ChibiPooky
Yay hockey!
I'm not quite sure what to say about some of these theories, but Reirden said in an interview that Orpik and Niskanen were targeted before he came on board.
Orpik and Niskanen vs Two Potatos
- Thread starter Zoidberg Jesus
- Start date
I'm not quite sure what to say about some of these theories, but Reirden said in an interview that Orpik and Niskanen were targeted before he came on board.
Carlzner
Registered User
txpd
Registered User
Right. Just what I was saying. Its way more than Rierden. Its hard to say what influence Poile might have had, but its logical. Trotz likely had access to the reports that Poile was getting on Oprik for selection to the Olympic team.
Start there. Shero came from Nashville. He may well have recommended both defensemen to Trotz after leaving his GM chair in Pittsburgh. Shero may have recommended Rierden.
It makes logical sense.
txpd
Registered User
I think its funny how with regularity the Orpik contract is used to drag back the Niskanen signing.
ChibiPooky
Yay hockey!
According to Joe Sakic in his interview that he's currently giving, Orpik was also being courted by Colorado, but chose Washington for family reasons. I wonder what the Avs offer was.
Codependent
Fail for Nail!
Zoidberg Jesus
Trotzkyist
- Oct 25, 2011
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@G00n: Since you didn't quote anyone, it seemed like that was directed at me. Thanks for the clarification.
@NBTW: I'm on my phone, so I can't link stuff easily. With Orpik, it's the drop in his CF%. He was consistently in the low 50s until the last two years, which have been in the mid 40s. It's the same minutes in the same system with pretty much the same personnel. Sure seems like he's the one that's changed, which supports what Pens fans have been saying. With Niskanen, the first part is the 1031 PDO that I've brought up a few times before. I don't think I need to explain to you what that means. Interesting fact, Tyler Myers had a 1031 PDO the year before he signed his long term deal. The other thing is his WOWY stats with Crosby and Malkin. His CF is about 8 points higher with each of them versus away, so you've got to wonder how much he owes to them. That's a way bigger bump than any of our guys got from Ovie.
@NBTW: I'm on my phone, so I can't link stuff easily. With Orpik, it's the drop in his CF%. He was consistently in the low 50s until the last two years, which have been in the mid 40s. It's the same minutes in the same system with pretty much the same personnel. Sure seems like he's the one that's changed, which supports what Pens fans have been saying. With Niskanen, the first part is the 1031 PDO that I've brought up a few times before. I don't think I need to explain to you what that means. Interesting fact, Tyler Myers had a 1031 PDO the year before he signed his long term deal. The other thing is his WOWY stats with Crosby and Malkin. His CF is about 8 points higher with each of them versus away, so you've got to wonder how much he owes to them. That's a way bigger bump than any of our guys got from Ovie.
Oh jesus. Maybe people are angry because they know something you don't: That there is a salary cap in the NHL.
We're better on defense now because we just significantly overpaid two players to replace two other players who were getting close to minimum wage. That we've improved isn't the only factor. That we're now going to be significantly hamstrung when signing/retaining anyone else (See: Grabo for immediate feedback) is what you're missing and they're not. When Carlson and/or Alzner walk in a few years and we're left with Nisk and Orpik as our 1/2 D, while Oprik is 36 or 37, maybe then you'll realize why people were so mad today.
Maybe.
We just paid $12M to upgrade over Olesky, Erskine and Hillen who made maybe $4M combined. Its a very costly, but modest upgrade that doesn't give us any room for error. And we still need a 2C, again.
strungout
Professional Killer
You realize the team is still under the cap....right?
With over $13,445,833 scheduled to come off the books next season?
With over $13,445,833 scheduled to come off the books next season?
strungout
Professional Killer
txpd
Registered User
I am not a fan of Niskanen and Orpik has been wildly overpaid. Facts are that they needed to add players. Doing business in the UFA market almost always means overpaying.
Just reading some more of the Detroit based stuff this morning they referred to Niskanen as the premier available UFA defenseman. He's making less than Green.
The Caps coaching and management wanted Orpik for reasons other than just his play on the ice. Its pretty clear. They were not going to get him for 2 years at $1.5m per.
Just reading some more of the Detroit based stuff this morning they referred to Niskanen as the premier available UFA defenseman. He's making less than Green.
The Caps coaching and management wanted Orpik for reasons other than just his play on the ice. Its pretty clear. They were not going to get him for 2 years at $1.5m per.
Langway
In den Wolken
- Jul 7, 2006
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That's a bit dramatic. The cap is likely to keep rising so, like every team that spends and has players signed to term, they're going to have to make some choices and keep a pipeline of cheap young talent coming through the system.
They have a lot of young wingers coming up so you'd figure that's the area they'll be very selective about in retaining players to healthy salaries (particularly fringe complementary wingers). These two contracts aren't going to stop them from retaining anyone in particular at this point. We're talking three years down the line before Alzner needs a deal, four for Carlson. We should be so lucky if Carlson emerges as a true #1D and requires making very hard decisions to keep him. Alzner isn't the type to command a huge deal and, if he does, much like Orpik he's likely not worth it all-around.
Worst-case buyouts remain an option. The way Orpik plays it wouldn't be surprising if he winds up on LTIR for the back-half of the contract. Either way, even if these are mediocre to poor contracts they're still not crippling. They're only crippling if a lot more poor decisions are made going forward.
strungout
Professional Killer
Plus salary cap growth! The Rogers deal will be factored in next year....so yeah.
I just dont get how so many can be so upset with this. They finally did what we have wanted them to do...and its "Whhaaaaaaa....too much...salary cap.....wahhhhhhh!"
The defense....its done for 3 years. The top four are set....for 3 years. If one gets hurt...LTIR! and you get someone else. But otherwise....its set. I cant even explain how calming it feels to know the Capitals...the Washington Capitals...have a solid top 4 and realistically a solid top 6 this season. 1 to 6....every guy can play 20 minutes. Once night Carlson can be your go to for offense...the next Niskanen...the next Green....throw in Orlov too. Shut down D? Alzner and Orpik...Orpik and Alzner.
Yeah, they over paid. But its done. Defense is done.
Even with Salary cap growth, and even with the room from departing players, they still need to understand value and judge a UFA player on future worth, not past value. They failed there pretty big time.
Defense is done IF and its a big IF, Orpik returns to form of about 3 years ago. Otherwise he's Poti, and we're sitting around counting the months until his albatross comes off the books.
strungout
Professional Killer
Agreed. Had we gone with conservative offers, we would be sitting here watching Orpik sign in San Jose and Niskanen sign in Detroit or something. And us with NOTHING and still a bunch more crying...
BrooklynCapsFan
No more choking!
Because salaries are capped, focusing on the high end of the market (Ehrhoff, Stastny, Suter, Parise, Chara, Hossa) seems to bite you a lot less. When you target the middling players, like we just did (and always have), you overpay.
BrooklynCapsFan
No more choking!
Or make Ehrhoff turn down a dumptruck full of money and convince Fayne that Washington is a better team than Edmonton. We'd have spent about the same and we'd have a far better team.
BobRouse
Registered User
- Mar 18, 2009
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Pretty much all those guys you mentioned had their destination picked out already.
Suter and Parise were going to Minnesota and nowhere else.
Statsny grew up in St Louis and his dad played there. Thats why he took less term to play there.
Ehrhoff wanted to goto PItt and thats obvious.
You can't target players who are intent on playing in one specific destination. Well..you can but its a waste of time.
txpd
Registered User
you don't really believe that 1 year at $4m was the best offer Ehrhoff had, do you?
BrooklynCapsFan
No more choking!
I do find it odd that I haven't read anything (from a real article to a tweet to even flat out speculation) to the contrary. Have you?
I also find it very hard to believe that he'd turn down $7x7 from a decent franchise in a decent city.
BobRouse
Registered User
- Mar 18, 2009
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He was on NHL network yesterday and said he wanted to go to a winner and sign for 1 year to see how he fits and then re-assess.
He signed pretty much right away. He sure seemed set on Pitt.
BrooklynCapsFan
No more choking!
Everyone signed right away because teams are able to talk to free agents before 7/1 now. That's no indication of anything.
And what else is he going to say? "I was bought out by the worst team of the modern era and teams are scared to offer me a real deal. I signed the only viable offer that I received.". Come on.
