Proposal: NYR-EDM immediate gain for potential upside

soothsayer

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Oct 27, 2009
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Oilers could have had D'Angelo for free... Why are they now giving up assets for him? (If it's to get rid of Neal, then the deal is much smaller--like, a conditional or 6th round pick with Neal. And that's the end of it.)

Edit: Essentially, this looks to me like
1.) D'Angelo for Neal + 4th
2.) Buchnevich for Broberg + Holloway + Koekkoek + 3rd.
Oof
 
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bernmeister

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Jun 11, 2010
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Oilers could have had D'Angelo for free... Why are they now giving up assets for him? (If it's to get rid of Neal, then the deal is much smaller--like, a conditional or 6th round pick with Neal. And that's the end of it.)

Edit: Essentially, this looks to me like
1.) D'Angelo for Neal + 4th
2.) Buchnevich for Broberg + Holloway + Koekkoek + 3rd.
Oof

Deangelo for free would = full cap hit.
They want the better and cheaper Deangelo to replace Neal on the roster.

Being objective, using math which does not lie, Neal has a whole yr more at 5.7. That alone = a 2nd, and there is also the dif of 5.7 v. 4.8 =.9 on the other 2 years,

It is a fair but dif ? if, after hearing 2+ yrs of how desperately Oil wanna move Neal, we now suddenly hear, we can live w/him and buy him out.
Fair ? and EDM has full right to pivot back and go there, but there is no ? IF you decide to do Deangelo for Neal, what I referenced above is correct based on math.

Add is required for Buch to get Broberg despite proven vs potential aspect, but balance of equation was reasonable.
Of course, what was not taken into account and prior unknown by OP is how bad Klefbom is injured. That is legit basis to big time enhance value of Broberg, which I noted.
 

SupremeTeam16

5-14-6-1
May 31, 2013
8,175
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This is so awful for the Oilers. Like really, truly terrible and not thought out from their side at all.

ADA is a head case that they could of had for free if they wanted that trouble in their room. Talented no doubt but another defender who doesn’t defend well and who comes along with off ice issues so bad the Rangers actually tried giving him away.

I’m a big fan of Buchnevich but not at the cost of any of our top 3 prospects or a 1st and Neals buyout is not bad at all at 1.9M so paying an arm and a leg to get out from under him would be foolish.


Brutal for the Oilers.
 

McVespa99

Registered User
May 13, 2007
5,949
2,707
NYR
W Buchnevich 3.25 at half = 1.625 expiring w/rfa + D Deangelo 4.8 x 2
+ BUF 2021 3rd + TOR 2021 4th
total cap 6.425
for

EDM
Broberg 984,167 elc x 3 + Koekkoek 850,000 expiring ufa + Neal 5.7 x 3 then ufa
+ EITHER
rights to Dylan Holloway (2020 draft mid first, unsigned, no cap hit)
OR
Oilers 2022 and 2023 2nd round picks
total cap 7.534,167

cap dif is [7.534,167 - 6.425] = 1.109,167 instant cap savings to EDM

comment on value:
the extra year on Neal at 5.7 commands a full 2nd, pushing a first given the Marleau/Staal standard, 6m and over = 1st, 5 short of 6 = 2nd, etc.
that is one 2nd
Oil do not have a 3rd or 5th and get a good 3rd and a 4th, plus they are getting
half on Buchnevich,
dif on Neal two years vs Deangelo two years
all of those combine to = at least the other 2nd
OR Holloway for both 2nds
{whether Holloway or the two 2nds, either path = not immediately useful assets, i.e., = delayed not instant gratification as to their usefulness which benefits Oil}

--------------------
Analysis/check boxes:
Oil:
PROS
- $ wise, want to dump Neal, pref at full pop. check
Since getting rid of Lucic there has been an extended process of removing this salary or its successor; big win to move added year at more $
- want upgrade at RD check
Deangelo carries a risk factor, but even should it b'c necessary, due to age he is a cheap buyout; but as to performance he was like 3rd best scoring D last yr. That is not everything but it is not nothing, either.
Deangelo will be playing to justify being kept in NHL, it is not a given but a decent bet he will try to avoid something that eliminates that.
- production wise, getting Buch, retained no less, is a top 6/first line W add check
Buch is young and will make the cut for the exp dr
Deangelo also mid 20s and EDM has flexibility to protect or expose in exp dr
- CF says EDM has zero cap space so 1m+ is signif

CONS
- futures
From a standpoint of the immediate roster, Broberg is not a loss as he is not with the big club atm.
Also, Oil have committed to Klefbom + Nurse, and in cap tight environment of next 2 yrs, taker for either at current salary is uphill w/o retention. So immediate sacrifice does not have instant consequence. However, longer term this is repurposing of a top 10 pick, and Oil will have to weigh how much going all in win now vs. build as you go. Not a prob w/sufficient drafting/trading/signings.

Picks vs. Holloway
Holloway not even signed yet, and projects as a W not a C. Buch is proven instant help.
__________________________

Rangers
overall
- $ wise, want to dump Deangelo, pref at full pop. check
It is a major concession to take back not just salary but a larger salary.
However, repurposing of player value surrendered for potential blue chip stud = worthwhile

- if Neal bought out he will cost more than Deangelo, but that is only $, and NY can/should go there IF there is enough in assets returned. Neal will stay on the taxi squad, on merit, and NY will see if they can send Neal to SEA as its exp dr selection for a couple of prospects in follow up trade super cheap.

- Either way Neal is not a big deal if repurposing player value on Deangelo and esp Buch is achieved into futures, which facilitates we get to a core of emerging younger talent and streamlines mgmt of cap going forward.

- NY has enough Fs to absorb loss of Buch short term, w/Kratsov here as early as this yr and Barron strong possible to also join next season.
No to the fallacy of keep Buch until those other guys are here.
Make a deal now when a deal is most opportune and give kids mo mins.

- if we get Holloway it is a crapshoot but he could be a speed replacement for Kreider in 4 yrs
otherwise two 2nds works.

- want upgrade at LD check
how good Broberg will/will not be is unclear. However, the hope is he could maybe turn into another K'Andre Miller

- want room for Nils L, check

- better prepare for exp dr
Buchnevich + Deangelo [if protected] fit nicely in EDM exp dr picture.
But taking them off NY roster is a plus for Rangers. Broberg is exempt, happy to expose Neal, get an extra protection slot for Hajek on D and a deserving F

CONS
- none significant, just have to absorb Neal which is a prob short term, but not insurmountable.

--------
possible follow up is something around
Koekkoek 850,000 to FL
for
Juulsen 700k
minor LD for RD complementary swap/stopgap


have at it, and play nice....


Thats a lot of typing to try to convince Oilers fans they somehow dont get abused in this deal. Which they do. I wouldnt touch Deangelo. At this point he has strong negative value. Would be happy to get Buch but not at the cost you have in this deal.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
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Thats a lot of typing to try to convince Oilers fans they somehow dont get abused in this deal. Which they do. I wouldnt touch Deangelo. At this point he has strong negative value. Would be happy to get Buch but not at the cost you have in this deal.

I get that completely.
Disagree to extent financially buying Deangelo out on the cheap [which is a fallback position if you don't want to see what production he can offer] is still useful, and worthwhile.

Whether or not that is more or less useful compared to other scenarios for the potentially acquiring team is a fair ? and another story...

Of course, the idea here was $ wise swapping Deangelo for Neal and paying Rangers for that benefit.
Oil has changed its tune on Neal, which is fine, but that was the idea.
 

Oil Spill

Net Detective
Jan 21, 2013
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Holloway isn’t shredding the ncaa. He’s a second liner on a pretty good team where he’s scored a handful of goals in his sophomore year.
Despite missing half of the Badgers games he's got a ppg close to 2 and was just nominated for the Hobey Baker. Seems like he's shredding this year.
 

Synergy27

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Apr 27, 2004
13,340
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Washington, D.C.
Buchnevich is an effective player, and is still relatively young. The Rangers should keep him around, unless they are trading him for a better player.
The Deangelo situation resolving itself means the Rangers will likely now be able to keep Buchnevich. They’d prefer not to deal him but would have had to due to cap constraints and organizational depth on the wing. Deangelo out opens up some cash and Buch being their best all around forward is reversing what seemed like an inevitability just a couple of months ago.
 

Digitalbooya

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Holloway isn’t shredding the ncaa. He’s a second liner on a pretty good team where he’s scored a handful of goals in his sophomore year.
Holloway is the best player on Wisconsin. Point per game wise, he’s 1st in the NCAA amongst those who have played at least 10 games at 1.92. Ahead of Cole Caufield’s 1.65ppg. Idk what he has to do for you to consider it as “shredding the ncaa.”
 
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howkie

Registered User
Dec 13, 2014
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Im pretty sure no candien team will trade with a US based team, since it is 14 days of, you know... Covid related stuff.
Finally PLD can play.
 

Mtler in Toronto

Registered User
Mar 1, 2012
101
75
Toronto
NYR
W Buchnevich 3.25 at half = 1.625 expiring w/rfa + D Deangelo 4.8 x 2
+ BUF 2021 3rd + TOR 2021 4th
total cap 6.425
for


EDM
Broberg 984,167 elc x 3 + Koekkoek 850,000 expiring ufa + Neal 5.7 x 3 then ufa
+ EITHER
rights to Dylan Holloway (2020 draft mid first, unsigned, no cap hit)
OR
Oilers 2022 and 2023 2nd round picks
total cap 7.534,167

cap dif is [7.534,167 - 6.425] = 1.109,167 instant cap savings to EDM

comment on value:
the extra year on Neal at 5.7 commands a full 2nd, pushing a first given the Marleau/Staal standard, 6m and over = 1st, 5 short of 6 = 2nd, etc.
that is one 2nd
Oil do not have a 3rd or 5th and get a good 3rd and a 4th, plus they are getting
half on Buchnevich,
dif on Neal two years vs Deangelo two years
all of those combine to = at least the other 2nd
OR Holloway for both 2nds
{whether Holloway or the two 2nds, either path = not immediately useful assets, i.e., = delayed not instant gratification as to their usefulness which benefits Oil}

--------------------
Analysis/check boxes:
Oil:
PROS
- $ wise, want to dump Neal, pref at full pop. check
Since getting rid of Lucic there has been an extended process of removing this salary or its successor; big win to move added year at more $
- want upgrade at RD check
Deangelo carries a risk factor, but even should it b'c necessary, due to age he is a cheap buyout; but as to performance he was like 3rd best scoring D last yr. That is not everything but it is not nothing, either.
Deangelo will be playing to justify being kept in NHL, it is not a given but a decent bet he will try to avoid something that eliminates that.
- production wise, getting Buch, retained no less, is a top 6/first line W add check
Buch is young and will make the cut for the exp dr
Deangelo also mid 20s and EDM has flexibility to protect or expose in exp dr
- CF says EDM has zero cap space so 1m+ is signif

CONS
- futures
From a standpoint of the immediate roster, Broberg is not a loss as he is not with the big club atm.
Also, Oil have committed to Klefbom + Nurse, and in cap tight environment of next 2 yrs, taker for either at current salary is uphill w/o retention. So immediate sacrifice does not have instant consequence. However, longer term this is repurposing of a top 10 pick, and Oil will have to weigh how much going all in win now vs. build as you go. Not a prob w/sufficient drafting/trading/signings.

Picks vs. Holloway
Holloway not even signed yet, and projects as a W not a C. Buch is proven instant help.
__________________________

Rangers
overall
- $ wise, want to dump Deangelo, pref at full pop. check
It is a major concession to take back not just salary but a larger salary.
However, repurposing of player value surrendered for potential blue chip stud = worthwhile

- if Neal bought out he will cost more than Deangelo, but that is only $, and NY can/should go there IF there is enough in assets returned. Neal will stay on the taxi squad, on merit, and NY will see if they can send Neal to SEA as its exp dr selection for a couple of prospects in follow up trade super cheap.

- Either way Neal is not a big deal if repurposing player value on Deangelo and esp Buch is achieved into futures, which facilitates we get to a core of emerging younger talent and streamlines mgmt of cap going forward.

- NY has enough Fs to absorb loss of Buch short term, w/Kratsov here as early as this yr and Barron strong possible to also join next season.
No to the fallacy of keep Buch until those other guys are here.
Make a deal now when a deal is most opportune and give kids mo mins.

- if we get Holloway it is a crapshoot but he could be a speed replacement for Kreider in 4 yrs
otherwise two 2nds works.

- want upgrade at LD check
how good Broberg will/will not be is unclear. However, the hope is he could maybe turn into another K'Andre Miller

- want room for Nils L, check

- better prepare for exp dr
Buchnevich + Deangelo [if protected] fit nicely in EDM exp dr picture.
But taking them off NY roster is a plus for Rangers. Broberg is exempt, happy to expose Neal, get an extra protection slot for Hajek on D and a deserving F

CONS
- none significant, just have to absorb Neal which is a prob short term, but not insurmountable.

--------
possible follow up is something around
Koekkoek 850,000 to FL
for
Juulsen 700k
minor LD for RD complementary swap/stopgap


have at it, and play nice....

Can't wait to read Chapter 2 of your proposal.....
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
27,788
3,773
Da Big Apple
The Deangelo situation resolving itself means the Rangers will likely now be able to keep Buchnevich. They’d prefer not to deal him but would have had to due to cap constraints and organizational depth on the wing. Deangelo out opens up some cash and Buch being their best all around forward is reversing what seemed like an inevitability just a couple of months ago.

unless he takes a lot less than he can make elsewhere as UFA, which is very unlikely, he may indeed extend stay short term but will go and not be here long term.
In order for that not to happen, all of the following would have to occur:
LaF AND Kakko = bust = no big raise
Zib dealt/no signif raise
Kreider dealt

guys like Fox, KAM, etc getting big raises, other elcs=>rfas = $$$

can't be helped.
 

Digitalbooya

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Wisconsin
How has K'Andre Miller been? I was pretty shocked to hear he made the NHL team after having a pretty bad sophomore year at Wisconsin (personal opinion from watching him in all games). He was an absolute beast his freshman year, got injured, and then didn't really look the same the following season. Hope things are looking up for him.
 
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Waivers

Registered User
Sep 27, 2013
1,659
898
NY
How has K'Andre Miller been? I was pretty shocked to hear he made the NHL team after having a pretty bad sophomore year at Wisconsin (personal opinion from watching him in all games). He was an absolute beast his freshman year, got injured, and then didn't really look the same the following season. Hope things are looking up for him.

Very pleased with what I’m seeing so far for his first professional season. He has a Top 4 role already.
 
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ElPrimeTime

Registered User
Dec 23, 2014
922
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Edmonton, AB
Seems like once a month, I have to post "No Broberg for you Bern".

But in all seriousness, the Oilers do not need an "offensive" defensemen at all. The problem is that can't defend and stop anything. The fact the Oilers end up with RFA Buch as the prize for Broberg is straight up atrocious. Your concept of getting cap relief by swapping Neal and ADA is pretty much moot when you consider either having to pay Buch more at the end of the season and/or letting him walk while giving away prime assets.

Once again... NO BROBERG FOR YOU.
 
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McVespa99

Registered User
May 13, 2007
5,949
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Holloway isn’t shredding the ncaa. He’s a second liner on a pretty good team where he’s scored a handful of goals in his sophomore year.

Approx 2ppg as a Sophomore seems pretty much like shredding to me.....
 
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Cup or Bust

Registered User
Oct 17, 2017
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The Oilers do need to improve their forward depth, but not at the expense of trading young d-men with potential.
 

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