown around, and while I don't pretend to be an expert on the subject, I think we need to establish a goal regarding prospects and therefore establish ideas to achieve it.

Are we trying to limit which players get selected as prospects to recent drafts that have already taken place? Are we trying to allow users to keep prospects long enough to get a full productive season from them? What's productive? And are we trying to keep this as logistically easy to manage as possible?

Now I ask why the rules are made and how that meets the goals?

Stop trying to be reasonable

Hahah jk

also I'm not sure why my phone displays the wiki correctly now, maybe the mobile version takes longer to update? Dunno.

 

[KiwiFlamesFan]

Alright, here's the part of the site which prompted the wiki in the first place:

List of trades!

Some GMs (I'm looking at you, MVW) made this an exhausting task to be sure. Let me know if I got the conditions right on those conditional picks.

Just noticed something. The trade between myself (GTN) and TFG (Flaming Horse Heads) on Aug 23rd had a 3rd rnd prospect pick (2014) going to him, not a 2nd rnd as stated on the wiki page.

Cheers

 

[Anglesmith]

I think there's a lot of random ideas being thrown around, and while I don't pretend to be an expert on the subject, I think we need to establish a goal regarding prospects and therefore establish ideas to achieve it.

Are we trying to limit which players get selected as prospects to recent drafts that have already taken place? Are we trying to limit it to this years draft? Are we trying to allow users to keep prospects long enough to get a full productive season from them? What's productive? And are we trying to keep this as logistically easy to manage as possible?

Now I ask why the rules are made and how that meets the goals?

Personally, I don't think that anything's going to get done unless we can come up with a motivational mission statement.

 

[tfong]

I think as a whole, people are miffed because they feel they were mislead into the value or prospect picks or the prospect draft.

On a whole we could eliminate the whole prospect rights thing and keep it simple.

9 keepers, 10 if you win any players that are already drafted in the NHL are eligible. Maybe having a prospects draft and the whole rights thing (while interesting and simulates more real life) is just making things too complicated. If you want to pick an NHL draftee and hope they make the NHL good, if they don't make the NHL then its your wasted draft selection.

This also recycles the the free market pool faster since we only get our keepers and no other players at the end of the season. It creates more parity. The prospect system that is in place could create dynasties (depending if you want them or not)

 

[Anglesmith]

I think as a whole, people are miffed because they feel they were mislead into the value or prospect picks or the prospect draft.

On a whole we could eliminate the whole prospect rights thing and keep it simple.

9 keepers, 10 if you win. Maybe having a prospects draft and the whole rights thing (while interesting and simulates more real life) is just making things too complicated.

I disagree. Very strongly. I believe that the prospect draft is what makes the keeper league worthwhile. With the 100 game limit, I feel like prospects are really powerful. If you pick right, you can wait for the guy to become a valuable, contributing player, and then he just walks right into your lineup. That sort of impact is not limited to the top 5 draft choices.

 

[tfong]

I disagree. Very strongly. I believe that the prospect draft is what makes the keeper league worthwhile. With the 100 game limit, I feel like prospects are really powerful. If you pick right, you can wait for the guy to become a valuable, contributing player, and then he just walks right into your lineup. That sort of impact is not limited to the top 5 draft choices.

It depends if we're going for a fantasy league that each year someone different has a change to win or a long term building league where the development of prospects can lead to dynasties.

 

[MarkGio]

Why is there a concern with a dwindling of talent pool? There's 18 users and 3 picks per round (54), while 210 new prospects enter the league each year. Plus we started when there was 5 years worth of prospects in the system already, AND they eventually lose their retained rights.

 

[Anglesmith]

It depends if we're going for a fantasy league that each year someone different has a change to win or a long term building league where the development of prospects can lead to dynasties.

I'd say we're going for the most realistic league possible. If you're bad, the system helps you get good. If you're good, you can create a dynasty, but you have to make good moves to do so.

Frankly, I think that without the prospects, cellar-dwellers would be in a pretty bad position. Sure, they get first choice in the main draft, but what are the odds that the player you get is that much better than your 9 keepers? It's hard to turn your franchise around if you aren't able to keep prospects.

To me, the system as it is creates a good balance- you can turn your team around through a rebuild (unlike a normal keeper league as you suggest), but you can't simply turn it around overnight (like in a non-keeper league).

 

[MarkGio]

Personally, I don't think that anything's going to get done unless we can come up with a motivational mission statement.

I'll get started on writing the organizational policies and programs. Hours of work, privacy agreements, the security program, all that. We need more stuff to get us confused!

 

[Anglesmith]

I'll get started on writing the organizational policies and programs. Hours of work, privacy agreements, the security program, all that. We need more stuff to get us confused!

Can we put together a focus group and a task force for this? Maybe a think-tank? I don't think we've brainstormed enough.

 

[tfong]

I'd say we're going for the most realistic league possible. If you're bad, the system helps you get good. If you're good, you can create a dynasty, but you have to make good moves to do so.

Frankly, I think that without the prospects, cellar-dwellers would be in a pretty bad position. Sure, they get first choice in the main draft, but what are the odds that the player you get is that much better than your 9 keepers? It's hard to turn your franchise around if you aren't able to keep prospects.

To me, the system as it is creates a good balance- you can turn your team around through a rebuild (unlike a normal keeper league as you suggest), but you can't simply turn it around overnight (like in a non-keeper league).

Ok so the solution I maintain is that we hold the prospect draft BEFORE the main draft. That way it gives more value to prospect picks AND people can protect the best prospects from each year. (Eckblad, MacKinnon, McDavid etc...)

Just remember that means whomever drafts McDavid essentially has a free keeper pick for 2 seasons (100 games).

So you keep 9 non-prospects plus X amount of prospects. That definitely makes the game more simulation like and long term.

 

[Anglesmith]

Ok so the solution I maintain is that we hold the prospect draft BEFORE the main draft. That way it gives more value to prospect picks AND people can protect the best prospects from each year. (Eckblad, MacKinnon, McDavid etc...)

Just remember that means whomever drafts McDavid essentially has a free keeper pick for 2 seasons (100 games).

So you keep 9 non-prospects plus X amount of prospects. That definitely makes the game more simulation like and long term.

That's a good solution, I guess. I did have an objection to it, but I can't quite remember it at the moment.