Rumor: Pacioretty Potential Trade Thread II (Mod warning post #139)

[Habs Halifax]

Defense is still putrid. Still lacking a number two center.

I think there are issues but I choose to entertain and work around these issues with Tavares vs without Tavares. Poehling is in line to be a middle 2 center in a few years. Drouin showed you a glimpse of hope in last night's game... one of his best as a Habs IMO. Not expecting Drouin and Galchenyuk to improve and mature is overly negative IMO.

I bet you can sign Markov to a one year contract as well.

I'm not closing the Tavares door until he closes it. Once he closes it, I move on to other plans.

 

[Omar]

Yes

Why are we talking about Tavares, Backlund and Stastny? That ship has sailed because the only thing they’ll do is help us suck less. There are so many glaring holes on this team that we have no way of filling. We need to retool, get younger and fix our team through prospects. You only add one of those big fish when they’re the final piece of the puzzle. Otherwise we’ll be meddling in the mid pack like the Leafs did for years and never getting better through the draft.

Wow, we disagree.

Patch / Tavares / Gallagher
Galchenyuk / Drouin / Scherbak
Lehkonen / Danault / Shaw
Deslauriers / DLR / Byron
Carr, McCarron

Mete / Weber
Jerabek / Petry
Alzner / Juulsen
Benn, Schlemko

Price
Lindgren

This does not even factor in who we draft in the next draft. I think we could shuffle things around on our D or even sign Markov to one year but Adding Tavares changes our team.

No offense but that defense is crap and it’s why we’re getting ruined this year. Mete should not be your top pair and Jerabek is a 5.

Drouin is not a center. Scherbak shouldn’t be in your top six as a rookie. Even Matthews started on the third line.

Dream all you want about JT but waiting for a chance at Tavares and risking everything on it is not a solution, it’s a hope. What would you say are the chances of signing him? You’d be risking a full year of the retool and the draft this Spring with all the picks and prospects we could attain because of it. Even with that lineup, we wouldn’t be a Cup contender.

But I can’t blame you. Our management has the same mindset and they’ve overvalued this team for six years. And it’s destroyed us.

Just hope you realize that after putting Scherbak and Juulsen in your lineup, there are no more prospects coming. That would be it.

The organization is so bare on prospects that personally I don’t think you can risk putting all your eggs in the Tavares basket. That’s my personal opinion.

You have to solve the problem now.

 

[G0bias]

I think there are issues but I choose to entertain and work around these issues with Tavares vs without Tavares. Poehling is in line to be a middle 2 center in a few years. Drouin showed you a glimpse of hope in last night's game... one of his best as a Habs IMO. Not expecting Drouin and Galchenyuk to improve and mature is overly negative IMO.

I don't expect Drouin as a center, no. Your lineup didn't have Galchenyuk at center, so I don't know how I even implied him not improving. But considering this management's unwillingness to have Galchenyuk at center, that ain't happening either.

Poehling as a 2C is best-case scenario if everything goes smoothly and even surpasses expectations. Which is a stretch considering this team's ineptitude at developing centers, let alone playing them in their positions. That could be in a few years like you said. In a few years Weber will be turning 35, Price 33. Pacioretty, Tavares, Petry, Byron will be over 30.

 

[mariolemieux66]

No offense but that defense is crap and it’s why we’re getting ruined this year. Mete should not be your top pair and Jerabek is a 5.

Drouin is not a center. Scherbak shouldn’t be in your top six as a rookie. Even Matthews started on the third line.

Dream all you want about JT but waiting for a chance at Tavares and risking everything on it is not a solution, it’s a hope. What would you say are the chances of signing him? You’d be risking a full year of the retool and the draft this Spring with all the picks and prospects we could attain because of it. Even with that lineup, we wouldn’t be a Cup contender.

But I can’t blame you. Our management has the same mindset and they’ve overvalued this team for six years. And it’s destroyed us.

Just hope you realize that after putting Scherbak and Juulsen in your lineup, there are no more prospects coming. That would be it.

The organization is so bare on prospects that personally I don’t think you can risk putting all your eggs in the Tavares basket. That’s my personal opinion.

You have to solve the problem now.

Well said.
Signing Tavares will prolonge the mediocrity since we dont have the talent/depth and prospects to surround him with.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Offence they have, they are missing the top D piece and Weber would do it. He isn't a PMD and if that's what they are looking for he isn't it, but they don't get a No.1 PMD for Nylander. They would have to get a guy with that potential.

They don't really need a puck mover though. Reilly & Gardiner are fine puck movers, even Zaitsev & Carrick are puck movers. They also have Dermott & Liljegren both puck movers.

They really need a shut down guy & a big shot on the blueline. Not sure I want to give them what they need.

 

[CauZuki]

As Omar just wrote, you still have glaring holes to fill. Acquiring a first pairing PMD for instance, is going to come with an expensive contract in all likelihood.

I would agree with him that it's best to do it through other means rather than paying something in the neighborhood of $15M per year to a Tavares. Of course Tavares is highly desirable and would fill a longstanding need, but we need to look at the big picture. You can send the right message to Weber and Price by filling glaring needs across the spectrum as opposed to just overpaying for the one guy.

I don't think it's as bad as we perceive , the current D-corpse is performing decently without Weber.
Our lineup could be very interesting in 2018-2019 , I am definately counting on our young players to keep developping but obviously adding another top 4D can't hurt but I think adding an elite C could make a huge difference. I am by no means advocating that we count on Tavares even becoming UFA (and then signing here) but looking at this objectively , this would be our lineup:

Pacioretty - Tavares - Gallagher
Drouin - Galchenyuk - Lekhonen
Byron/Hudon - Danault - Scherbak
Carr/D-Lo - Shaw - Byron/Hudon

Mete - Weber
Jerabek - Petry
Alzner - Juulsen

Price
Lindgren

 

[Omar]

I think there are issues but I choose to entertain and work around these issues with Tavares vs without Tavares. Poehling is in line to be a middle 2 center in a few years. Drouin showed you a glimpse of hope in last night's game... one of his best as a Habs IMO. Not expecting Drouin and Galchenyuk to improve and mature is overly negative IMO.

I bet you can sign Markov to a one year contract as well.

I'm not closing the Tavares door until he closes it. Once he closes it, I move on to other plans.

That’s okay to say as a fan. If the GM said this and I was his boss, I’d fire him for lack of preparation.

Your plan can’t be “I’m waiting for Tavares. I don’t have another plan right now if he doesn’t sign here, but we’ll wait and formulate one if it doesn’t happen.”

 

[Roke]

They don't really need a puck mover though. Reilly & Gardiner are fine puck movers, even Zaitsev & Carrick are puck movers. They also have Dermott & Liljegren both puck movers.

They really need a shut down guy & a big shot on the blueline. Not sure I want to give them what they need.

I don't think they need a big shot. Their powerplay is top-10 in percentage and scoring rate and was tremendous last year with basically the same personnel Plus adding Weber to a powerplay really limits things - he can't create for others so he's no suited for a 4F1D unit and while his shot is up their with Ovechkin he doesn't move around enough to make a 3F2D operate like the more efficient 4F1D powerplays do.

I think Petry's a better fit for Toronto - he costs less in salary, he should cost less via trade, he's not signed for forever, he doesn't make your team inert 5on5, and a D entirely of puck-movers has been my ideal view of what a defence corps should be for years.

 

[yianik]

They don't really need a puck mover though. Reilly & Gardiner are fine puck movers, even Zaitsev & Carrick are puck movers. They also have Dermott & Liljegren both puck movers.

They really need a shut down guy & a big shot on the blueline. Not sure I want to give them what they need.

Chuckle. I know.

Leafs win Cup after Weber trade. Arggh

But we have to worry about our team. IF Nylander is a no.1C then that fills that huge need. A young 1C.

We then go after D's with top pair potential, like a Hanifin.

Our top guys are too old. We need to reset the clock and try again with the right pieces.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No offense but that defense is crap and it’s why we’re getting ruined this year. Mete should not be your top pair and Jerabek is a 5.

Drouin is not a center. Scherbak shouldn’t be in your top six as a rookie. Even Matthews started on the third line.

Dream all you want about JT but waiting for a chance at Tavares and risking everything on it is not a solution, it’s a hope. What would you say are the chances of signing him? You’d be risking a full year of the retool and the draft this Spring with all the picks and prospects we could attain because of it. Even with that lineup, we wouldn’t be a Cup contender.

But I can’t blame you. Our management has the same mindset and they’ve overvalued this team for six years. And it’s destroyed us.

Just hope you realize that after putting Scherbak and Juulsen in your lineup, there are no more prospects coming. That would be it.

The organization is so bare on prospects that personally I don’t think you can risk putting all your eggs in the Tavares basket. That’s my personal opinion.

You have to solve the problem now.

1. There are no rules towards prospects who are NHL ready. They get inserted based on line chemistry and you can move them around based on performance from game to game. You probably didn't notice that Hudon was a spare as well.

2. Drouin as your #2C or even #3C behind Tavares and Danault is not a terrible thing. Drouin has a little less than half a season to mature into that role. You could be right or you could be wrong but Drouin is better as a center vs Pleky is today IMO. Therefore, our team improves due to swapping Pleky for Tavares.

3. Come on man. We have more than just Scherbak and Juulsen to insert into our line-up in future years. Poehling and Brook are having very good years as 18 year olds. Who knows what we get from Evans and others. This does not even consider the picks we get in the next draft and we have many top 100 picks! To put things in perspective for you, we have a potential of 7 top 100 picks in the next draft and we only had 8 top 100 picks in 4 drafts from 2008-2011. Our next draft will likely provide at least 2 or 3 future NHL'ers or possibly more.

A total rebuild is just as risky as a rebuild on the fly or a reset. All plans have risks. When you get a chance to add Tavares from age 28-34, you don't shut the door... even if you have to pay him as the highest player in the NHL. He is a top center in this league.

Expecting to draft and become the next Leafs or Oilers and get lucky pick after pick is a foolish game. You need to look at the teams who have been rebuilding for a very long time now.

 

[sandviper]

They don't really need a puck mover though. Reilly & Gardiner are fine puck movers, even Zaitsev & Carrick are puck movers. They also have Dermott & Liljegren both puck movers.

They really need a shut down guy & a big shot on the blueline. Not sure I want to give them what they need.

If we do, we better get the king's ransom from them. Weber is exactly the type-of defenceman they need. Not saying HE himself is the one, but a solid shut down guy would do a lot for them. If Weber is the target, and I'm sure Babs will do cartwheels for it, we'd better get a lot more than Nylander.

I would feel confident in saying this will never happen though. Not because of Weber going to Toronto but more because guys like Nylander I don't see MB valuing.

 

[mariolemieux66]

They don't really need a puck mover though. Reilly & Gardiner are fine puck movers, even Zaitsev & Carrick are puck movers. They also have Dermott & Liljegren both puck movers.

They really need a shut down guy & a big shot on the blueline. Not sure I want to give them what they need.

Why not?
It shouldn't matter to this team if Toronto wins 3 Stanley Cup in a row because we traded them Weber for instance. As long as we do what is best for this team's future and improve our chances to be a contender eventually.
And i personally couldnt care less to trade Weber or anybody else on this team for that matter. I am not attached to any of them anymore. Bring me players with skill, determination,talent and a winning mentality.

 

[G0bias]

They don't really need a puck mover though. Reilly & Gardiner are fine puck movers, even Zaitsev & Carrick are puck movers. They also have Dermott & Liljegren both puck movers.

They really need a shut down guy & a big shot on the blueline. Not sure I want to give them what they need.

If they're offering you the best deal, you do it.

 

[sandviper]

Why not?
It shouldn't matter to this team if Toronto wins 3 Stanley Cup in a row because we traded them Weber for instance. As long as we do what is best for this team's future and improve our chances to be a contender eventually.
And i personally couldnt care less to trade Weber or anybody else on this team for that matter. I am not attached to any of them anymore. Bring me players with skill, determination,talent and a winning mentality.

Yup! We've never had one of those.

 

[yianik]

I don't expect Drouin as a center, no. Your lineup didn't have Galchenyuk at center, so I don't know how I even implied him not improving. But considering this management's unwillingness to have Galchenyuk at center, that ain't happening either.

Poehling as a 2C is best-case scenario if everything goes smoothly and even surpasses expectations. Which is a stretch considering this team's ineptitude at developing centers, let alone playing them in their positions. That could be in a few years like you said. In a few years Weber will be turning 35, Price 33. Pacioretty, Tavares, Petry, Byron will be over 30.

Lol.

Poehling 2 months into his AHL season with Sly gets told he is a 3C, as he doesn't have enough of an offensive game. Sly says. I have seen enough, I do not need to see anymore, Poehling is not a top 6C. He must just accept it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't expect Drouin as a center, no. Your lineup didn't have Galchenyuk at center, so I don't know how I even implied him not improving. But considering this management's unwillingness to have Galchenyuk at center, that ain't happening either.

Poehling as a 2C is best-case scenario if everything goes smoothly and even surpasses expectations. Which is a stretch considering this team's ineptitude at developing centers, let alone playing them in their positions. That could be in a few years like you said. In a few years Weber will be turning 35, Price 33. Pacioretty, Tavares, Petry, Byron will be over 30.

1. I didn't say Galchenyuk would be inserted at center. I said it's overly negative to assume Drouin and Galchenyuk will not mature and improve.

2. Who is the better center today? Pleky or Drouin?

3. Poehling is a projected middle 2 center. He is already showing his potential by excelling in a league where players are older than him. Pretty sure he is a solid asset for us moving forward.

4. Just because parts of your core is near age 30 or some slightly over it, it don't mean they are age 35 and done next season. You think the Pens are giving up because Malkin is age 31, Crosby is age 30, and Kessel is age 30, and Kessel is age 30? Come on man

 

[mariolemieux66]

Yup! We've never had one of those.

Ahahah!
Bergevin doesn't like them though, not enough intangibles.

 

[sampollock]

maxy to the peg for connor + plus......

 

[sandviper]

I think there are issues but I choose to entertain and work around these issues with Tavares vs without Tavares. Poehling is in line to be a middle 2 center in a few years. Drouin showed you a glimpse of hope in last night's game... one of his best as a Habs IMO. Not expecting Drouin and Galchenyuk to improve and mature is overly negative IMO.

I bet you can sign Markov to a one year contract as well.

I'm not closing the Tavares door until he closes it. Once he closes it, I move on to other plans.

Honestly, we should know pretty soon (TDL) if JT is going to hit the market. I think if he stays past the TDL, I'd bet money he is staying in NY/Brooklyn.

 

[BLONG7]

Honestly, we should know pretty soon (TDL) if JT is going to hit the market. I think if he stays past the TDL, I'd bet money he is staying in NY/Brooklyn.

I think he goes ufa....................if he was staying he would have already taken his offer...just my 2 cents

 

[Omar]

1. There are no rules towards prospects who are NHL ready. They get inserted based on line chemistry and you can move them around based on performance from game to game. You probably didn't notice that Hudon was a spare as well.

2. Drouin as your #2C or even #3C behind Tavares and Danault is not a terrible thing. Drouin has a little less than half a season to mature into that role. You could be right or you could be wrong but Drouin is better as a center vs Pleky is today IMO. Therefore, our team improves due to swapping Pleky for Tavares.

3. Come on man. We have more than just Scherbak and Juulsen to insert into our line-up in future years. Poehling and Brook are having very good years as 18 year olds. Who knows what we get from Evans and others. This does not even consider the picks we get in the next draft and we have many top 100 picks! To put things in perspective for you, we have a potential of 7 top 100 picks in the next draft and we only had 8 top 100 picks in 4 drafts from 2008-2011. Our next draft will likely provide at least 2 or 3 future NHL'ers or possibly more.

A total rebuild is just as risky as a rebuild on the fly or a reset. All plans have risks. When you get a chance to add Tavares from age 28-34, you don't shut the door... even if you have to pay him as the highest player in the NHL. He is a top center in this league.

Expecting to draft and become the next Leafs or Oilers and get lucky pick after pick is a foolish game. You need to look at the teams who have been rebuilding for a very long time now.

What do you mean there are no rules around prospects? You have to wait for them to develop. The fact that Mete is playing in the NHL should tell you that, not only does our lineup suck, but we have nobody else who’s developed who we can insert before him on the left side.

You can’t say now that Poehling and Brook will be great NHL players when they haven’t even turned pro.

Drouin will not be a regular center in the NHL. Even Bergevin said this. Danault is not a 2C. See what you’re doing is playing people out of position to justify how Tavares will help us. There are so many questions with your lineup and you’re assuming everyone performs optimally in your set up. That’s not the reality.

The thing you guys have to understand is a lot of people don’t want us to just be better and make the playoffs. We want to build for a Cup. Having a #1C, no 2C, no 2RW, no 1LD and other puck movers on the blueline will have us bounced in the second or third round every year.

The goal is the Cup so Tavares doesn’t solve that unless we have the pieces to surround him with. Which we WON’T GET anywhere except through the draft (we are already running out of trade pieces), which is highly low probability if we keep drafting high. You’re just prolonging the inevitable.

If we don’t get the pieces we need to surround Tavares with and Weber and Price keep getting older what’s the point? Pacioretty is 29 himself.

I’m not saying a full rebuild. I’m saying you keep Price, Drouin, Galchenyuk, Mete, Danault and Juulsen and you trade the rest:
-you get a few top C/D prospects for Pacioretty, Weber, Gallagher
-you get nice picks including 1sts for Shaw, Pacioretty, Weber, Byron
-you draft high to get game breakers at key positions

And you get young, faster and have more offense. That’s the new NHL.

 

[sandviper]

I think he goes ufa....................if he was staying he would have already taken his offer...just my 2 cents

Maybe. I don't follow the negotiations they may be doing there now, but the Isles are currently a lottery team by a couple points. I guess if they are making that run to get to the playoffs, I can see them holding on to JT and roll the dice in July. Say they are 10-12 back at TDL, I dunno, I think they would be better off moving him if their negotiations aren't going well.

 

[OldCraig71]

I think he goes ufa....................if he was staying he would have already taken his offer...just my 2 cents[/QUOTE

John Tavares is not coming here even if he does hit free agency.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Honestly, we should know pretty soon (TDL) if JT is going to hit the market. I think if he stays past the TDL, I'd bet money he is staying in NY/Brooklyn.

Interesting... you think it goes like Stamkos. I think Stamkos ended up re-signing because he wanted to stay but Yzerman gave used the Tax advantage perfectly. Stamkos could of got $10M+ from some team but when you factor in taxes, he likely makes the same clear take home pay if he stays in Florida at $8.5M. As far as Tavares, I personally think the Islanders need to offer him $12M or more for him to stay. If they want him to stay for $10M, he is gone

If anybody does not agree taxes are not in play, explain why Hedman signed a $7.875M contract from age 26-33 when he could of got more than Subban as a UFA.

 

[Habs Halifax]

And you get young, faster and have more offense. That’s the new NHL.

Coyotes have had this plan for how long now? Like I said, you have tunnel vision and are looking at the limited success stories and can't see how many teams are still struggling to rebuild after several years of solid draft picks.

Sorry, I think there are risks with any plan. I choose to rebuild on the fly and if Tavares wants to sign with the Habs, I certainly don't shut the door. I would have no problem with $12M but I would be a bit concerned with $15M. Regardless, I find a way to make it happen.