Part 4: True North Sports & Entertainment's efforts to acquire an NHL team (Winnipeg)

[htpwn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ns14hRqwY8

I wonder how he is going to like Winnipegs weather.

That interview was great.

Finally, some comments from Biznasty made today:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coy...coyotes-worth-getting-know.html#ixzz1FyxIMsuB

Turris obviously hasn't been to Winnipeg. One thing the city is not lacking for is gorgeous women that love hockey and the men that play it.

I rest my case.

GHOST

Who needs Bryzgalov's support when you have Optimus Reim's?

“I was probably one of the kids who cried when they left in ‘96,” the Maple Leafs’ goaltender said Monday. “My favourite players were Nikolai Khabibulin, and Teemu Selanne was a big hit. It was a fun team when you were a kid, because everyone was young and playing hockey (pretending to be Jets).

“As a province, you’re proud of what you can accomplish and I think Winnipeg could hold a franchise again if the NHL saw fit. It would be good for the NHL and for the city.”

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/hockey/2011/03/07/17526211.html

 

[roccerfeller]

Hell, as I've said before, if the Yotes move there we might be neighbors!

RR, always welcome in Canada's skinny but welcoming arms. Winnipeg is actually an extremely friendly city. Winters might be a culture shock for ya. But does free healthcare entice ya?

What's up downtown?

CentreVenture unveils plan for sports and entertainment district

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/whats-up-downtown-117569803.html

This is big. CentreVenture would ONLY be allowed to disclose TNSE's plans if FOR CERTAIN an NHL team was coming to Winnipeg. This is what I have been told, and this is what several reputable people in the architecture world have said (of which I am not personally a part of). Nice find Gump

edit: I should perhaps clarify ... although it states in the article these plans have been known of, TNSE was NOT going to develop or allow development unless they knew for certain they were getting an NHL franchise. These are all additional revenue streams. And this is also just the "phase 1" of the entire plan

 

[Hamilton Tigers]

I have been going nuts today (OK, maybe not just today) thinking I read elsewhere this afternoon (around 5 pm EST Monday) that the projection for WPG revs was ~$70M. Either I imagined it or, perhaps, it did not include other hockey-related revenues the team would get from the league (i.e. rev sharing).

I swear I read that. That WPG revs would be the lowest among the teams in Canada, but because of ownership owning the Arena and non-hockey events being delivered to the bottom line, it made sense for TNSE to make this investment now, rather than waiting for an expansion team because that would certainly carry with it a hefty relo fee.

The $70m figure was an unsourced report of an NHL analysis that was referenced earlier on here. It went on to say that even at $70m, it would still be twice the Coyotes' revenue, and $20m more than the Thrashers' revenue.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/elli...ncially-strapped-clubs-only-clear-option.html

 

[LadyStanley]

Mod note: This is not the trade forum. This is not the place to speculate on the specific machinations of a future roster. (Or if a player/rights can be traded if they don't want to relocate and who might be interested. FTR - the Sharks aren't looking for a goalie .)

If a player has made a statement (in the press) about the possible relocation, then fine (include the link). But no speculating.

 

[roccerfeller]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...y/winnipeg-by-the-the-numbers/article1933707/

Winnipeg by the numbers

Population:

1994: 676,000

2010: 750,000

Average house value:

1994: $84,000 (Canadian average $158,000)

2009: $227,000 (Canadian average $340,000)

Total value of building permits issued:

1994: $300-million

2009: $1.1-billion

Housing starts:

1994: 972

2010: 3,200

Average household income:

1994: $43,000 (Canadian average $49,000)

2010: $72,000 (Canadian average $70,500)

Unemployment rate

1994: 10.4% (Canadian average 9.5%)

2010: 4.9% (Canadian average 8.1%) (best in Canada)

Total employment

1994: 318,000

2010: 425,000

Retail sales:

1994: $4.3-billion

2010: $9.8-billion

GDP per capita

1994: $21,100 (Canada $26,700)

2009: $37,500 (Canada $39,000)

Personal disposable income per capita:

1994: $17,700

2010: $29,900

Difference: +170% increase

NHL average ticket Prices:

1994: $34

2010: $49

Difference: +140% increase

Corporate head offices, companies of all sizes:

Edmonton: 157

Winnipeg: 129

Ottawa: 101

Corporate head offices, total employment:

Winnipeg: 6,890

Ottawa: 4,667

Edmonton: 3,428

Canada's 800 largest corporations:

Winnipeg: 32 plus three 3 subsidiaries = 35

Edmonton: 25 plus one subsidiary = 26

Quebec City: 16 plus two subsidiaries = 18

Ottawa: 15 plus one subsidiary = 16

Brent Bellamy is part of that corporate base. He argues Winnipeg may not be a Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver but it “is a far wealthier place than it was in the mid-1990s.” To bolster his argument, Mr. Bellamy sends along an interesting set of numbers:

 

[bicycles]

awesome, that should help dispell all of these Winnipeg myths.

 

[Grumpz]

awesome, that should help dispell all of these Winnipeg myths.

Agree, but too many people are still living in the 80's.

 

[roccerfeller]

awesome, that should help dispell all of these Winnipeg myths.

considering Winnipeg has ~70% of the populations of Edmonton & Ottawa, it makes the corporate numbers that much more impressive.

This is of course primarily due to Winnipeg's history as the gateway to western Canada, and its current geographic location. There's a reason it won out being Canada's inland port and no other city vying for the position received federal funding (to my knowledge)

 

[roccerfeller]

Agree, but too many people are still living in the 80's.

depends where you live and who you ask, imo.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Hope the Pegs get their team back!

 

[Retail1LO*]

Those are some a impressive numbers a few posts above. A lot can change over 15 years.

I'm still of the opinion hockey is Canada's game...and more hockey in Canada is good for everyone. I know a lot of the Canadian teams account for the largest revenue draws in the game. The fact that Butthead would rather watch Phoenix make 35M than Winnipeg make 70M is rather irritating (forgive me if I'm off a bit on the numbers).

I hope Winnipeg gets a team back, wherever it comes from.

 

[CorbeauNoir]

considering Winnipeg has ~70% of the populations of Edmonton & Ottawa, it makes the corporate numbers that much more impressive.

I have no idea if it's true or not but from what I've heard there's about 1mil people within an hour's drive of MTS and thus Winnipeg's metro population is a bit misleadingly small.

 

[cbcwpg]

I have no idea if it's true or not but from what I've heard there's about 1mil people within an hour's drive of MTS and thus Winnipeg's metro population is a bit misleadingly small.

I'm trying to find the link, but I remember TNSE putting out a circle around Winnipeg for up to a 4.5 hour drive, and the population was approx. 2.2 million. This included Fargo, Grand Forks, Brandon, etc. A lot of people around here don't live in Winnipeg. This is an agriculture area remember.

 

[CorbeauNoir]

I'm trying to find the link, but I remember TNSE putting out a circle around Winnipeg for up to a 4.5 hour drive, and the population was approx. 2.2 million. This included Fargo, Grand Forks, Brandon, etc. A lot of people around here don't live in Winnipeg. This is an agriculture area remember.

4.5 hours seems excessively large. 9 hours is a hell of a round trip for a football game, let alone hockey.

 

[Ludwig Fell Down]

Agree, but too many people are still living in the 80's.

I'd love to respond, but I have tickets to the Loverboy concert tonight and need to take off.

 

[cbcwpg]

4.5 hours seems excessively large. That's a hell of a round trip for a football game, let alone hockey.

I guess they put it out that far (4.5 hours) for those games on weekends. For the weekday games I see drives up to 2 hours being acceptable. When the Jets were here I remember talking to people at games that came in from Thompson, MB. ( 10 hour drive ) for weekend double headers. Like all markets the more weekend games you can get the better.

 

[LT_Canadian]

Hope the Pegs get their team back!

Much appreciated!!! Hope so too.

 

[Pegger5]

I have no idea if it's true or not but from what I've heard there's about 1mil people within an hour's drive of MTS and thus Winnipeg's metro population is a bit misleadingly small.

This is true about being over 1 million people within an hours drive. and most of those numbers above were from the annual "top 800" Canadian companies in the Financial Post magazine.

 

[vivianmb]

every team has ups & downs in attendance, but the Pens issue was a new building, not fans in the seats. Phoenix has never made money in its entire existance in the desert.

Also, unlike Phoenix, Pittsburgh began its sellout streak (over 200 games & counting) during the darkest hour. The market has always been here, it just required a new building....to compare Phoenix as a market to Pittsburgh is laughable...

look up pittsburg's attendence in the early 80's(before Lemieux)and that's in a 20-25 yr old building.

 

[roccerfeller]

I have no idea if it's true or not but from what I've heard there's about 1mil people within an hour's drive of MTS and thus Winnipeg's metro population is a bit misleadingly small.

I'm trying to find the link, but I remember TNSE putting out a circle around Winnipeg for up to a 4.5 hour drive, and the population was approx. 2.2 million. This included Fargo, Grand Forks, Brandon, etc. A lot of people around here don't live in Winnipeg. This is an agriculture area remember.

cbcwpg, you might be thinking of the circle drawn up by Asper & Creswin, when they were proposing the "Elms" project at the (eventually soon to be) demolished CanadInns site.

It was to show the potential of a shopping district, which yes, was ~2.2 mil and stretched down to ND and east to Western Ontario and west to portions of Saskatchewan as well.

@CorbeauNoir & cbcwpg, the only thing regarding Winnipeg's metro is really only the people living in the CMA contribute to Winnipeg's economy. It doesn't matter if there are 1 million people in Saskatchewan, only the people in Regina's CMA are really contributing to the growth of that city.

So relatively speaking, in addition to the fact a lot of these people do not make regular trips to Winnipeg (CMA) area, Winnipeg's metro population is not entirely misleadingly small.

For arguments sake, the reason Hamilton - although its a slightly smaller city than Winnipeg - has the CMA argument working for it is because of the proximity of Southern Ontario. It is akin to many greater metro areas in the USA, which the cities themselves are small but metro areas are huge. Canadian cities do not really share this similarity, other than Southern Ontario, and perhaps Greater Vancouver area.

Some cities like Montreal, Quebec City, Ottawa & Maritimes cities, have "hints" of these but generally the situations regarding Winnipeg's CMA being somewhat misleading, is itself misleading

Not that it matters. Look at those numbers

 

[CorbeauNoir]

@CorbeauNoir & cbcwpg, the only thing regarding Winnipeg's metro is really only the people living in the CMA contribute to Winnipeg's economy. It doesn't matter if there are 1 million people in Saskatchewan, only the people in Regina's CMA are contributing to the growth of that city.

So relatively speaking, in addition to the fact a lot of these people do not make regular trips to Winnipeg (CMA) area, Winnipeg's metro population is not entirely misleadingly small.

For arguments sake, the reason Hamilton - although its a slightly smaller city than Winnipeg - has the CMA argument working for it is because of the proximity of Southern Ontario. It is akin to many greater metro areas in the USA, which the cities themselves are small but metro areas are huge. Canadian cities do not really share this similarity, other than Southern Ontario, and perhaps Greater Vancouver area.

Some cities like Montreal, Quebec City, Ottawa & Maritimes cities, have "hints" of these but generally the situations regarding Winnipeg's CMA being somewhat misleading, is itself misleading

Not that it matters. Look at those numbers

Sort of; Nova Scotia is a bit unusual in that they have 'regional municipalities' instead of proper cities.

Surely an hour radius is a contributing area for downtown Winnipeg, though. Especially if events like hockey games are a reason to reel people into the city. There are suburbs in Calgary that are almost that far seperated from downtown.

 

[roccerfeller]

Sort of; Nova Scotia is a bit unusual in that they have 'regional municipalities' instead of proper cities.

Surely an hour radius is a contributing area for downtown Winnipeg, though. Especially if events like hockey games are a reason to reel people into the city. There are suburbs in Calgary that are almost that far seperated from downtown.

As a contributing factor, specifically for a few NHL games, yes.

First Bomber game I ever attended live, there were STHs near who lived in Brandon (~ 2 hr drive), so not saying its not impossible. Mind you, NHL would have more than 8 home games.

Agree with you on all the other points too.

My personal belief is, however, even if there was no one near Winnipeg for an 8 hour radius, there are still enough willing people to pack a 15k seat building.

I'd say easily & probably conservatively, out of those employed (425k) at least one fifth would be interested in watching NHL hockey live.

= 85k.

That's a lot of potential ticket purchasers. Realistically, its probably 2-3 times that number.

 

[CorbeauNoir]

As a contributing factor, specifically for a few NHL games, yes.

First Bomber game I ever attended live, there were STHs near who lived in Brandon (~ 2 hr drive), so not saying its not impossible. Mind you, NHL would have more than 8 home games.

Agree with you on all the other points too.

My personal belief is, however, even if there was no one near Winnipeg for an 8 hour radius, there are still enough willing people to pack a 15k seat building.

I'd say easily & probably conservatively, out of those employed (425k) at least one fifth would be interested in watching NHL hockey live.

= 85k.

That's a lot of potential ticket purchasers. Realistically, its probably 2-3 times that number.

I (cautiously) agree. But my point was that the stats on Winnipeg's population don't accurately account for the population that a team there would realistically be serving and hence diminishes the argument that Winnipeg is too small. I believe it's a similar story for Quebec City too.

 

[pucka lucka]

Where do Regina & Saskatoon's loyalties historically lie in regards to NHL teams? With Alberta or Manitoba?

 

[htpwn]

For arguments sake, the reason Hamilton - although its a slightly smaller city than Winnipeg - has the CMA argument working for it is because of the proximity of Southern Ontario. It is akin to many greater metro areas in the USA, which the cities themselves are small but metro areas are huge. Canadian cities do not really share this similarity, other than Southern Ontario, and perhaps Greater Vancouver area.

Some cities like Montreal, Quebec City, Ottawa & Maritimes cities, have "hints" of these but generally the situations regarding Winnipeg's CMA being somewhat misleading, is itself misleading

Not that it matters. Look at those numbers

Off-topic but a small correction...

Toronto has 2.7 million people, making it the biggest city on the Great Lakes and the 4th largest in North America (1. Mexico City 2. NYC 3. LA).

Even Toronto's western suburb, Mississauga, has a population of 700,000 making it one of the biggest suburbs in North America and the 4th largest city on the Great Lakes (1. Toronto 2. Chicago 3. Detroit).

So I would argue that Southern Ontario meets that definition fine. If you look at a city like Dallas, which has a similar metropolitan population to Toronto, the city itself only has 1.1 million people. I think the reason you see more sprawl in Southern Ontario then in other Canadian cities is just the fact that Toronto is much bigger then most cities in Canada.