Rumor: Pacioretty Potential Trade Thread II (Mod warning post #139)

[The Great Weal]

Does anyone know if Kunin is playing center?

 

[BLONG7]

Backlund, Stastny and Bozak. Habs should get one of them. I prefer Backlund in that bunch.

Pretty thin group of ufa centremen.............we have a ton of cap room for next season, and quite possibly no one to spend it on............again?

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

The point was not about having to give up an asset (we all know Tavares will likely be a UFA) but on account of having to carry three huge contracts eating into cap room.

I don't see the problem.
I think with just Plekanec out we will have enough capspace to sign Tavares to the huge contract he will demand.

We won't be able to re-sign Pacioretty, but it doesn't seem we were even planning to do that.

Theres also no one that will demand a huge increase in their next contract anytime soon. Galchenyuk is the closest, and his contract expires in 2 years.

Trading away Weber or Price wil give us 8+ million in capspace, but we dont need all that. If we needed a bit more capspace, we would trade guys like Shaw, Alzner, or Petry.

And it would make no sense to trade one of our top 2 players to just get some capspace after acquiring our top center. Its counter productive.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Does anyone know if Kunin is playing center?

wing

... the Wild want to develop him as a center, eventually.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The point was not about having to give up an asset (we all know Tavares will likely be a UFA) but on account of having to carry three huge contracts eating into cap room.

Personally, I think we need to rethink what a large AAV salary is as early as next year when the cap is rumored to go up $3-$5M range. Extra revenue from Vegas and more revenue from additional expansion teams in the next few years (as well as inflation) is changing the average $2M yearly increase we have been on in the past few years.

I see your concern about having an approximately $30M+ tied to 3 players but that leaves about $50M for the remaining 20 man roster (average $2.5M for each player). Lets say you have the bottom of the line-up (4th line, bottom paring on D, back-up goalie, as well as the 3 players that sit and watch games) making an average of $1M... That leaves $41M for the remaining 11 players (Average of $3.73M for each player). I don't think it's a huge problem. The only guy we have to re-sign that will require a substantial raise is Danault. Following year it's Patch and Byron. We would not have major problems fitting players into our cap and if we had problems, we dump Alzner for a bag of pucks.

The important thing is inserting team controlled assets like Juulsen, Scherbak, Poehling, Brook, Lindgren, DLR, McCarron, and our next round of draft picks into the line-up in the next 3+ years.

 

[le_sean]

Pretty thin group of ufa centremen.............we have a ton of cap room for next season, and quite possibly no one to spend it on............again?

We were never going to solve it with a free agent signing. Either trade or draft. Unfortunately there’s no good centres in this draft either.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Pretty thin group of ufa centremen.............we have a ton of cap room for next season, and quite possibly no one to spend it on............again?

If our cap space is not spent on Tavares, we don't have to waste our cap space just for the sake of being a near max cap team unless it makes sense for our team moving forward. I do not support a middle of the pack team.... worse spot to be in the NHL.

 

[SWRekker]

We were never going to solve it with a free agent signing. Either trade or draft. Unfortunately there’s no good centres in this draft either.

You might want to rethink or reword that statement. The fact that Dahlin is not a center does not mean that there are no good centres in this draft... Please !!

 

[Captain Mountain]

You might want to rethink or reword that statement. The fact that Dahlin is not a center does not mean that there are no good centres in this draft... Please !!

This draft is not considered a strong one for centers. Perhaps there is a diamond in the rough or guys have been undervalued, but none of the prospects are projected as a number one C.

 

[le_sean]

You might want to rethink or reword that statement. The fact that Dahlin is not a center does not mean that there are no good centres in this draft... Please !!

No top centres. No one that can help this team within 2 years.

 

[Runner77]

I don't see the problem.
I think with just Plekanec out we will have enough capspace to sign Tavares to the huge contract he will demand.

We won't be able to re-sign Pacioretty, but it doesn't seem we were even planning to do that.

Theres also no one that will demand a huge increase in their next contract anytime soon. Galchenyuk is the closest, and his contract expires in 2 years.

Trading away Weber or Price wil give us 8+ million in capspace, but we dont need all that. If we needed a bit more capspace, we would trade guys like Shaw, Alzner, or Petry.

And it would make no sense to trade one of our top 2 players to just get some capspace after acquiring our top center. Its counter productive.

If Tavares is signed to a $15M AAV, then it'll put pressure on the rest of the roster as it evolves. You won't be able to trade the likes of Alzner without retaining salary.

Obviously, adding a 4th long term high AAV contract in Pacioretty wouldn't even be an option.

I don't agree with your take, ultimately you can't have too much of your cap room chewed up by three players. However, that's not an issue I'd like Bergevin to contend with, hopefully it'll be for a successor with better roster management skills, should the situation even arise as it's highly speculative that Tavares will end up here to begin with.

 

[c3z4r]

Personally, I think we need to rethink what a large AAV salary is as early as next year when the cap is rumored to go up $3-$5M range. Extra revenue from Vegas and more revenue from additional expansion teams in the next few years (as well as inflation) is changing the average $2M yearly increase we have been on in the past few years.

I see your concern about having an approximately $30M+ tied to 3 players but that leaves about $50M for the remaining 20 man roster (average $2.5M for each player). Lets say you have the bottom of the line-up (4th line, bottom paring on D, back-up goalie, as well as the 3 players that sit and watch games) making an average of $1M... That leaves $41M for the remaining 11 players (Average of $3.73M for each player). I don't think it's a huge problem. The only guy we have to re-sign that will require a substantial raise is Danault. Following year it's Patch and Byron. We would not have major problems fitting players into our cap and if we had problems, we dump Alzner for a bag of pucks.

The important thing is inserting team controlled assets like Juulsen, Scherbak, Poehling, Brook, Lindgren, DLR, McCarron, and our next round of draft picks into the line-up in the next 3+ years.

The cap is expected to rise to somewhere from $78M to $82M from the current $75M cap. If Vegas keeps selling everything out and Seattle ramps up their decision to apply for an expansion spot, then it wouldn't surprise me to see the whole 7 million raise, and probably more to come in the year after too.

That would certainly relieve some of the pressure from the big contracts that were handed out and would also give a lot of leeway for the future if we decide to rebuild/retool and take on a couple bad contracts for a year or 2 for picks and young players/prospects.

 

[Runner77]

Personally, I think we need to rethink what a large AAV salary is as early as next year when the cap is rumored to go up $3-$5M range. Extra revenue from Vegas and more revenue from additional expansion teams in the next few years (as well as inflation) is changing the average $2M yearly increase we have been on in the past few years.

I see your concern about having an approximately $30M+ tied to 3 players but that leaves about $50M for the remaining 20 man roster (average $2.5M for each player). Lets say you have the bottom of the line-up (4th line, bottom paring on D, back-up goalie, as well as the 3 players that sit and watch games) making an average of $1M... That leaves $41M for the remaining 11 players (Average of $3.73M for each player). I don't think it's a huge problem. The only guy we have to re-sign that will require a substantial raise is Danault. Following year it's Patch and Byron. We would not have major problems fitting players into our cap and if we had problems, we dump Alzner for a bag of pucks.

The important thing is inserting team controlled assets like Juulsen, Scherbak, Poehling, Brook, Lindgren, DLR, McCarron, and our next round of draft picks into the line-up in the next 3+ years.

I'm all for maintaining a minimum of flexibility as one doesn't know the opportunities that may arise, for example an unexpected quality player that hits the market but who you can't afford because too much cap room has been dedicated elsewhere over too many years. Plus, Weber is 32 and Price will be 30 when his contract begins, it's quite the commitment already.

 

[The Great Weal]

No top centres. No one that can help this team within 2 years.

Pretty much have to hope for at least one of Hughes or Lafreniere.

 

[Omar]

Why are we talking about Tavares, Backlund and Stastny? That ship has sailed because the only thing they’ll do is help us suck less. There are so many glaring holes on this team that we have no way of filling. We need to retool, get younger and fix our team through prospects. You only add one of those big fish when they’re the final piece of the puzzle. Otherwise we’ll be meddling in the mid pack like the Leafs did for years and never getting better through the draft.

 

[Omar]

We can fit Tavares in no problem with a $12M AAV if the salary cap grows by $3-5M range. The only player we let go is Pleky and we are able to re-sign Danault to a solid contract as well ($4M +/-). We are even able to keep Patch. The issue would be our D and if we are able to get Dahlin or someone else in the draft that we can insert into our line-up quick. Dumping Alzner's salary helps... the guy is nowhere near good on the defensive end as I thought he would be.

That doesn’t help us

 

[Roke]

I just don't see how you can contend next season even if you sign Tavares, it looks like a pipe dream.

The 7 years/$15M it should take to lure him out of Brooklyn and away from teams in better positions than the Habs means you leave your LD unchanged from this season. And look at how little cap space you have left.

Or you trade Pacioretty for immediate help at LD making about $4.5M/year or less but:
1) Doing that now and not ending up signing Tavares would be a disaster
2) He should have less trade value in the summer after you hypothetically sign Tavares when a team only gets him for 1 season + 1 playoff run instead of 1 season + 2 playoff runs.

If you're trading Pacioretty it has to be for futures, and that means you should be shopping Weber, Price, Shaw, and probably Petry for futures as well.

 

[yianik]

I don't know why Toronto wouldn't be crying for Shea Weber. Weber would push them ahead big time in my opinion, and losing Nylander would be manageable for them.

Offence they have, they are missing the top D piece and Weber would do it. He isn't a PMD and if that's what they are looking for he isn't it, but they don't get a No.1 PMD for Nylander. They would have to get a guy with that potential.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm all for maintaining a minimum of flexibility as one doesn't know the opportunities that may arise, for example an unexpected quality player that hits the market but who you can't afford because too much cap room has been dedicated elsewhere over too many years. Plus, Weber is 32 and Price will be 30 when his contract begins, it's quite the commitment already.

I can't deny the cap concern as we would have the largest commitment towards 3 players I believe. But I think that would change pretty quick in a couple of years. We would just be the first team to reach $30M for 3 players. Oilers are going to be at $27M starting next year.

If it ends up a problem, I think a team looking to add cap space to meet the cap floor would take Alzner off our hands. Where there is a will, there is a way and if you sign Tavares, he is signing to join Price and Weber and not sure you are sending the right message to him if you trade one of them away after you acquire him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

That doesn’t help us

Be more specific. You saying Tavares does not help us?

 

[Omar]

Be more specific. You saying Tavares does not help us?

Yes

Why are we talking about Tavares, Backlund and Stastny? That ship has sailed because the only thing they’ll do is help us suck less. There are so many glaring holes on this team that we have no way of filling. We need to retool, get younger and fix our team through prospects. You only add one of those big fish when they’re the final piece of the puzzle. Otherwise we’ll be meddling in the mid pack like the Leafs did for years and never getting better through the draft.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yes

Wow, we disagree.

Patch / Tavares / Gallagher
Galchenyuk / Drouin / Scherbak
Lehkonen / Danault / Shaw
Deslauriers / DLR / Byron
Carr, McCarron, Hudon

Mete / Weber
Jerabek / Petry
Alzner / Juulsen
Benn, Schlemko

Price
Lindgren

This does not even factor in who we draft in the next draft. I think we could shuffle things around on our D or even sign Markov to one year but Adding Tavares changes our team.

 

[Runner77]

I can't deny the cap concern as we would have the largest commitment towards 3 players I believe. But I think that would change pretty quick in a couple of years. We would just be the first team to reach $30M for 3 players. Oilers are going to be at $27M starting next year.

If it ends up a problem, I think a team looking to add cap space to meet the cap floor would take Alzner off our hands. Where there is a will, there is a way and if you sign Tavares, he is signing to join Price and Weber and not sure you are sending the right message to him if you trade one of them away after you acquire him.

As Omar just wrote, you still have glaring holes to fill. Acquiring a first pairing PMD for instance, is going to come with an expensive contract in all likelihood.

I would agree with him that it's best to do it through other means rather than paying something in the neighborhood of $15M per year to a Tavares. Of course Tavares is highly desirable and would fill a longstanding need, but we need to look at the big picture. You can send the right message to Weber and Price by filling glaring needs across the spectrum as opposed to just overpaying for the one guy.

 

[Habs Halifax]

As Omar just wrote, you still have glaring holes to fill. Acquiring a first pairing PMD for instance, is going to come with an expensive contract in all likelihood.

I would agree with him that it's best to do it through other means rather than paying something in the neighborhood of $15M per year to a Tavares. Of course Tavares is highly desirable and would fill a longstanding need, but we need to look at the big picture. You can send the right message to Weber and Price by filling glaring needs across the spectrum as opposed to just overpaying for the one guy.

Realistically, we are going to have to draft that PMD to fill our hole IMO. I see your concerns but I choose to entertain problems with Tavares vs without Tavares. If Tavares wants to sign with the Habs for $12 - $15M range, I find a way to make it happen. It would be 7 years from age 28-34 range. He fits the Price and Weber core IMO.

I think a lot will change after the next draft. We will have a better understanding what our future holes are and this comes before July 1st free agency.

 

[G0bias]

Wow, we disagree.

Patch / Tavares / Gallagher
Galchenyuk / Drouin / Scherbak
Lehkonen / Danault / Shaw
Deslauriers / DLR / Byron
Carr, McCarron

Mete / Weber
Jerabek / Petry
Alzner / Juulsen
Benn, Schlemko

Price
Lindgren

This does not even factor in who we draft in the next draft. I think we could shuffle things around on our D or even sign Markov to one year but Adding Tavares changes our team.

Defense is still putrid. What happens when Weber gets injured again? And you are still lacking a number two center.