Proposal: NYR-EDM immediate gain for potential upside

[SRHRangers]

Stop! You're not getting Igor lol.

Should look into Georgie after what I saw on Saturday night though. Koskinen is a diaster.

 

[bucks_oil]

NYR
W Buchnevich 3.25 at half = 1.625 expiring w/rfa + D Deangelo 4.8 x 2
+ BUF 2021 3rd + TOR 2021 4th
total cap 6.425
for

EDM
Broberg 984,167 elc x 3 + Koekkoek 850,000 expiring ufa + Neal 5.7 x 3 then ufa
+ EITHER
rights to Dylan Holloway (2020 draft mid first, unsigned, no cap hit)
OR
Oilers 2022 and 2023 2nd round picks
total cap 7.534,167

cap dif is [7.534,167 - 6.425] = 1.109,167 instant cap savings to EDM

comment on value:
the extra year on Neal at 5.7 commands a full 2nd, pushing a first given the Marleau/Staal standard, 6m and over = 1st, 5 short of 6 = 2nd, etc.
that is one 2nd
Oil do not have a 3rd or 5th and get a good 3rd and a 4th, plus they are getting
half on Buchnevich,
dif on Neal two years vs Deangelo two years
all of those combine to = at least the other 2nd
OR Holloway for both 2nds
{whether Holloway or the two 2nds, either path = not immediately useful assets, i.e., = delayed not instant gratification as to their usefulness which benefits Oil}

--------------------
Analysis/check boxes:
Oil:
PROS
- $ wise, want to dump Neal, pref at full pop. check
Since getting rid of Lucic there has been an extended process of removing this salary or its successor; big win to move added year at more $
- want upgrade at RD check
Deangelo carries a risk factor, but even should it b'c necessary, due to age he is a cheap buyout; but as to performance he was like 3rd best scoring D last yr. That is not everything but it is not nothing, either.
Deangelo will be playing to justify being kept in NHL, it is not a given but a decent bet he will try to avoid something that eliminates that.
- production wise, getting Buch, retained no less, is a top 6/first line W add check
Buch is young and will make the cut for the exp dr
Deangelo also mid 20s and EDM has flexibility to protect or expose in exp dr
- CF says EDM has zero cap space so 1m+ is signif

CONS
- futures
From a standpoint of the immediate roster, Broberg is not a loss as he is not with the big club atm.
Also, Oil have committed to Klefbom + Nurse, and in cap tight environment of next 2 yrs, taker for either at current salary is uphill w/o retention. So immediate sacrifice does not have instant consequence. However, longer term this is repurposing of a top 10 pick, and Oil will have to weigh how much going all in win now vs. build as you go. Not a prob w/sufficient drafting/trading/signings.

Picks vs. Holloway
Holloway not even signed yet, and projects as a W not a C. Buch is proven instant help.
__________________________

Rangers
overall
- $ wise, want to dump Deangelo, pref at full pop. check
It is a major concession to take back not just salary but a larger salary.
However, repurposing of player value surrendered for potential blue chip stud = worthwhile

- if Neal bought out he will cost more than Deangelo, but that is only $, and NY can/should go there IF there is enough in assets returned. Neal will stay on the taxi squad, on merit, and NY will see if they can send Neal to SEA as its exp dr selection for a couple of prospects in follow up trade super cheap.

- Either way Neal is not a big deal if repurposing player value on Deangelo and esp Buch is achieved into futures, which facilitates we get to a core of emerging younger talent and streamlines mgmt of cap going forward.

- NY has enough Fs to absorb loss of Buch short term, w/Kratsov here as early as this yr and Barron strong possible to also join next season.
No to the fallacy of keep Buch until those other guys are here.
Make a deal now when a deal is most opportune and give kids mo mins.

- if we get Holloway it is a crapshoot but he could be a speed replacement for Kreider in 4 yrs
otherwise two 2nds works.

- want upgrade at LD check
how good Broberg will/will not be is unclear. However, the hope is he could maybe turn into another K'Andre Miller

- want room for Nils L, check

- better prepare for exp dr
Buchnevich + Deangelo [if protected] fit nicely in EDM exp dr picture.
But taking them off NY roster is a plus for Rangers. Broberg is exempt, happy to expose Neal, get an extra protection slot for Hajek on D and a deserving F

CONS
- none significant, just have to absorb Neal which is a prob short term, but not insurmountable.

--------
possible follow up is something around
Koekkoek 850,000 to FL
for
Juulsen 700k
minor LD for RD complementary swap/stopgap


have at it, and play nice....

Bern... sometimes your creativity is an interesting read. This is not one of those times.

My feedback entirely from (my view of) EDM perspective:
1) Broberg would only be on the table in a package for a true top pairing two-way D (we'd be adding of course) or a solid two-way #3C that can score 40 points and defends well (perhaps we add there too, but it wouldn't be as much as above).

2) Zero interest in DeAngelo, he's not an upgrade on Barrie, Larsson is our most reliable stay-at-home guy, and we have Bouchard & Bear that we are very high on and want to give minutes to. Not to mention our dressing room needs positive energy, and he doesn't bring that.

3) Would love to turf Neal... if you are willing to take him on, let's talk about that and only that.

4) Buch would be a great add to our team. We could talk about that in isolation... but he's not worth Broberg and I think Oil like what they have in Holloway. We could talk about picks, or potentially add Neal and work on a simpler package.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Stop! You're not getting Igor lol.

Should look into Georgie after what I saw on Saturday night though. Koskinen is a diaster.

"Georgie" is rocking an .886 and got lit up by the Sabres and Devils.

If small sample sizes are what matters, I'll toss you a conditional 2022 7th for Georgiev.

 

[Deplorable Lenny]

NYR
W Buchnevich 3.25 at half = 1.625 expiring w/rfa + D Deangelo 4.8 x 2
+ BUF 2021 3rd + TOR 2021 4th
total cap 6.425
for

EDM
Broberg 984,167 elc x 3 + Koekkoek 850,000 expiring ufa + Neal 5.7 x 3 then ufa
+ EITHER
rights to Dylan Holloway (2020 draft mid first, unsigned, no cap hit)
OR
Oilers 2022 and 2023 2nd round picks
total cap 7.534,167

cap dif is [7.534,167 - 6.425] = 1.109,167 instant cap savings to EDM

comment on value:
the extra year on Neal at 5.7 commands a full 2nd, pushing a first given the Marleau/Staal standard, 6m and over = 1st, 5 short of 6 = 2nd, etc.
that is one 2nd
Oil do not have a 3rd or 5th and get a good 3rd and a 4th, plus they are getting
half on Buchnevich,
dif on Neal two years vs Deangelo two years
all of those combine to = at least the other 2nd
OR Holloway for both 2nds
{whether Holloway or the two 2nds, either path = not immediately useful assets, i.e., = delayed not instant gratification as to their usefulness which benefits Oil}

--------------------
Analysis/check boxes:
Oil:
PROS
- $ wise, want to dump Neal, pref at full pop. check
Since getting rid of Lucic there has been an extended process of removing this salary or its successor; big win to move added year at more $
- want upgrade at RD check
Deangelo carries a risk factor, but even should it b'c necessary, due to age he is a cheap buyout; but as to performance he was like 3rd best scoring D last yr. That is not everything but it is not nothing, either.
Deangelo will be playing to justify being kept in NHL, it is not a given but a decent bet he will try to avoid something that eliminates that.
- production wise, getting Buch, retained no less, is a top 6/first line W add check
Buch is young and will make the cut for the exp dr
Deangelo also mid 20s and EDM has flexibility to protect or expose in exp dr
- CF says EDM has zero cap space so 1m+ is signif

CONS
- futures
From a standpoint of the immediate roster, Broberg is not a loss as he is not with the big club atm.
Also, Oil have committed to Klefbom + Nurse, and in cap tight environment of next 2 yrs, taker for either at current salary is uphill w/o retention. So immediate sacrifice does not have instant consequence. However, longer term this is repurposing of a top 10 pick, and Oil will have to weigh how much going all in win now vs. build as you go. Not a prob w/sufficient drafting/trading/signings.

Picks vs. Holloway
Holloway not even signed yet, and projects as a W not a C. Buch is proven instant help.
__________________________

Rangers
overall
- $ wise, want to dump Deangelo, pref at full pop. check
It is a major concession to take back not just salary but a larger salary.
However, repurposing of player value surrendered for potential blue chip stud = worthwhile

- if Neal bought out he will cost more than Deangelo, but that is only $, and NY can/should go there IF there is enough in assets returned. Neal will stay on the taxi squad, on merit, and NY will see if they can send Neal to SEA as its exp dr selection for a couple of prospects in follow up trade super cheap.

- Either way Neal is not a big deal if repurposing player value on Deangelo and esp Buch is achieved into futures, which facilitates we get to a core of emerging younger talent and streamlines mgmt of cap going forward.

- NY has enough Fs to absorb loss of Buch short term, w/Kratsov here as early as this yr and Barron strong possible to also join next season.
No to the fallacy of keep Buch until those other guys are here.
Make a deal now when a deal is most opportune and give kids mo mins.

- if we get Holloway it is a crapshoot but he could be a speed replacement for Kreider in 4 yrs
otherwise two 2nds works.

- want upgrade at LD check
how good Broberg will/will not be is unclear. However, the hope is he could maybe turn into another K'Andre Miller

- want room for Nils L, check

- better prepare for exp dr
Buchnevich + Deangelo [if protected] fit nicely in EDM exp dr picture.
But taking them off NY roster is a plus for Rangers. Broberg is exempt, happy to expose Neal, get an extra protection slot for Hajek on D and a deserving F

CONS
- none significant, just have to absorb Neal which is a prob short term, but not insurmountable.

--------
possible follow up is something around
Koekkoek 850,000 to FL
for
Juulsen 700k
minor LD for RD complementary swap/stopgap


have at it, and play nice....

I thought you weren't allowed to make proposals anymore.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

buying Deangelo out on the cheap

The Rangers answer their own question.

 

[voxel]

Stop! You're not getting Igor lol.

Should look into Georgie after what I saw on Saturday night though. Koskinen is a diaster.

I think you misspelled Shesterkin.

Georgiev has the same Sv% as Kosko... lol

 

[zar]

NYR
W Buchnevich 3.25 at half = 1.625 expiring w/rfa + D Deangelo 4.8 x 2
+ BUF 2021 3rd + TOR 2021 4th
total cap 6.425
for

EDM
Broberg 984,167 elc x 3 + Koekkoek 850,000 expiring ufa + Neal 5.7 x 3 then ufa
+ EITHER
rights to Dylan Holloway (2020 draft mid first, unsigned, no cap hit)
OR
Oilers 2022 and 2023 2nd round picks
total cap 7.534,167

cap dif is [7.534,167 - 6.425] = 1.109,167 instant cap savings to EDM

comment on value:
the extra year on Neal at 5.7 commands a full 2nd, pushing a first given the Marleau/Staal standard, 6m and over = 1st, 5 short of 6 = 2nd, etc.
that is one 2nd
Oil do not have a 3rd or 5th and get a good 3rd and a 4th, plus they are getting
half on Buchnevich,
dif on Neal two years vs Deangelo two years
all of those combine to = at least the other 2nd
OR Holloway for both 2nds
{whether Holloway or the two 2nds, either path = not immediately useful assets, i.e., = delayed not instant gratification as to their usefulness which benefits Oil}

--------------------
Analysis/check boxes:
Oil:
PROS
- $ wise, want to dump Neal, pref at full pop. check
Since getting rid of Lucic there has been an extended process of removing this salary or its successor; big win to move added year at more $
- want upgrade at RD check
Deangelo carries a risk factor, but even should it b'c necessary, due to age he is a cheap buyout; but as to performance he was like 3rd best scoring D last yr. That is not everything but it is not nothing, either.
Deangelo will be playing to justify being kept in NHL, it is not a given but a decent bet he will try to avoid something that eliminates that.
- production wise, getting Buch, retained no less, is a top 6/first line W add check
Buch is young and will make the cut for the exp dr
Deangelo also mid 20s and EDM has flexibility to protect or expose in exp dr
- CF says EDM has zero cap space so 1m+ is signif

CONS
- futures
From a standpoint of the immediate roster, Broberg is not a loss as he is not with the big club atm.
Also, Oil have committed to Klefbom + Nurse, and in cap tight environment of next 2 yrs, taker for either at current salary is uphill w/o retention. So immediate sacrifice does not have instant consequence. However, longer term this is repurposing of a top 10 pick, and Oil will have to weigh how much going all in win now vs. build as you go. Not a prob w/sufficient drafting/trading/signings.

Picks vs. Holloway
Holloway not even signed yet, and projects as a W not a C. Buch is proven instant help.
__________________________

Rangers
overall
- $ wise, want to dump Deangelo, pref at full pop. check
It is a major concession to take back not just salary but a larger salary.
However, repurposing of player value surrendered for potential blue chip stud = worthwhile

- if Neal bought out he will cost more than Deangelo, but that is only $, and NY can/should go there IF there is enough in assets returned. Neal will stay on the taxi squad, on merit, and NY will see if they can send Neal to SEA as its exp dr selection for a couple of prospects in follow up trade super cheap.

- Either way Neal is not a big deal if repurposing player value on Deangelo and esp Buch is achieved into futures, which facilitates we get to a core of emerging younger talent and streamlines mgmt of cap going forward.

- NY has enough Fs to absorb loss of Buch short term, w/Kratsov here as early as this yr and Barron strong possible to also join next season.
No to the fallacy of keep Buch until those other guys are here.
Make a deal now when a deal is most opportune and give kids mo mins.

- if we get Holloway it is a crapshoot but he could be a speed replacement for Kreider in 4 yrs
otherwise two 2nds works.

- want upgrade at LD check
how good Broberg will/will not be is unclear. However, the hope is he could maybe turn into another K'Andre Miller

- want room for Nils L, check

- better prepare for exp dr
Buchnevich + Deangelo [if protected] fit nicely in EDM exp dr picture.
But taking them off NY roster is a plus for Rangers. Broberg is exempt, happy to expose Neal, get an extra protection slot for Hajek on D and a deserving F

CONS
- none significant, just have to absorb Neal which is a prob short term, but not insurmountable.

--------
possible follow up is something around
Koekkoek 850,000 to FL
for
Juulsen 700k
minor LD for RD complementary swap/stopgap


have at it, and play nice....

You always make these offers with one goal... to steal Broberg. Ain’t happening.

Ask yourself, if the intent was to make the Oilers better today, how much better off are they with a 2W and 3rd pairing D that you offered.

ADA, holds very little value - as evidenced by him clearing waivers. Buchnevich holds some value as a rental to the Oilers but not worth anywhere close to us gifting the Rangers both Broberg and Holloway. You think Buchnevich, a Russian hockey player who has enjoyed playing in the Big Apple is going to be thrilled about playing in Edmonton and negotiating a fair long term contract? It would be a 1 year contract squabble then out.

This deal is a definite ‘no’.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

thanks
feel free to embellish

Writing paragraphs isnt a substitute for putting actual thought into what you're doing. Why should he waste time elaborating and embellishing when you didn't put time into informing yourself before your latest "look at me" trade

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

that was an overly verbose trade offer that I was able to confidently stop reading knowing how this made sense only for NYR after the first line for the EDM players being traded included "Broberg"

I was like, yep, this is a dumpster fire offer

 

[Bouboumaster]

DeAngelo is so f***ing toxic as an asset, that NYR are ready to sit him the f*** down even tho he's a 50 something PMD.

Without even looking at the offer, the don't need that shit. Even tho on paper would help a lot, you can't take the risk that a f***ing clown like this dude somehow antagonize Draisatl, or worst, McJesus.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Can't wait to read Chapter 2 of your proposal.....

I need the coles notes versions of all bern proposals

 

[Dan Kelly]

Stop! You're not getting Igor lol.

Should look into Georgie after what I saw on Saturday night though.

funny how there's no way the Oilers are getting Igor but the Oilers are to give up their 2 best prospects just like that for a good but not great forward, a d-man they don't need and is a locker room cancer and some cap relief ?? i know people are pissed at the Oilers for having the games 2 best young players and never want to see them win, EVER, so hence all of these really bad proposals, but c'mon guys !!

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

DeAngelo is so f***ing toxic as an asset, that NYR are ready to sit him the f*** down even tho he's a 50 something PMD.

Without even looking at the offer, the don't need that shit. Even tho on paper would help a lot, you can't take the risk that a f***ing clown like this dude somehow antagonize Draisatl, or worst, McJesus.

I think if TDA gets moved at this point it looks it would be a paper move to move a bad contract but no real intention to play him but use his contract flexibility. if you are another GM actually wanting to ice him I think it would be done by now. you could have either A) already had him for free or B) acquired him for almost nothing and have him already contributing (even if for a freed up contract slot or slightly above ELC value contract)

teams could take a flier on him, let him play 3/4 a season to see what he does and still decide to cut ties with him for a 1/3 buyout. he looks likes he's being blackballed by the league like ray rice via NFL and voynov with the kings. there must be information not public to the press that is being shared among the GMs

 

[Kupo]

Mod - Mods

Please, for all that Is holy and mighty in this world, kill this proposal.

Goddammit Bern.... I legit tried to give you the benefit of doubt and then you unleash this horseshit from your ass.

This is sooooooo bad man. There’s no defending you from this shit. Cmon bro.

 

[thadd]

If Edmonton actually believes there's a chance that Broberg turns into a top pairing d-man, they'd be dumb to make this trade.

 

[bernmeister]

Mod - Mods

Please, for all that Is holy and mighty in this world, kill this proposal.

Goddammit Bern.... I legit tried to give you the benefit of doubt and then you unleash this horseshit from your ass.

This is sooooooo bad man. There’s no defending you from this shit. Cmon bro.

I would rather take the pummeling and be a champion of free speech and have this thread ultimately die a natural death than see it closed.

I would rather see if we can civilly discuss our difs of op than talk over each other as is taking place to some extent here.

I get some of the criticism holds up.
But there is some hypocrisy there too.

For example,

There is

that was an overly verbose trade offer that I was able to confidently stop reading knowing how this made sense only for NYR after the first line for the EDM players being traded included "Broberg"

I was like, yep, this is a dumpster fire offer

okay. but then the same poster:

I think if TDA gets moved at this point it looks it would be a paper move to move a bad contract but no real intention to play him but use his contract flexibility. if you are another GM actually wanting to ice him I think it would be done by now. you could have either A) already had him for free or B) acquired him for almost nothing and have him already contributing (even if for a freed up contract slot or slightly above ELC value contract)

teams could take a flier on him, let him play 3/4 a season to see what he does and still decide to cut ties with him for a 1/3 buyout. he looks likes he's being blackballed by the league like ray rice via NFL and voynov with the kings. there must be information not public to the press that is being shared among the GMs

this ^ was specified by me as a fallback position, but the other side only wants to see what it wants to see, despite the fact the above exists.

Now as I said before the offer {as orig stated} was withdrawn, several pages ago.
That is not a basis to close the thread,
It is a basis to have a respectful post mortem and see if it can be reincarnated in some improved form, or not.

I did not yield to an unqualified onslaught.

Whether or not I sought too much, and by what measure, is a fair question but let's not be hypocrites, most of us are guilty of some level of such overreach.

I withdrew the offer b'c
1. after droning on for yrs how they would offer serious concession to lose Neal's contract, they would not go there now.
That's fine provided we recognize that in a vacuum Deangelo, b'c you can set him aside and not play him IF you really are forced to before buying him out for less, is a contract that is a more valuable asset.
Deangelo = huge talent upgrade comp to Neal if played
Deangelo = potential for nightmare off ice
the above 2 cancel out
and you are left with the contract

2. Broberg is still Broberg, and while no recognition was made to the fact that Oil got instant assets for futures, a new development has occurred of which I was not aware. That is, we know Klefbom is out, but few are aware that it is potentially career ending level of injury.
Under that circumstance, I agree value of Broberg as Klef replacement likely outweighs 99% of him being used in trade.


However, people gonna be their own way and see what they want.
No one acknowledged other assets to Oil, no one acknowledged 1m+ cap relief to Oil which is signif in immediate circumstances.

--------------
Mods - closing a thread, unless under exceptional circumstances, does not advance the status of a discussion board, or its members.

---------
@Kupo the offer to defend is appreciated.
bern is a big boy who can take it and dish it out, even if I tend to speak softly more often than not.
But thanks all the same.

 

[bernmeister]

If Edmonton actually believes there's a chance that Broberg turns into a top pairing d-man, they'd be dumb to make this trade.

I go you one better, as I said when I advised OFFER WITHDRAWN some pages ago.

If there is a real risk Klef will no longer play then dealing Broberg is a luxury EDM can't afford.

 

[VainGretzky]

Dump a bunch of rotting garbage then use another 20 posts trying to convince you it does not stink , WTG op

 

[TFHockey]

I go you one better, as I said when I advised OFFER WITHDRAWN some pages ago.

If there is a real risk Klef will no longer play then dealing Broberg is a luxury EDM can't afford.

I really believe that Klefbom is done. I hope I am wrong, but I think that is actually the case.

 

[Oil Spill]

I would rather take the pummeling and be a champion of free speech and have this thread ultimately die a natural death than see it closed.

I would rather see if we can civilly discuss our difs of op than talk over each other as is taking place to some extent here.

I get some of the criticism holds up.
But there is some hypocrisy there too.

For example,

There is


okay. but then the same poster:



this ^ was specified by me as a fallback position, but the other side only wants to see what it wants to see, despite the fact the above exists.

Now as I said before the offer {as orig stated} was withdrawn, several pages ago.
That is not a basis to close the thread,
It is a basis to have a respectful post mortem and see if it can be reincarnated in some improved form, or not.

I did not yield to an unqualified onslaught.

Whether or not I sought too much, and by what measure, is a fair question but let's not be hypocrites, most of us are guilty of some level of such overreach.

I withdrew the offer b'c
1. after droning on for yrs how they would offer serious concession to lose Neal's contract, they would not go there now.
That's fine provided we recognize that in a vacuum Deangelo, b'c you can set him aside and not play him IF you really are forced to before buying him out for less, is a contract that is a more valuable asset.
Deangelo = huge talent upgrade comp to Neal if played
Deangelo = potential for nightmare off ice
the above 2 cancel out
and you are left with the contract

2. Broberg is still Broberg, and while no recognition was made to the fact that Oil got instant assets for futures, a new development has occurred of which I was not aware. That is, we know Klefbom is out, but few are aware that it is potentially career ending level of injury.
Under that circumstance, I agree value of Broberg as Klef replacement likely outweighs 99% of him being used in trade.


However, people gonna be their own way and see what they want.
No one acknowledged other assets to Oil, no one acknowledged 1m+ cap relief to Oil which is signif in immediate circumstances.

--------------
Mods - closing a thread, unless under exceptional circumstances, does not advance the status of a discussion board, or its members.

---------
@Kupo the offer to defend is appreciated.
bern is a big boy who can take it and dish it out, even if I tend to speak softly more often than not.
But thanks all the same.

It's not that significant considering what's being given up.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

Salary dump moves, which is essentially how you're selling the benefit for Edmonton, don't usually include the attachment of a blue chip prospect.

All of the proposals I ever see from you include the other team's best prospects for lesser parts going back. When you have to write multiple, long winded paragraphs to try and defend your proposal, that usually means it's bad for the other team.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I would rather take the pummeling and be a champion of free speech and have this thread ultimately die a natural death than see it closed.

Dude, you aren't a champion of free speech. You are a champion of garbage one sided deals. Everyone knows you have a hard-on for Broberg. That's fine. But at least offer something worth our time for him.

 

[Machinehead]

The only thing better than bern trade proposals are people still getting mad at bern

 

[Machinehead]

Also, this is a very tame bern proposal btw

Not a single guy out of position, *only* two teams, not one instance of trading a guy you got back for something else before he even plays a game, a single-digit amount of draft picks moving. This is the warmup before bern gets in midseason form.

 

[The don godfather]

The rangers are a dumpster fire I think many of their players are not as good as advertised. Buyer beware . The only guy I would consider is kreider he has heart.