Orpik and Niskanen vs Two Potatos

[BrooklynCapsFan]

I find it interesting that some called Niskanen a prime ufa and the best available defenseman while others treat him like he is Brian Pothier. The Orpik contract is indefensible, but the panning of the Niskanen deal, I don't get.

Just because he was the second best UFA dman doesn't make him good.

He's a good second pairing dman but nothing special. Look for 20-25 points, decent d, good skating, no physicality, no special teams play. Woohoo?

In a lot of ways he is Brian Pothier.

 

[swimmer77]

The sticker shock has worn off a bit. I'll give it a chance to play out.

 

[Ajax1995]

I'll give it a chance to play out.

Well that is just plain wrong. If there was ever a time to get out our Jump to Conclusions Mat it would be now...

 

[txpd]

Just because he was the second best UFA dman doesn't make him good.

He's a good second pairing dman but nothing special. Look for 20-25 points, decent d, good skating, no physicality, no special teams play. Woohoo?

In a lot of ways he is Brian Pothier.

wondering what would make you happy. as for me, I am not a Niskanen fan but I recall seeing many hockey types pumping Niskanen up, not as a glorified 3rd pair guy either.

I also remember that as a GMGM defender I am required to support the new management.

 

[Hivemind]

What's the fun of the forums if you can't shout your opinion and argue about it?

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

wondering what would make you happy. as for me, I am not a Niskanen fan but I recall seeing many hockey types pumping Niskanen up, not as a glorified 3rd pair guy either.

I also remember that as a GMGM defender I am required to support the new management.

Spending $11 million on Ehrhoff and Fayne would have made me incredibly happy.

 

[Roughing]

Niskanen, Peters, and Gorges (plus enough for maybe Legwand) would have been perfect for me. Ya never know how things go down though. Just getting Nisk, Peters, and a good 2C would have been great. As it is, I'm very happy with two of the pickups. The Orpik deal is terrible. Nothing will change that so here's hoping he at least proves a great mentor for the young Dmen in the org and the money isn't prohibitive to adding another C this season.

 

[artilector]

The sticker shock has worn off a bit. I'll give it a chance to play out.

Stockholm syndrome.

 

[txpd]

Spending $11 million on Ehrhoff and Fayne would have made me incredibly happy.

I don't know boo about Fayne but Ehrhoff wasn't available to the caps. but I would love to see you be a happy camper for a period of time to see what its like.

I always wonder about things like Fayne. He chose Edmonton early on day one. We beat MacLellan down for not landing him. There are 28 other teams that apparently either didn't want him or couldn't convince him they were a better choice than Edmonton. I would imagine those reasons that Fayne had for choosing Edmonton would explain why he wasn't an option for the Caps

 

[Halpysback*]

wondering what would make you happy. as for me, I am not a Niskanen fan but I recall seeing many hockey types pumping Niskanen up, not as a glorified 3rd pair guy either.

I also remember that as a GMGM defender I am required to support the new management.

Hockley types also thought semin sucked and Clarkson was this great power forward

 

[KevinM]

Hockley types also thought semin sucked and Clarkson was this great power forward

It's almost like if they knew anything about the game they might....not be in it?

 

[Hivemind]

Clearly, any player who plays outside of Washington "wasn't an option for the Caps"

 

[txpd]

Hockley types also thought semin sucked and Clarkson was this great power forward

lots of fans here thought semin sucked. you don't remember? lots of hockey media thought the Clarkson deal was nuts. Much the same response they had to the Orpik deal.

I need to remember that for some here they there is not hockey professional that sees things as well as they do themselves.

 

[txpd]

Clearly, any player who plays outside of Washington "wasn't an option for the Caps"

yea....funny. haha. so you don't believe that parise and suter meant to sign with Minnesota last season and that the rest of the league was not on their list?

 

[Hivemind]

yea....funny. haha. so you don't believe that parise and suter meant to sign with Minnesota last season and that the rest of the league was not on their list?

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

 

[txpd]

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

where's the straw man? you said, "Clearly, any player who plays outside of Washington "wasn't an option for the Caps""

I list a documented example of players that wanted to play for one team. Ryan Suter is a strawman?

 

[Hivemind]

where's the straw man? you said, "Clearly, any player who plays outside of Washington "wasn't an option for the Caps""

I list a documented example of players that wanted to play for one team. Ryan Suter is a strawman?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denying_the_antecedent

 

[trick9]

I really like the Niskanen signing. He's basically offensively slight downgrade from Green but defensively he is miles better than Green. With the cap (90% certainty) going up i have no issue with his contract, but as a concept that Orpik signing just makes it overally look pretty bad.

Yes, Orpik is pretty much everything this team needs defensively, but there isn't single Caps -fan that can honestly justify giving him contract like that.

 

[Hivemind]

I really like the Niskanen signing. He's basically offensively slight downgrade from Green but defensively he is miles better than Green. With the cap (90% certainty) going up i have no issue with his contract, but as a concept that Orpik signing just makes it overally look pretty bad.

In what way is Niskanen miles better than Green defensively? Have you watched Niskanen? Niskanen didn't face top lines, he rarely killed penalties, he's committed the most penalties (both total and per 60) and drew the fewest (per 60) among Penguins blueliners, he's not great in 1-on-1 match-ups, and he was abused defensively during the playoffs (10 goals against and the 2nd worst possession numbers on the Pens blueline).

 

[Ajax1995]

Spending $11 million on Ehrhoff and Fayne would have made me incredibly happy.

Or the roughly $7.75 mil per it would have taken to actually add them but whatever...

Unless the Sabres were deathly afraid of him retiring and there being some big cap recapture penalty and thus were not willing to trade him to anyone I have no doubt the Caps could have sent then Erskine, let them buy out him if they really wanted to, and given the Caps Ehrhoff and his $4 mil cap hit for the next 7 years. I'd take Ehrhoff and his $4 mil cap hit until 38 over Orpik and his $5.5 mil cal hit until he is 38 any day.

And if Fayne signed with the Oilers for 4 years and $3.625 mil per I'm sure the Caps would have been able to sign him for the same term and a little bit more, say $3.75 mil per. I'm sure an American, from New Hampshire, who went to Providence, and has spent his whole career on the east coast, doesn't have any real affinity for western Canada.

And given that we know what Gorges cost, the Caps could have definitely topped that and added him for another $3.9 mil per.

So the Caps could have had Ehrhoff, Fayne, and Gorges for $11.65 mil per instead of Orpik and Niskanen for $11.25 mil per.

Then they could have traded Green away for futures and added a 2nd line centerman and still have some cash left over but whatever...

 

[NeilYoung]

Or the roughly $7.75 mil per it would have taken to actually add them but whatever...

Unless the Sabres were deathly afraid of him retiring and there being some big cap recapture penalty and thus were not willing to trade him to anyone I have no doubt the Caps could have sent then Erskine, let them buy out him if they really wanted to, and given the Caps Ehrhoff and his $4 mil cap hit for the next 7 years. I'd take Ehrhoff and his $4 mil cap hit until 38 over Orpik and his $5.5 mil cal hit until he is 38 any day.

And if Fayne signed with the Oilers for 4 years and $3.625 mil per I'm sure the Caps would have been able to sign him for the same term and a little bit more, say $3.75 mil per. I'm sure an American, from New Hampshire, who went to Providence, and has spent his whole career on the east coast, doesn't have any real affinity for western Canada.

And given that we know what Gorges cost, the Caps could have definitely topped that and added him for another $3.9 mil per.

So the Caps could have had Ehrhoff, Fayne, and Gorges for $11.65 mil per instead of Orpik and Niskanen for $11.25 mil per.

Then they could have traded Green away for futures and added a 2nd line centerman and still have some cash left over but whatever...

Im guessing somehow you missed Erhoff getting bought out?

 

[Ajax1995]

Im guessing somehow you missed Erhoff getting bought out?

Before they bought him out I'm sure he was available via trade. And even if he wasn't to buy someone out you have to first make him available via waivers and the Caps could have simply claimed him.

 

[Ajax1995]

And I should add that pretty much everyone around here was 100% on board with dealing Johansson + this year's 1st for Ehrhoff. Sure many were hoping maybe the Sabres would pick up some of his salary but I would be pretty confident that having to pay all of his salary in return for giving up nothing to get him wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Langway]

Unless the Sabres were deathly afraid of him retiring and there being some big cap recapture penalty and thus were not willing to trade him to anyone I have no doubt the Caps could have sent then Erskine, let them buy out him if they really wanted to, and given the Caps Ehrhoff and his $4 mil cap hit for the next 7 years. I'd take Ehrhoff and his $4 mil cap hit until 38 over Orpik and his $5.5 mil cal hit until he is 38 any day.

They certainly had cap recapture concerns. It makes no sense whatsoever to buy him out otherwise. It's not like they used a regular buyout where it would still help them reach the cap floor or anything. They easily could have traded him if they wanted to. He also had a NMC so he had the right to decline buyout waivers. In any event, given that they didn't even contact his agent after he was bought out it's fair to say they weren't interested in him either way.

The could have had game doesn't really translate...not in Ehrhoff's case anyway. What Pittsburgh got him for is not necessarily what Washington or anyone else could have. They certainly should have had interest and made him a target but that was not a market value signing.

Is pro scouting a continued issue? You betcha. The intention is an improvement but the execution leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[usiel]

They certainly had cap recapture concerns. It makes no sense whatsoever to buy him out otherwise. It's not like they used a regular buyout where it would still help them reach the cap floor or anything. They easily could have traded him if they wanted to. He also had a NMC so he had the right to decline buyout waivers. In any event, given that they didn't even contact his agent after he was bought out it's fair to say they weren't interested in him either way.

The could have had game doesn't really translate...not in Ehrhoff's case anyway. What Pittsburgh got him for is not necessarily what Washington or anyone else could have. They certainly should have had interest and made him a target but that was not a market value signing.

Is pro scouting a continued issue? You betcha. The intention is an improvement but the execution leaves a lot to be desired.

That recapture stuff is pretty brutal. An Buffalo is also in uber tank mode/rebuild which I can understand as they are going for a hard core rebuild with two great prospects next draft atm.