Part 6: True North Sports & Entertainment's efforts to acquire an NHL team (Winnipeg)

[Donwood]

coach's corner closing:

Cherry: Winnipeg, get ready
MacLean: Habs have the jets in the first period, and winnipeg will have theirs soon.

I can't take much more, Bettman for heavens sakes spell it out give Glendale 48 hours then confirm Winnipeg

 

[Donwood]

actually, this is a ballsy move by the NHL to kick Hulsizer in the butt and make him do something. It says as much in the article.

It also makes a statement to GWI to try to make things seem inevitable.

But in the end, it's TNSE going after early sponsorship from corporations.

What'll be interesting is how the Moose will react to all the rumor mongoring. Out in the first round with no push?

I doubt it will effect the Moose, I mean they are primarily Vancouver farm hands so this won't impact them a lot. They hope to be playing in the NHL anywhere next season.

 

[kdb209]

Well somebody isseriously incorrect.
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/boards/thread.php?thread_id=70166
October 24 @ 1:10 AM ET

League Average $51.41
Anaheim $43.50
Atlanta $48.51
Boston $54.94
Buffalo $36.43
Calgary $59.73
Carolina $38.38
Chicago $46.80
Colorado $40.62
Columbus $47.66
Dallas $35.66
Detroit $46.60
Edmonton $59.71
Florida $48.76
Los Angeles $47.20
Minnesota $61.28
Montreal $72.18
Nashville $48.36
New Jersey $48.05
NY Rangers $58.57
NY Islanders $51.46
Ottawa $52.77
Philadelphia $60.25
Phoenix $37.45
Pittsburgh $55.55
San Jose $43.07
St. Louis $37.90
Tampa Bay $35.76
toronto $117.49
Vancouver $62.05
Washington $44.75

AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!

It's been a while.

[Standard TMR Disclaimer]
Those numbers are from Team Marketing Report - which has been debunked numerous times here as being wildly inaccurate for many teams due to methodological flaws.

Wait, you're basing this on the "leaked" Globe & Mail report, right?

Yes - and simple analysis done of actual Colorado (ColoradoHockeyFan) and San Jose (myself) ticket prices.

This post by CHF shows the flaw in TMRs methodology after they changed it in 2001 to arbitrarily exclude "premium" seats.

No. That is a BAD place to find pricing info.

The bogus numbers on the Team Marketing Report site have been debunked numerous times on the BoH board.

Probably the best (and possibly the only) numbers you are going to find for avg ticket prices were the numbers leaked last year in the Globe & Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/v5/content/pdf/NHLweb.pdf

Thank you. (And thanks to Fugu too.)

Continue to spread the message about the worthlessness of Team Marketing Report, and we will eventually triumph over misinformation! Can I get a hallelujah!

And to further the cause, here is the sorted version of the accurate numbers from that Globe and Mail link:

Average ticket prices by team
Team                   2006-07  2005-06
Toronto Maple Leafs    80.33    78.98
Colorado Avalanche     71.04    65.55
New York Rangers       63.53    54.19
Dallas Stars           61.43    58.37
Edmonton Oilers        61.14    50.20
Montreal Canadiens     60.82    58.74
Boston Bruins          59.71    56.61
Vancouver Canucks      58.74    56.24
Detroit Red Wings      56.95    56.72
Columbus Blue Jackets  56.07    53.77
Philadelphia Flyers    54.59    51.94
Minnesota Wild         54.54    51.18
Anaheim Ducks          52.25    49.79
San Jose Sharks        50.95    49.05
Calgary Flames         50.70    46.97
Ottawa Senators        50.38    45.30
New Jersey Devils      49.91    48.97
Los Angeles Kings      46.75    44.17
New York Islanders     45.04    46.30
Carolina Hurricanes    44.91    38.81
Tampa Bay Lightning    44.50    42.38
Phoenix Coyotes        43.60    45.66
Chicago Blackhawks     40.79    39.74
Nashville Predators    40.33    34.74
Florida Panthers       39.75    44.59
Washington Capitals    39.57    36.16
St. Louis Blues        39.50    35.23
Pittsburgh Penguins    38.62    38.05
Atlanta Thrashers      37.27    32.70
Buffalo Sabres         36.67    36.37
League average         52.13    49.31

Edit: An additional note on one of the reasons that Team Marketing Report's numbers are bogus. Sometime around the 2000-2001 season, they inexplicably decided to stop including anything termed "premium seating" in their average ticket prices. This immediately invalidates their numbers because of the way in which they collect their data--from marketing reps of the respective teams. Each team is allowed to label as "premium seating" any portion of their arena. So a team like Colorado, for example, can simply say that the entire lower bowl is "premium," and exclude it from the average, which is how you wind up with their laughable (made-up) "average" ticket price of under $40!

Edit: For a clear illustration of the effect of the above artificial calculation of average ticket price, observe the historical prices reported by TMR documented here:

http://andrewsstarspage.com/NHL-Business/ticket-prices.htm

Note the average ticket prices reported for Colorado during the 2000-01 season and the 2001-02 season. According to TMR, the average ticket price dropped that year from $63.11 in 2000-01 to $37.36 in 2001-02. In other words, TMR would have you believe that the Avs, coming off of a Stanley Cup winning season, with one of the best single seasons ever put together by an NHL team, not only decided to drop their ticket prices (laughable enough), but decided to drop them by an unheard of 41%! (clearly more laughable). As a season ticket-holder for the past 12 years, I can assure you that no such thing happened (not that I needed to tell you this). There was no drop, obviously. There was an increase (also obviously). The artificial numbers reported by TMR that year (and every year thereafter) are simply the result of the seat classification flaw mentioned above in this post.

[/Standard TMR Disclaimer]

 

[leafs4cup]

Lived in winnipeg from 94-2009,now living in ontario,come to winnipeg every month to see my daughter.(I,m in )for 2 been waiting for this for a long time! Gonna make a Jets fan outa her,

 

[ThrasherMinion]

Does anyone else find it interesting that yesterday, Bill Daly said there was nothing to Phoenix deal being done, yet today, he kind of nods approval to this season ticket balloon float????

 

[Donwood]

Does anyone else find it interesting that yesterday, Bill Daly said there was nothing to Phoenix deal being done, yet today, he kind of nods approval to this season ticket balloon float????

It is odd but what hasn't in this longggggggg saga. I think the NHL wants this over as much as anyone else.

 

[Shanny]

GET READY WINNIPEG!

 

[wpgallday1960]

Based on the last pre-season game held in Winnipeg the prices would approx. be:

$39 = $1638
$49 = $2058
$59 = $2478
$79 = $3318
$99 = $4158
$119 = $4998

The $59 seats are very doable. Me & my buddy are in. Nothing confirmed yet but let's pray it happens.

 

[molsonmuscle360]

Tickets in Edmonton really aren't that badly priced, especially considering the usual cost of entertainment in the province. You have to remember the amount of money that people make is much higher on average in Alberta. I know guys here in Fort Mac that gladly drive the 4 hours each way or even fly down to Edmonton at least once a week to catch a game. Even the corporate tickets aren't that bad. I had tickets from my mom's work a few times and they were in the 12th row of the lower bowl in the Oilers end and were like $125 or something like that on the face.

 

[Le Golie]

I've got 10 friends, sharing six seats. Expecting each to be about $4000/year. Can't wait to put the deposit down for three years. Can't wait!

 

[mygameworn]

I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of announcement to be made when and if the Yotes are eliminated from the playoffs.

 

[AWSAA]

TSN's Jets meter just spiked.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/jetsmeter/

 

[MAROONSRoad]

TSN's Jets meter just spiked.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/jetsmeter/

I was just about to post that.



GHOST

 

[SabFanInOtt]

Great news! I'm sure selling tickets will be a slam dunk. Loved the Jets but I am trying not to set myself up for the exact same letdown that happened last off season when the Coyotes didn't move. Hopefully the Red Wings sweep as they will never announce anything while the team is still in the playoffs. Tick-tock....

 

[blueandgoldguy]

FWIW, both Columbus and Toronto require prospective season ticket buyers to buy Personal Seat Licenses. Columbus also required a 5 year commitment with the PSLs, when they were trying to get the franchise. Each PSL was about the same cost as the season in that seat. They sold about 15,000 PSLs.

Also, after that initial 5 year period, if the season tickets weren't renewed, the PSLs were forfeited.

With the 5 year commitments in Columbus did season ticket holders have to pay 25% for all 5 seasons upfront...........or 25% for the first season and some small nominal amount for the remaining four...........or something else?

I've looked at a few teams' websites in the past and it seems 20-25% down payment for season tickets is the norm followed by monthly payments over the next 6 - 8 months to pay off the balance.

 

[bodybreak]

A 3 yr term is pretty normal for a cell phone contract... you pay monthly, and only require one down payment (sometimes $0!). I suspect with NHL tickets, you will be locked in to a commitment of 3 years, with a single down payment (20-25% of one year's seats) as well. The rest of the balance owing would be split into monthly charges (balance divided by number of months).

 

[bodybreak]

More leaks / dominoes falling into place...

AHL has a Plan B if NHL team returns to Winnipeg
JAMES MIRTLE
From Friday's Globe and Mail
Published Thursday, Apr. 14, 2011 10:54PM EDT

There’s nothing official, not with the Phoenix Coyotes still playing in the NHL playoffs, but signs continue to mount that the troubled club is closer to moving to Winnipeg.

American Hockey League commissioner Dave Andrews said Thursday that he is in discussions with Manitoba Moose owner Mark Chipman about where Winnipeg’s AHL franchise could play if the Coyotes relocate to the city.

Andrews said the AHL has had a contingency plan in place since last year, when talk began that the NHL franchise could return to Winnipeg.

Two or three cities have expressed interest in having a minor-league team, but any move would involve input from the Moose’s parent franchise, the Vancouver Canucks.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...-nhl-team-returns-to-winnipeg/article1986416/

 

[Hank Chinaski]

A 3 yr term is pretty normal for a cell phone contract... you pay monthly, and only require one down payment (sometimes $0!). I suspect with NHL tickets, you will be locked in to a commitment of 3 years, with a single down payment (20-25% of one year's seats) as well. The rest of the balance owing would be split into monthly charges (balance divided by number of months).

I'm hoping this is the case.

I can't drop $1500+ in one shebang on STs, but a 25% deposit on a single season is more than doable.

 

[bodybreak]

I should add the reason for my explanation is this is how TNSE has done business with its AHL season / mini-pack accounts.

 

[Metzen]

I would like to quote myself here regarding the Oiler's ticket prices/revenue's analysis I've done (probably the closest comparison to Winnipeg)

Some more revenue information about the Oilers to share:

This means the arena generates ~36% of it's ticket revenues from non-hockey related events and 64% for NHL related events... ...the Oilers collect an estimated $4.1M from ticket surcharges that isn't accounted in any calculations so far.

Using the estimated $4.1M number, we can break down the average ticket price. If we go by the Forbe's value of $55 (aka, full 7% surcharge collected), the actual ticket price should be ~$51.40 (55/1.07) meaning the surcharge generates the Oiler's $3.60 per ticket. In order to collect $4.1M in surcharges the Oilers need to sell 1,138,889 tickets in a season. Divided by 44 (41+3preseason) home games equals 25,883 tickets per game. Obviously this number is way off. In order to get down to the 16384 seats that Rexall can have, the average ticket price must be 63% higher.

At an average ticket price of $87.30, $5.71 is the surcharge fee (87.30/1.07). At $5.71/ticket * 16384 /game * 44 games = $4.1M

If Edmonton can sustain those numbers it would surprise me if Winnipeg couldn't average within 25% of that ($65.45 avg/ticket).

I should note at $65.45 per ticket the revenue generated would be ~$43.6M.

 

[RAgIn]

Campbell: Coyotes closing in on move to Winnipeg

Amid reports the deal to sell the Phoenix Coyotes to Chicago businessman Matthew Hulsizer is on life support, a source with knowledge of the situation told THN.com a deal is basically done to move the Coyotes to Winnipeg and will be announced sometime between the end of the Stanley Cup final and the June 24 draft.

The ball is clearly rolling downhill. Great news for Jets fans. Winnipeg.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/39788-Campbell-Coyotes-closing-in-on-move-to-Winnipeg.html

 

[Potrzebie]

What'll be interesting is how the Moose will react to all the rumor mongoring. Out in the first round with no push?

If they play the way they did in last Saturday's season ender, they'll be out in the first round alright.

 

[EpochLink]

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=362283

Here it comes, I've been waiting for this since 1996..

 

[Ser Grogu]

Git r done!

 

[RAgIn]

According to the source, the deal calls for the Coyotes to be sold to True North Sports and Entertainment for $140 million. It’s believed the deal will be announced at something north of $200 million, but that includes more than $60 million in renovations to add 2,500 seats to the MTS Centre in Winnipeg.

The source said the deal has not been signed, but there is a memorandum of agreement in place and that the deal will be signed when the NHL’s deal with Hulsizer officially dies

If so, wow. On both fronts. More seats? MOA?