Orpik and Niskanen vs Two Potatos

[HunterSThompson]

Everyone signed right away because teams are able to talk to free agents before 7/1 now. That's no indication of anything.

And what else is he going to say? "I was bought out by the worst team of the modern era and teams are scared to offer me a real deal. I signed the only viable offer that I received.". Come on.

Maybe I don't understand what you are trying to argue here. Are you saying that 28 NHL scouting departments didn't want to sign Ehrhoff, and the Caps are worse off because they signed the sought after Niskanen instead?

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Maybe I don't understand what you are trying to argue here. Are you saying that 28 NHL scouting departments didn't want to sign Ehrhoff, and the Caps are worse off because they signed the sought after Niskanen instead?

Yes. I don't think it's that hard to see that Ehrhoff is the superior dman in every facet of the game. If executives were scared off of Ehrhoff because he got bought out due to recapture concerns then they are idiots.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Yes. I don't think it's that hard to see that Ehrhoff is the superior dman in every facet of the game. If executives were scared off of Ehrhoff because he got bought out due to recapture concerns then they are idiots.

As a devil's advocate - if recapture concerns were the only reason he was bought out, then why did he take a 1 year $4M contract? Why wouldn't he wait for a reasonable offer? Because if he's still as good as you say, then he should know he's worth significantly more, right?

 

[Devil Dancer]

Plus salary cap growth! The Rogers deal will be factored in next year....so yeah.

I just dont get how so many can be so upset with this. They finally did what we have wanted them to do...and its "Whhaaaaaaa....too much...salary cap.....wahhhhhhh!"

The defense....its done for 3 years. The top four are set....for 3 years. If one gets hurt...LTIR! and you get someone else. But otherwise....its set. I cant even explain how calming it feels to know the Capitals...the Washington Capitals...have a solid top 4 and realistically a solid top 6 this season. 1 to 6....every guy can play 20 minutes. Once night Carlson can be your go to for offense...the next Niskanen...the next Green....throw in Orlov too. Shut down D? Alzner and Orpik...Orpik and Alzner.

Yeah, they over paid. But its done. Defense is done.

That's assuming that Ted is committed to spending to and beyond the cap regardless of what the cap is. He committed to spending to the cap in the peak of the Ovechkin era when it was in the $60m range, and when the team looked ready to compete for a cup. Will he have that same commitment indefinitely when the cap gets to the $70m range, plus payments for LTIR contracts?

I'm not saying he won't, it's just something that worries me a little. Ted has come off as cheap a few times in the past.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

As a devil's advocate - if recapture concerns were the only reason he was bought out, then why did he take a 1 year $4M contract? Why wouldn't he wait for a reasonable offer? Because if he's still as good as you say, then he should know he's worth significantly more, right?

Maybe he wanted to settle his business and watch the Germans win the world cup in peace. Maybe there weren't any offers forthcoming and he didnt want to look desperate. Maybe he didnt see how the Hossa carousel ended. Maybe he's gambling on a strong injury free season in Pitt to get a bigger deal next year. The Sabres really did him no favors by buying him out late and unexpectedly.

Ehrhoff is a better player than Niskanen and will be for the next seven years.if he didnt get offers then we were fools to make the choice we did.

 

[ChibiPooky]

I'm pretty sure LTIR contracts are paid by insurance, not the team.

 

[Kegger]

you don't really believe that 1 year at $4m was the best offer Ehrhoff had, do you?

Of course it wasnt, which is why its obvious he had Pittsburgh selected no matter what.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Maybe he wanted to settle his business and watch the Germans win the world cup in peace. Maybe there weren't any offers forthcoming and he didnt want to look desperate. Maybe he didnt see how the Hossa carousel ended. Maybe he's gambling on a strong injury free season in Pitt to get a bigger deal next year. The Sabres really did him no favors by buying him out late and unexpectedly.

Ehrhoff is a better player than Niskanen and will be for the next seven years.if he didnt get offers then we were fools to make the choice we did.

Real question: Do you think he got effectively frozen out by missing the first part of the "contact" window? That by the time he hit the market, teams had already committed too heavily to other guys?

 

[Langway]

That's assuming that Ted is committed to spending to and beyond the cap regardless of what the cap is. He committed to spending to the cap in the peak of the Ovechkin era when it was in the $60m range, and when the team looked ready to compete for a cup. Will he have that same commitment indefinitely when the cap gets to the $70m range, plus payments for LTIR contracts?

I'm not saying he won't, it's just something that worries me a little. Ted has come off as cheap a few times in the past.

The escrow setup and the fixed linkage between revenue and the player's share should ease those concerns from a risk standpoint.

I don't think they spend what they did on Niskanen and Orpik if the plan was to become a budget team any time soon.

 

[KevinM]

Of course it wasnt, which is why its obvious he had Pittsburgh selected no matter what.

Pretty much, you'd have to be dense to believe that was the most lucrative offer he received.

 

[DCRedhawk21]

Of course it wasnt, which is why its obvious he had Pittsburgh selected no matter what.

This seems pretty obvious to me. If this was really a scenario where had nothing else on the table, you wouldn't see him signing within 5 minutes of free agency opening (before any other defensemen signed and team's would have been scrambling to get their next option). He's still getting money from the buyout and has the financial luxury of not worrying too much about this contract.

Would I have preferred him over Orpik and Niskanen? Yes, absolutely. It's pretty straightforward though - he wanted to go to Pittsburgh unfortunately. Not going to get into what his potential reasoning for that is - but I would seriously question what is leading people to believe that there was a lack of interest in Erhoff from other teams (including the Caps).

 

[ChibiPooky]

This seems pretty obvious to me. If this was really a scenario where had nothing else on the table, you wouldn't see him signing within 5 minutes of free agency opening. He's still getting money from the buyout and has the financial luxury of not worrying too much about this contract.

Would I have preferred him over Orpik and Niskanen? Yes, absolutely. It's pretty straightforward though - he wanted to go to Pittsburgh unfortunately. Not going to get into what his potential reasoning for that is - but I would seriously question what is leading people to believe that there was a lack of interest in Erhoff from other teams (including the Caps).

Regarding the Caps, their beat reporter reported that they didn't make him an offer. Don't know about other teams.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Real question: Do you think he got effectively frozen out by missing the first part of the "contact" window? That by the time he hit the market, teams had already committed too heavily to other guys?

That certainly looks like it happened here based on quotes that have come out over the past three weeks. I don't think its farfetched to think that was the case in Detroit (Niskanen and Boyle), Tampa (Garrison) and St. Louis (Gunnarsson). That's three very good teams. Tampa and St. Louis made their trades before his buyout began.

 

[Devil Dancer]

I'm pretty sure LTIR contracts are paid by insurance, not the team.

Interesting if true. Can anyone confirm? That would create a big incentive to LTIR under performing players.

 

[txpd]

That certainly looks like it happened here based on quotes that have come out over the past three weeks. I don't think its farfetched to think that was the case in Detroit (Niskanen and Boyle), Tampa (Garrison) and St. Louis (Gunnarsson). That's three very good teams. Tampa and St. Louis made their trades before his buyout began.

tampa bay wasn't finished though. they got stralman after the caps signed niskanen. I think these teams are far more flexible than you are giving credit.

 

[txpd]

Interesting if true. Can anyone confirm? That would create a big incentive to LTIR under performing players.

insurance is there to cover lost salary due to injury. if Erskine spends the season on LTIR, insurance likely covers that cost. Same was true of Poti.

you can't LTIR a player without an injury though.

Laich and Erskine. If Erskine is having concussion issues or his knee wont let him play and he fails his physical, he can go on LTIR for the season. Conversely if Laich is cleared to play, he can not be put on LTIR.

 

[Langway]

tampa bay wasn't finished though. they got stralman after the caps signed niskanen. I think these teams are far more flexible than you are giving credit.

Again, the Stralman deal was announced prior to the Niskanen deal.

 

[Kegger]

Again, the Stralman deal was announced prior to the Niskanen deal.

You beat me too it.

Yes, and TSN I believe also went on the air and speculated that Tampa may have offered Niskanen first, but grew tired of waiting and just tapped Stralman.

 

[txpd]

Again, the Stralman deal was announced prior to the Niskanen deal.

before...after. the idea that tampa bay couldn't consider an offer to ehrhoff because they were committed to stralman doesn't sound right.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

before...after. the idea that tampa bay couldn't consider an offer to ehrhoff because they were committed to stralman doesn't sound right.

They wouldn't have been able to go past $6.5 million this year -and likely less as they probably wanted a buffer. And Garrison is signed for 4 more years. A long term deal with Ehrhoff might not have worked.

 

[Roshi]

Well.. Id rather have Niskanen, Orpik and problems with the cap over two potatoes and zillions of cap space.

Ask me again after 3 years though.

As for now, we are not done yet. Im hoping we end up having Niskanen, Orpik and two potatoes.

 

[Hivemind]

Detroit has been on record stating they were willing to offer Ehrhoff three years at more money, and that Ehrhoff didn't give them time to counter Pittsburgh's official 1 yr/$4M offer. It's obvious that Ehrhoff had his heart on Pittsburgh, and that he signed the first official offer he received from them. He was snatched up within the first five minutes of free agency.

I'm pretty sure LTIR contracts are paid by insurance, not the team.

Depends if the team can insure the contract. I've always been under the impression each was insured individually, not as a blanket over all contracts. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Ajax1995]

So THN gave the Caps a D- so far for free agency this offseason.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/30-teams-30-grades-through-two-days-of-free-agency/

eclipsed only by San Jose's F...

 

[txpd]

I find it interesting that some called Niskanen a prime ufa and the best available defenseman while others treat him like he is Brian Pothier. The Orpik contract is indefensible, but the panning of the Niskanen deal, I don't get.

 

[BobRouse]

So THN gave the Caps a D- so far for free agency this offseason.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/30-teams-30-grades-through-two-days-of-free-agency/

eclipsed only by San Jose's F...

Pretty much every body ragged on the Caps especially for the Orpik contract but skrew them. We addressed the needs that we had and made the team better by far.

I recall a few years ago EVERYONE unanimously championed us the winners of free agency by getting Ward, Hamrlik and Vokoun on the cheap while trading Varly for a potential lottery 1st rounder. So yeah....

RE: Ehrhoff

Yeah I think you have to be stretching to think Ehrhoff was open to going to not-Pittsburgh.

RE: Niskanen vs Ehrhoff

Niskanen is younger so theres that but Craig Button hated the move for Pitt and felt Niskanen is the better player. Take it for what its worth but not everyone feels Ehrhoff is better.