Confirmed Trade: [NYR/WPG] Jacob Trouba for Neal Pionk and 2019 1st (20 OV) Part II

[Babooch]

Overrated by some for sure. Like the Jets fan who said Trouba is a better PP Dman than Ghost.

yep Trouba is not very good running a PP. But has a well rounded skill set and can log serious minutes. He is a touch slow in decision making with the puck, but a tough defender without it. Contract negotiations will be interesting. He's worth closer to 6M than 10M because he's simply not an elite player with the puck.

 

[Babooch]

Man jets fans turned on Trouba fast... haha

not I. He gave us 6 prime years of his career which is fair. While his agent caused some issues he always played hard as a Jet. Except for the few months he held out!

 

[Ken Lund]

As a Ranger fan who initially liked Pionk and grew to hate him I have to say he got thrown into the deep end of the pool last season. Playing for a better team on a third pair he might regain his confidence and find his footing again. There is some talent there.

 

[JoemAvs]

I think one underappreciated factor here is the Myers situation. Looks like Chevy knew that Trouba was gone in 12 months at the latest and that if he wanted to keep Myers (whether that is a great decision or not), this was the time to strike to free up the capspace and role that enables them to retain Myers longterm.

Given the smaller cap increase and Laine, Connor, Myers and a ton of depth still left to sign, he just took the deal that gave him the highest possible 1st, a cheaper depth D replacement with a bit of potential left and that did not require any involvement of Troubas and his agent to get this done asap before Myers is free to talk to other teams...

Doubt that any team with a better 1st would have fit the bill (think most if not all of them would have atleast wanted to talk to Troubas agent to see if there is a realistic chance that they can make it work longterm. Only a team like the Rangers can afford not to I guess. And there was also a very good chance that Chevy knew that Trouba was not open to even talk about re-signing with 95% of the teams that were interested because he already had his eyes on the Rangers or Wings which further kills his leverage )

I hate the value and Chevy should have traded him a longtime ago but I kind of get now where he was coming from even though I am not a huge Myers fan so I am not sure that he made a great decision.

 

[12Dog]

rangers made a good trade
Hayes reportedly is getting 7 a year from flyers
Anyone who has followed Trouba and his contract negotiations, must know he’s been angling for his shot at the pie. Hayes got seven, Trouba , 25 year old rhd? What’s his ask?

 

[howkie]

rangers made a good trade
Hayes reportedly is getting 7 a year from flyers
Anyone who has followed Trouba and his contract negotiations, must know he’s been angling for his shot at the pie. Hayes got seven, Trouba , 25 year old rhd? What’s his ask?

Not less then Hayes is my guess, he has almost UFA status

 

[Doctyl]

Not less then Hayes is my guess, he has almost UFA status

Understandable considering they scored about the same number of points last season

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Serious question for Rangers fans- Where the Rangers going to get another top 6 center from? I know they needed D, but what assets are going to get them another good pivot?

I believe, we hope that one of our kids makes the jump. I personally don't see it. Kakko and Kravtsov both played some center, but want to stay wingers I suppose. Chytil is still very young, could very well be that #2 center. Although I'd rather have some other kid at 1 and Zibs as a #2 centerman, Chytil prob as a wing. Howden is a middle-six guy. Lias Andersson, really hard to assess at the moment.

Again, either one of our kids makes it, or we'll try and draft one. We are set at D, I hope. So many prospects.
Need to draft wingers now.

 

[Off Sides]

A few thoughts:

1. Why is the value in this trade any different from the value in like the last 10 comparable trades we have seen? The Karlsson trade. The McDonagh trade. Skinner's trade and all those moves.

People need to realize that with all teams nowadays seeing their future being limited by the cap, contribution/cap hit will be what matters. A guy one year removed from UFA will at best have a contribution/cap hit that is somewhat shady.

And its certainly the same with the possible PK Subban trade.

2. I think people really are underrating Neal Pionk. Look, many just don't understand the impact of usage on metrics. Some math professor said that it doesn't matter as much as some think, and it fits the narrative of people that want to be able to be hockey experts without knowing anything about the game. Quite frankly. Facts are that there are a ton of noise impacting that observation. Especially on the Rangers, the numbers defenders get when getting the toughest shifts are 180' different from what they get when they get the easiest shifts.

A bunch of ranger defenders have under two different NHL coaches failed to step up and take on the toughest defensive assignments. Neal Pionk, 5'11 PMD rookie didn't, and have mostly been the one that have gone up against the best of the East night in and night out. Those shift after shift after shift against AO, Crosby, Malkin, Kucherov and co wears on you.

Pionk is down right fantastic at staying with his guy and taking away space and time defensively. When he gets the puck he has very good poise with it, and can get out of pressure.

However, he has one issue. He hasn't been able to value situations and just make the quick out-let pass when he should be able to do that, or hang on to the puck when there is no pass to make. As a result the opponents get to set-up and it has an impact looking at bigger sample size for sure. It should definitely be fixable, and a lot of it could straight itself out if he can get a little easier minutes.

3. The 20 is not a bad pick, albeit I think that this draft is kind of limited to a top 13-14 and then peaking with a great 30-50, but someone good shall fall to 20.

One scenario is that Trouba gets a 1 year deal and then is moved as a rental at the deadline. The pick NYR gets then would probably be a whole notch worse (with the difference between 20 and 27-31 basically being as big as the difference between a 1st and a 2nd).

Good post,

You and I may be the only two Rangers fans who post often who see this in a similar way.

For all the bravado, all the Rangers have done was trade a rental like return for a player who has one RFA year left, who is currently not under contract.

He could end up on a one year deal for his last RFA year. Sure the Rangers could maybe sell him as a rental again yet there is no guarantee he would be healthy or they'd be able to get back a pick which equates to the #20 in 2019.

For the price paid in trade, I think it's worth the chance this works out. They may be able to extend him to something like 7.5-8M, and even then I'm not going to declare that is the best contract ever, just as neither of us did with Shattenkirk when most others had determined that was the best bargain in the league.

Until Trouba is signed to a contract which correlates to a below elite RD level, which buys up at least some UFA years, I'm not going to proclaim this a "steal"

I think Trouba is a good player, not an elite one. He may end up asking for elite player money and some team may give it to him. Rangers regardless of what they paid in trade may have this turn out poorly for them should he ask for that and the Rangers give it to him.

 

[Hunter368]

Good post,

You and I may be the only two Rangers fans who post often who see this in a similar way.

For all the bravado, all the Rangers have done was trade a rental like return for a player who has one RFA year left, who is currently not under contract.

He could end up on a one year deal for his last RFA year. Sure the Rangers could maybe sell him as a rental again yet there is no guarantee he would be healthy or they'd be able to get back a pick which equates to the #20 in 2019.

For the price paid in trade, I think it's worth the chance this works out. They may be able to extend him to something like 7.5-8M, and even then I'm not going to declare that is the best contract ever, just as neither of us did with Shattenkirk when most others had determined that was the best bargain in the league.

Until Trouba is signed to a contract which correlates to a below elite RD level, which buys up at least some UFA years, I'm not going to proclaim this a "steal"

I think Trouba is a good player, not an elite one. He may end up asking for elite player money and some team may give it to him. Rangers regardless of what they paid in trade may have this turn out poorly for them should he ask for that and the Rangers give it to him.

@Ola

Few points:

- Trouba is a good top pairing RHD, I agree though he’s not elite.

- Return on Trouba, no one thought (or shouldn’t of if they did) the Jets would get a RFA Trouba clone back, no team would consider that. I think the best case the Jets could of gotten was a RFA (or already under contract) Top 4 RHD back. In the end the Jets got a good young bottom pairing RHD that has potential to improve to maybe a #4 guy with time, coaching and the right system & support. To bridge that gap in value the 20th OA was also given. I might be one of the few Jets fans who doesn’t hate the return......especially considering according to reports Trouba camp gave Chevy maybe as little as one team to trade him to. So I’m not upset with the job Chevy did on this trade (but see my last comment below).

- I agree with Ola comments regarding Pionk, I think some are under rating him. I view him as a similar young player/prospect as Niku. As I’ve stated to some Jets fans imagine throwing Niku (or any prospect) on a bad Rangers Top pairing and asked to shut down all the other teams top forwards......imagine how that would go? Imagine how that would effect his analytics. It would be a train wreck.

- I can’t hate on the job Chevy did in this job after KO tied his hands. But using hindsight, it is fair to be critical of Chevy not trading Trouba at some point in the previous 2-3 years after his original trade request. I know hindsight makes everyone look smart, but knowing KO tactics firsthand now.....Chevy better not make that mistake again. I can forgive that type of misguided trust/faith once.....but KO can’t be trusted again. Business is business with KO, moving forward I would treat it just that way with any KO players. Ruthless business with any KO players.

 

[Off Sides]

@Ola

Few points:

- Trouba is a good top pairing RHD, I agree though he’s not elite.

- Return on Trouba, no one thought (or shouldn’t of if they did) the Jets would get a RFA Trouba clone back, no team would consider that. I think the best case the Jets could of gotten was a RFA (or already under contract) Top 4 RHD back. In the end the Jets got a good young bottom pairing RHD that has potential to improve to maybe a #4 guy with time, coaching and the right system & support. To bridge that gap in value the 20th OA was also given. I might be one of the few Jets fans who doesn’t hate the return......especially considering according to reports Trouba camp gave Chevy maybe as little as one team to trade him to. So I’m not upset with the job Chevy did on this trade (but see my last comment below).

- I agree with Ola comments regarding Pionk, I think some are under rating him. I view him as a similar young player/prospect as Niku. As I’ve stated to some Jets fans imagine throwing Niku (or any prospect) on a bad Rangers Top pairing and asked to shut down all the other teams top forwards......imagine how that would go? Imagine how that would effect his analytics. It would be a train wreck.

- I can’t hate on the job Chevy did in this job after KO tied his hands. But using hindsight, it is fair to be critical of Chevy not trading Trouba at some point in the previous 2-3 years after his original trade request. I know hindsight makes everyone look smart, but knowing KO tactics firsthand now.....Chevy better not make that mistake again. I can forgive that type of misguided trust/faith once.....but KO can’t be trusted again. Business is business with KO, moving forward I would treat it just that way with any KO players. Ruthless business with any KO players.

Pionk, he was playing well above his head last year, actually ever since he played in the NHL.

In my opinion his deficiency is in defending and with smart puck choices.

He allows entries way to easily. If he could learn the timing, gap control, and stick work at his own blue line to disrupt an entry I think he'd be passable in that area. Once in his zone I think he will always have issues unless he really improves his strength.

If he can learn to not make a panic puck clear out of his own zone, the throw it off the boards/glass for a likely turnover and re-entry, it would also improve his game. He can skate, he can carry the puck yet he seems to have trouble finding the quick outlet pass so it become predictable, if pressured he is going to throw the puck up ice.

I think he is probably a NHL player, more of a 3rd pair player who could do a better job defending against lesser opponents, where he could also beat them up ice the other way should he clean up his decision making and timing.

I value the #20 pick more so than Pionk at this time, I'd say that pick/prospect in this draft probably has a decent chance to eclipse Pionk. Jets tend to draft well too.

I don't think Trouba as a unsigned, one RFA year left player was ever going to get more than a rental like return without an extension in place.

I've debated with many fellow Rangers fans saying I do not think Kreider with only a year left on his deal will return anything more than a rental like return one for one should no extension be lined up there either.

Rangers are banking on being able to get Trouba extended, yet in my opinion that may result in a contract which just does not quite fit the player, similar to, and if anyone trades for Kreider.

 

[gach]

Trouba doesn't have a NTC

He gave a list of teams he would resign with and the only team that could afford him and still be under the cap was the Rangers so Jets were boxed in

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Serious question for Rangers fans- Where the Rangers going to get another top 6 center from? I know they needed D, but what assets are going to get them another good pivot?

Well, that all depends on how cute Shero gets on Friday, now doesn't it...?

In all seriousness (and presuming we wind up with Kakko), the team supposedly envisions both Chytil and Andersson as centers, Morgan Barron has been a real surprise at Cornell and may turn out to be a late round gem, and of course we already have Howden, though I think most project him as a very good 3rd liner in his prime. Should none of those four fills the role behind Zibanejad, there are strong rumors that they'll try to trade back into the first round to get one of Turcotte/Zegras/Cozens/Dach/Newhook. Then, should any of those opportunities fail to materialize, I think you're looking at an "asset allocation" trade where we move one/some of our plethora of prospects on the blueline for one who projects as a 2c.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Jets better draft a steal at 20 or they got screwed

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Jets better draft a steal at 20 or they got screwed

Sounds like there will be some good d-men options around that spot so that's a plus I guess.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Not sure if this was posted but this really changes the situation from "LOL CHEVY"

Penguins were not alone in making a superior offer for Trouba than the Rangers & More Buzz

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Not less then Hayes is my guess, he has almost UFA status

That being said, New York is where he wants to play, so there is definitely some negotiating leverage on the rangers side as well.

 

[topshelf15]

The Jets had no leverage,this much should be plain by now...The players always hold the cards...And in any free enterprise they will always do what is best for them...

Bashing Jet fans for an unrealstic return only sets you up for the same, whenever it eventually happens with your team

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Not sure if this was posted but this really changes the situation from "LOL CHEVY"

Penguins were not alone in making a superior offer for Trouba than the Rangers & More Buzz

The situation getting to this point is still on Cheveldayoff I'd say. Trouba was a malcontent for years now, and he kept him around in the hopes of competing. It was always going to end up like this, and I don't think it was worth it

 

[GoJetsGo55]

The situation getting to this point is still on Cheveldayoff I'd say. Trouba was a malcontent for years now, and he kept him around in the hopes of competing. It was always going to end up like this, and I don't think it was worth it

I guess. We did end up in the WCF with Trouba logging big minutes. If he can be faulted for anything, it's keeping him for this year but how do you trade away such a key piece when the team was hoping for similar success this year?

Would be a different story if we didn't lose in the first round to the cup winners but that's not what happened.

 

[NYRKing]

Not sure if this was posted but this really changes the situation from "LOL CHEVY"

Penguins were not alone in making a superior offer for Trouba than the Rangers & More Buzz

Was just looking to see if someone posted this. It gives really good context for the situation. No doubt, WPG was handcuffed in this situation.

In this case, being a contender last year actually hurt this outcome. They probably would have shipped him during the season for a better a package at the deadline if they were out of it.

 

[Lays]

@Ola

Few points:

- Trouba is a good top pairing RHD, I agree though he’s not elite.

- Return on Trouba, no one thought (or shouldn’t of if they did) the Jets would get a RFA Trouba clone back, no team would consider that. I think the best case the Jets could of gotten was a RFA (or already under contract) Top 4 RHD back. In the end the Jets got a good young bottom pairing RHD that has potential to improve to maybe a #4 guy with time, coaching and the right system & support. To bridge that gap in value the 20th OA was also given. I might be one of the few Jets fans who doesn’t hate the return......especially considering according to reports Trouba camp gave Chevy maybe as little as one team to trade him to. So I’m not upset with the job Chevy did on this trade (but see my last comment below).

- I agree with Ola comments regarding Pionk, I think some are under rating him. I view him as a similar young player/prospect as Niku. As I’ve stated to some Jets fans imagine throwing Niku (or any prospect) on a bad Rangers Top pairing and asked to shut down all the other teams top forwards......imagine how that would go? Imagine how that would effect his analytics. It would be a train wreck.

- I can’t hate on the job Chevy did in this job after KO tied his hands. But using hindsight, it is fair to be critical of Chevy not trading Trouba at some point in the previous 2-3 years after his original trade request. I know hindsight makes everyone look smart, but knowing KO tactics firsthand now.....Chevy better not make that mistake again. I can forgive that type of misguided trust/faith once.....but KO can’t be trusted again. Business is business with KO, moving forward I would treat it just that way with any KO players. Ruthless business with any KO players.

Pionk is 24 next month. Niku is younger and has produced much better in the AHL. Yes Pionk played top pairing early on but that was stopped once DeAngelo started taking over. And Pionk was actually better early on too, no matter where he played in the lineup he was awful. He got worse and worse as the year went on and his offensive production disappeared once he got less PP time. He started off PPG through ~10 games. He has some decent offensive upside to maybe be a 35-40 point PP defenseman. He sucks in transition and usually resorts to chipping it off the glass and his all around decision making is awful. Defensively, I’m not kidding when I say this but he is legit among the worst in the league. He was the worst defenseman on a blue line that had Brendan Smith and Marc Staal as regulars. I’m not only saying this because we traded Pionk, I’m being brutally honest. I was a fan of Pionk for a while but he is barely an NHL caliber defenseman. He might put up decent numbers on the Jets though due to their offense. Pionk wasn’t only bad because he had some top pairing time. He was awful regardless of that. I used to be a fan of him too earlier on and tried to defend him but eventually I turned on him by the new year. Niku had 54 points in 76 AHL games at 21 and 12 in 20 at 22. Pionk had 17 in 48 AHL games last season (22 years old.) Unless Niku is complete garbage defensively, which he isn’t (though it needs to improve) They are nothing alike. And again, not saying this because we traded Pionk, but check the Pionk discussion threads on our board and everyone was in agreement. I’d bet very good money Jets fans hate Pionk by December. He’s a good guy though and I wish him the best but he isn’t good

 

[72hockey guy]

I dont think this clears chevy at all, I mean didnt he know who he was dealing with? Overhardt and walsh have a history of doing whatever is necessary to service their clients

Kyle Turris out of Phoenix
Ryan Johanssen out of columbus
Ryan Kesler out of Philly
Jacob Trouba out of Winnipeg

clearly Chevy knew what he potentially was dealing with and chose to let this go to the point where he lost all leverage

I think this talk of doing trouba a favor is all spin by the owner

 

[Siddi]

That was your argument ? Lolllll omg what a sad excuse .

New York hasn't been a team that any elite talent has beat down the door to go play for.

Also new York is a joke of a city and state, high taxes , potholes , and crappy outdated homes , condos.


Tell me what player wants to go play for a team that hasn't been in the mix of real serious contention in over 20 plus years? Also while being in his mind underpaid and over taxed ?

Presidents trophy, Stanley Cup Finals, 2x Eastern Conference finals, all within the past 5 years.

Also, potholes? Friend, have you been in Jersey thinking you were in NYC? We are on the other side of the Hudson. Actually hilarious

Enjoy!

 

[bukwas]

Obviously an ugly trade for the Jets no matter what ifs, ands or buts people try to inject to mask it.
Chevy needs to make some solid signings this summer even to his score.