Confirmed Trade: [NYR/WPG] Jacob Trouba for Neal Pionk and 2019 1st (20 OV) Part II

[MMC]

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Part I: Confirmed Trade: - [NYR/WPG] Jacob Trouba for Neal Pionk and 2019 1st (20 OV)

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[The Crypto Guy]

Still can't believe this trade.

Gorton has nudies of Cheve?

That's the only conclusion I have been able to come up with.

 

[CraigsList]

Pionk + 20th OA = Frost, 11th OA, and Myers?

 

[Dog]

All I can say is Chevy lost a late night poker game.

 

[jrs]

Chevys cell connection was cutting out at the lake when he was asking for 2oa and pionk and gorton heard 20oa and pionk and agreed to the trade.

 

[Duke749]

Yuck. That is all.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Meanwhile at Jets' fan club meetings...

 

[egelband]

All I can say is Chevy lost a late night poker game.

Maybe he's trying to launch a Broadway musical.

 

[Revelation]

What other options did they even have if Trouba wouldn't sign long term with anyone else

Its this or arbitration + he walks for nothing after being a distraction for a year

 

[howkie]

Meanwhile at Jets' fan club meetings...

Damit, you have a camera in my office?!?!?!

 

[HABSFTW]

What a head scratcher. I'm guessing Trouba was only looking to sign long term with the Rangers, making them the only dance partner?

 

[howkie]

What a head scratcher. I'm guessing Trouba was only looking to sign long term with the Rangers, making them the only dance partner?

Does not make sense, since Cheavy refused Rangers to talk to Trouba before the trade. but maybe Cheavy was butthurt, still Think he could get better offer then this.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Damit, you have a camera in my office?!?!?!

... Unfortunately.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

People will be equally disgusted when they find out how much money Trouba is looking for. IIRC on a long-term deal he wanted 8M last year, and that was with 79.5M cap. What is he going to ask next summer, when the cap is like 5-6M more than that and he’s got all the leverage ? I think his asking price will probably start at 10, pretty easily actually.

I basically knew he was done as a Jet last summer when a reporter asked about cashing in, and Trouba just chuckled and said that’s what he’s been trying to do for couple years now.

Maybe he’ll come down on his demands for the right destination but you would think the Jets let him negotiate a contract if they thought that’s the case and he just doesn’t want to sign in Winnipeg. But the fact that they didn’t is probably a good indication of them knowing negotiating with Trouba right know doesn’t increase his value.

Basically we were talking about a 1 year rental despite him being an RFA. So obviously the price wasn’t going to be ideal.

There’s an argument to be made that the Jets would’ve been better off with Trouba for 1 year, however there’s a few things that make it not desirable. Distraction is one thing, as well as not having a 1st for 2 years in a row. Also there’s some slight cap room to be gained (probably) compared to Myers and they need all they can get as keeping their forwards will be tough.

Sucks but it is what it is.

Whether he chooses to re-sign or not will be interesting to see. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a team like NYI swoop in in the end. They’re much closer to being consistently good than the Rangers, who are icing 2 established top 6 forwards for next season barring any further moves (maybe 3 if you count Buchnevich who will get the ice time to put together a more consistent season). Trouba isn’t going to make the Rangers good for next year. It’s very possible he’s traded at the TDL to salvage these assets they gave up, i doubt the re-building Rangers are going to be waiting around for the summer unless they feel confident about their chances to keep him.

And if he does choose to stay, and the Rangers in the end got a good defenseman for cheap, at least it's a team that the Jets could care less about in terms of competition for a while.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Jets fans, look at the bright side; the Trouba trade doesn’t look so bad compared to this.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Cheveldayoff just went all in on an ace high

 

[tradenashnow]

Trouba is not getting 10 million. Or 9 million. Just stop.

 

[GJF]

I'm not sure if it was posted in the first part and I'm not going to go through the entire thread to find out but I guess to have it on the first page here is good anyway.

Trouba confirmed to Winnipeg Sportswriter Ken Wiebe yesterday on the phone, that his decision to 100% sure leave Winnipeg has been set for years because of his fiancee. She's going to be a Doctor with the rights to work in the States obviously and her to thrive in her own career ist just as important to Trouba's career decisions as his own career decisions. Something that I very much respect him for, even as a Winnipeg Jets fan that would wish him to love being a Jet and stay here long term for a nice term.

“It’s a great opportunity for myself and my fiancée,” said Trouba, whose partner is about to start her residency in her quest to become a doctor. “Her career is as important as my career. We both are passionate about different things and our goal from a couple of years back was we wanted to make this work. And we decided we wanted to make this work. This is part of it, to be realistic with you.
“From a life standpoint, that’s what I decided in the end. I’m going to marry the girl and I want her to be happy and for her dreams to be fulfilled. She’s worked extremely hard to get where she is with schooling and the time she’s put in. I want her to see her be successful just as much as I want to be successful.”

Original source and more talk about leaving and going to NYR: Personal decision for Trouba: Jets weren’t the issue for departing defenceman

 

[Ola]

A few thoughts:

1. Why is the value in this trade any different from the value in like the last 10 comparable trades we have seen? The Karlsson trade. The McDonagh trade. Skinner's trade and all those moves.

People need to realize that with all teams nowadays seeing their future being limited by the cap, contribution/cap hit will be what matters. A guy one year removed from UFA will at best have a contribution/cap hit that is somewhat shady.

And its certainly the same with the possible PK Subban trade.

2. I think people really are underrating Neal Pionk. Look, many just don't understand the impact of usage on metrics. Some math professor said that it doesn't matter as much as some think, and it fits the narrative of people that want to be able to be hockey experts without knowing anything about the game. Quite frankly. Facts are that there are a ton of noise impacting that observation. Especially on the Rangers, the numbers defenders get when getting the toughest shifts are 180' different from what they get when they get the easiest shifts.

A bunch of ranger defenders have under two different NHL coaches failed to step up and take on the toughest defensive assignments. Neal Pionk, 5'11 PMD rookie didn't, and have mostly been the one that have gone up against the best of the East night in and night out. Those shift after shift after shift against AO, Crosby, Malkin, Kucherov and co wears on you.

Pionk is down right fantastic at staying with his guy and taking away space and time defensively. When he gets the puck he has very good poise with it, and can get out of pressure.

However, he has one issue. He hasn't been able to value situations and just make the quick out-let pass when he should be able to do that, or hang on to the puck when there is no pass to make. As a result the opponents get to set-up and it has an impact looking at bigger sample size for sure. It should definitely be fixable, and a lot of it could straight itself out if he can get a little easier minutes.

3. The 20 is not a bad pick, albeit I think that this draft is kind of limited to a top 13-14 and then peaking with a great 30-50, but someone good shall fall to 20.

One scenario is that Trouba gets a 1 year deal and then is moved as a rental at the deadline. The pick NYR gets then would probably be a whole notch worse (with the difference between 20 and 27-31 basically being as big as the difference between a 1st and a 2nd).

 

[Seanaconda]

People will be equally disgusted when they find out how much money Trouba is looking for. IIRC on a long-term deal he wanted 8M last year, and that was with 79.5M cap. What is he going to ask next summer, when the cap is like 5-6M more than that and he’s got all the leverage ? I think his asking price will probably start at 10, pretty easily actually.

I basically knew he was done as a Jet last summer when a reporter asked about cashing in, and Trouba just chuckled and said that’s what he’s been trying to do for couple years now.

Maybe he’ll come down on his demands for the right destination but you would think the Jets let him negotiate a contract if they thought that’s the case and he just doesn’t want to sign in Winnipeg. But the fact that they didn’t is probably a good indication of them knowing negotiating with Trouba right know doesn’t increase his value.

Basically we were talking about a 1 year rental despite him being an RFA. So obviously the price wasn’t going to be ideal.

There’s an argument to be made that the Jets would’ve been better off with Trouba for 1 year, however there’s a few things that make it not desirable. Distraction is one thing, as well as not having a 1st for 2 years in a row. Also there’s some slight cap room to be gained (probably) compared to Myers and they need all they can get as keeping their forwards will be tough.

Sucks but it is what it is.

Whether he chooses to re-sign or not will be interesting to see. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a team like NYI swoop in in the end. They’re much closer to being consistently good than the Rangers, who are icing 2 established top 6 forwards for next season barring any further moves (maybe 3 if you count Buchnevich who will get the ice time to put together a more consistent season). Trouba isn’t going to make the Rangers good for next year. It’s very possible he’s traded at the TDL to salvage these assets they gave up, i doubt the re-building Rangers are going to be waiting around for the summer unless they feel confident about their chances to keep him.

And if he does choose to stay, and the Rangers in the end got a good defenseman for cheap, at least it's a team that the Jets could care less about in terms of competition for a while.

Man itll be funny if the rangers swap him out at the deadline to a contender for a better package . They should have put conditional picks on the trade at least.

Retain 50 % get a pick and a decent prospect and maybe send him to Florida if they are doing good (if they have bob / panarin they should be on the bubble at least ) .

 

[topshelf15]

Sorry WPG,we tried to tell the most ardent of you....Once players get this close to being a UFA your leverage is gone....

 

[topshelf15]

A few thoughts:

1. Why is the value in this trade any different from the value in like the last 10 comparable trades we have seen? The Karlsson trade. The McDonagh trade. Skinner's trade and all those moves.

People need to realize that with all teams nowadays seeing their future being limited by the cap, contribution/cap hit will be what matters. A guy one year removed from UFA will at best have a contribution/cap hit that is somewhat shady.

And its certainly the same with the possible PK Subban trade.

2. I think people really are underrating Neal Pionk. Look, many just don't understand the impact of usage on metrics. Some math professor said that it doesn't matter as much as some think, and it fits the narrative of people that want to be able to be hockey experts without knowing anything about the game. Quite frankly. Facts are that there are a ton of noise impacting that observation. Especially on the Rangers, the numbers defenders get when getting the toughest shifts are 180' different from what they get when they get the easiest shifts.

A bunch of ranger defenders have under two different NHL coaches failed to step up and take on the toughest defensive assignments. Neal Pionk, 5'11 PMD rookie didn't, and have mostly been the one that have gone up against the best of the East night in and night out. Those shift after shift after shift against AO, Crosby, Malkin, Kucherov and co wears on you.

Pionk is down right fantastic at staying with his guy and taking away space and time defensively. When he gets the puck he has very good poise with it, and can get out of pressure.

However, he has one issue. He hasn't been able to value situations and just make the quick out-let pass when he should be able to do that, or hang on to the puck when there is no pass to make. As a result the opponents get to set-up and it has an impact looking at bigger sample size for sure. It should definitely be fixable, and a lot of it could straight itself out if he can get a little easier minutes.

3. The 20 is not a bad pick, albeit I think that this draft is kind of limited to a top 13-14 and then peaking with a great 30-50, but someone good shall fall to 20.

One scenario is that Trouba gets a 1 year deal and then is moved as a rental at the deadline. The pick NYR gets then would probably be a whole notch worse (with the difference between 20 and 27-31 basically being as big as the difference between a 1st and a 2nd).

Ottawa got 7 pieces back for EK,2 1st rounders 2 2nd,s,two experienced rfa players in Tierny and Demelo and a prospect in Balcers....What WPG got back in return isnt even in the same ballpark

 

[BB88]

Well I guess this ends the question does him refusing to re-sign with Winnipeg lower his value.

Lot of people suggested it would, and some should lower the expectations.

This Jets team is getting destroyed fast.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Trouba was gone anyways.

 

[Stasis]

People will be equally disgusted when they find out how much money Trouba is looking for. IIRC on a long-term deal he wanted 8M last year, and that was with 79.5M cap. What is he going to ask next summer, when the cap is like 5-6M more than that and he’s got all the leverage ? I think his asking price will probably start at 10, pretty easily actually.

I basically knew he was done as a Jet last summer when a reporter asked about cashing in, and Trouba just chuckled and said that’s what he’s been trying to do for couple years now.

Maybe he’ll come down on his demands for the right destination but you would think the Jets let him negotiate a contract if they thought that’s the case and he just doesn’t want to sign in Winnipeg. But the fact that they didn’t is probably a good indication of them knowing negotiating with Trouba right know doesn’t increase his value.

Basically we were talking about a 1 year rental despite him being an RFA. So obviously the price wasn’t going to be ideal.

There’s an argument to be made that the Jets would’ve been better off with Trouba for 1 year, however there’s a few things that make it not desirable. Distraction is one thing, as well as not having a 1st for 2 years in a row. Also there’s some slight cap room to be gained (probably) compared to Myers and they need all they can get as keeping their forwards will be tough.

Sucks but it is what it is.

Whether he chooses to re-sign or not will be interesting to see. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a team like NYI swoop in in the end. They’re much closer to being consistently good than the Rangers, who are icing 2 established top 6 forwards for next season barring any further moves (maybe 3 if you count Buchnevich who will get the ice time to put together a more consistent season). Trouba isn’t going to make the Rangers good for next year. It’s very possible he’s traded at the TDL to salvage these assets they gave up, i doubt the re-building Rangers are going to be waiting around for the summer unless they feel confident about their chances to keep him.

And if he does choose to stay, and the Rangers in the end got a good defenseman for cheap, at least it's a team that the Jets could care less about in terms of competition for a while.

You make valid points but I'm pretty confident in saying the Rangers would never have made this move if they weren't absolutely (or close enough) convinced they were signing him for the longer term. That's not our MO and never has been. I know we weren't allowed to speak to him, but there's something more to this. They've made UFA mistakes for many years in the past, sure, but this isn't the type of FO to give up anything for someone they don't want and can't sign long term. I'd be very very shocked if he walks.

Somewhere, somehow, people found out he wanted to be in NY, and now he is. Having the rumor of Isles, Debs and Rangers chasing him (even from Brooks) indicates his location preference. We'll overpay a bit, I'm sure of that. But we didn't overpay to acquire him and that's great. Our D corps is a mix of out of prime aging vets and raw rookies. Skjei is our best D and he didn't have a great season. Trouba is instantly our top RD (top D period, really). Is he ready for that? For a 2nd year coach who's priming a team filled with guys who are almost all younger than Trouba? Will he be a locker room cancer, or was that just in the 'Peg? Those are the questions we need to be asking. And we'll find out this season.

This rebuild goes a hell of a lot quicker with the right moves, and this is a good move. We just proved we were serious about it and enhanced our position to acquire another player or two if that's the desire. A lot of players want to be in NY. One or two more moves, rookies gaining experience, new guys coming in... we're not behind the Debs and potentially pretty close to the Isles in terms of potential. If he wanted to be in NYC as a part of an emerging team that has a lot of young talent with a new mentality and operations team that are all in but thus far retooling smartly? He's got it. He wants to cash in? Sure he does. And he will. Maybe as a UFA he'd get a bit more but I really don't see us just letting him walk. He's part of their plan now and we'll pay him. We'll see how the rest unfolds, I'm thrilled we got him for cheap and are addressing our D issues but I'm always leery of paying D too much since it's never worked for us thus far.

If he gets a truckload we'll be seeing a lot of happy Debs, Isles, and Peg fans.