Rumor: Pacioretty Potential Trade Thread II (Mod warning post #139)

[TopTenPlayz]

Will try as a Philly fan to make a pitch for Pacioretty and Byron. I like the idea of playing Max on the 2nd line with Voracek and Patrick. 1st line set with Giroux, Couturier and Konecny. Byron would improve pk and secondary scoring.

So i would offer 6 pieces, some you might want to check before flaming as they are not all known names.

A first rounder, the worst of Phila and StL. Would be 25th today
A pmd in Philippe Myers 6.5 210 signed for 2 more yrs at 680K
A center in German Rubstov 19, 6´1, ppg in qhl
A rw in Maxim Sushko 18, ppg in ohl
A lw in Carsen Twarynski 20 6´2 30 goals in 43 games whl
Lw Raffl 2.3 mil 1 more year.

Philly still has many prospects at each position. Risk involved as both Mtl players have 1 year left.

Open to tweaks if need be.

How come almost no one bothered to reply to this grandiose offer of yours? And please do go write on the main board about how bad Habs fans are at making proposals and how much of a source of amusement they provide to you.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Seriously, say what?
The NHL Salary Cap came into affect in 2005.
The Kings went through a rebuild from 2005-8.
The Bruins also started their rebuild at the same time.
Again, how many teams won the cup without a rebuild in the cap era?

Kings draft picks from 2003-2010:
- Brown (13th in 2003)
- Kopitar (11th in 2005)
- Quick (72nd in 2005)
- Simmonds (61st in 2007)
- Martinez (95th 2007)
- Doughty (2nd 2008)
- Schenn (5th in 2009)

Does not appear to be a complete rebuild to me like the Pens and Blackhawks. They just drafted well and hit on several targets and also made a few good trades. Looks like a rebuild on the fly if you ask me.

Bruins Draft picks from 2003-2010:
- Bergeron (45th in 2003)
- Krejci (63rd in 2004)
- Sobotka (106 in 2005)
- Kessel (5th in 2006)
- Lucic (50th in 2006)
- Marchand (71st in 2006)
- Colborne (16th in 2008)
- Seguin (2nd in 2010)
- Spooner (45th in 2010)

Does not appear to be a complete rebuild to me like the Pens and Blackhawks. They just drafted well and hit on several targets and also made a few good trades (as well as signing Chara). Looks like a rebuild on the fly if you ask me. Just imagine if they decided not to sign Chara because they wanted to do a full rebuild instead?

The latest Bruins core is also a rebuild on the fly since their last cup

Complete rebuilds like the Pens and Blackhawks are false hope. They are very very rare cases.

 

[Andrei79]

Pacioretty to Edmonton for RNH and Edmontons first pick this year and it will be a top 5 pick, add to it if we have to. With this trade we potentially have 2 top 5 picks and the team is only set back for 1-2 seasons max(no pun).

Edmonton is a relatively good trading partner, but I some of the value here is off.

We'll be lucky to get RNH straight up for Pacioretty considering contracts, age and position.

The same can be said about Draisaitl and Weber.

We might get one or the other deal done one for one. But more realistically, we'll probably get packages of futures, much like the Duchene deal.

If Price gets mad and asks for a trade, all the better.

 

[Sterling Archer]

You fail to talk about the extra year in term which I clearly stated was the reason why I would give the edge to Hoffman. So your interpretation of what I was saying and you reply to it doesn't align

Clearly I don't put as much value in an extra year of contract as you do. Considering Patches clearly has the edge in nearly or every category, an additional year of Hoffman at $5M+ isn't tipping any scales as it may or may not be what the tram acquiring wants. What I do know a team wants it's a better player and Patches is no doubt a better player than Hoffman. Better equals more assets asked for in a trade. Period.

I think it's time for you to "quit" as your position isn't defensible even by the biggest Pacioretty haters.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Price signed almost the exact same contract Lundqvist did, in fact, it's likely to be a lower cap %. IMO, that is giving us a bit of a deal.

Lundqvist:
- 8 years at AAV of $8.5M
- Salary cap in 2014-2015 was $69M and grew an annual average of $2M since
- His % of the salary cap in his 1st year was 12.3%
- His % of the salary cap next year will be approx 10.8% (Using a Salary cap of $79M)

Price:
- 8 years at AAV of $10.5M
- Salary cap in 2018-2019 is rumored to grow by $3-$5M according to projected revenue. Lets say it's in the middle at $4M making it $79M next year
- His % of the salary cap in his 1st year is approx 13.3%

I think we gave Price a bit too much. I would of been happy with just under $10M but you are correct. The % of the salary cap is very close to what Lundqvist got in his 1st year and the cap has grown only $2M annually since (except for this next year).

What the Habs have going to our advantage is the extra revenue from Vegas and a potential of more from other expansion teams in the next few years. This will help. And any team with a top 10 goalie that they need to re-sign in the next few years will have to pay north of $7M or $8M ish. The days of a top NHL goalie making a typical $5-$7M range are over moving forward. Of course teams will get prospects inserted at a cheap rate for a few years but when the goalie proves themselves, they will be looking to cash in.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Clearly I don't put as much value in an extra year of contract as you do. Considering Patches clearly has the edge in nearly or every category, an additional year of Hoffman at $5M+ isn't tipping any scales as it may or may not be what the tram acquiring wants. What I do know a team wants it's a better player and Patches is no doubt a better player than Hoffman. Better equals more assets asked for in a trade. Period.

I think it's time for you to "quit" as your position isn't defensible even by the biggest Pacioretty haters.

Term affects value. I give the extra edge to Hoffman because of the extra year. Player for Player... edge goes to Patch. Both players are playing on disappointing teams this year and their stats are similar.

Sens would be asking for more with Hoffman and I don't blame them. 3 years vs 2 years is a difference maker for a team looking to go all in by trading futures and the extra year means a lot.

 

[MSSLYNX]

How come almost no one bothered to reply to this grandiose offer of yours? And please do go write on the main board about how bad Habs fans are at making proposals and how much of a source of amusement they provide to you.

Sorry you felt disrespected by the offer. Few replies were kind of mixed: minor tweaks were needed and from both sides

I do believe some offers are funny. Not sure this one was. No sure thing 1c was offered but 5 of 6 pieces (minus Raffl for cap) have potential and would at this time put the prospect pool back to middle of the road status.

Have another coffee and relax. Went from -10 to 25 degrees yesterday so maybe i had too much sun.

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

While a lot of pieces gives you a better chance that a couple pan out, it's likely they will just be top 9 or fringe top 6 and that is not what we need.

We have to go for fewer pieces but with a very high ceiling, as potential to be a 1C. If we whiff we are screwed but hedging bets guarantees mediocrity.

I doubt any of Patrick, Konecny or Sanheim would be involves in a Pacioretty deal. So that basically leaves Morgan Frost instead of Rubstov. I don't think it changes much.

 

[Omar]

1. We have not rebuild on the fly. We have won 3 division titles in 5 years and drafted in the 25+ position a lot. We also only have Gallagher to show for 4 years of drafting from 2008-2011 which is terrible drafting due to lack of top 100 picks in that span. We have also missed three 2nd round picks from the 2014-2016 draft years. This is not rebuilding on the fly.

2. At this point, we have several key pieces. Two players are in their early 30's and the rest of the core is age 25 or less. We had a good draft in 2017 and we have a potential of 7 or more top 100 picks in the next draft. This is rebuilding on the fly. If Pleky or Patch is traded, I would like to acquire more picks in the 2019 draft as well.

3. You mention NJ Devils. They won a draft lottery last year and got Hischier. Besides him, who have they drafted in the last 5 drafts that indicates to you that they rebuild on the fly while keeping Schneider? Do you honestly think they are the next Pens or Blackhawks?

4. You mention Tavares. My plan is to add Tavares and allow our age 25 and under core to grow. This includes players on our roster (Drouin, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Lehkonen, Danault, Mete, Hudon) and it includes players not on our current roster at the moment (Juulsen, Scherbak, Poehling, Brook, Bitten, Evans, Lindgren, Ikonen, Vejdemo). Adding a potential of 7 top 100 picks in the next draft is a big deal. You can throw our prospects under the bus we are turning the corner in this department. That is very clear to me and it's not about hope, it's about probability due to quantity of top 100 picks.

There are many ways we can go to be honest. What I have been saying is there is a risk/reward factor in each direction we take. My problem I have is I think people are a bit too disappointed with the playoff success of our team and exaggerating our team to be worse than it is because they want our GM fired. If we add Tavares, that is a game changer. It guarantees no cup but it address one of our biggest holes and he would be age 28-34 in the next 7 years. He fits with Price and Weber. Add another potential top 10 pick in the next draft and I think the age 25 and under core will be reinforced with more pieces and they will grow and fill holes on our roster.

What do you think the Leafs think if we get Tavares? I think they are a bit worried about it because they know how much better our team gets.

You still haven’t presented a plan. It really is pray for Tavares. How do you fill the holes in this roster if you don’t rebuild?

 

[Habs Halifax]

You still haven’t presented a plan. It really is pray for Tavares. How do you fill the holes in this roster if you don’t rebuild?

I did present a plan... Add Tavares and continue to focus on drafting well and inserting young player to fill voids. If made an attempt, you would understand. It's almost like how the Bruins added Chara as a UFA and they continued to add pieces through the draft and trades. Adding a piece like Tavares/Chara is a game changer for a team that is good but missing a huge piece.