Proposal: NYR-EDM immediate gain for potential upside

[nzoilerfan]

WTH ?

1. Brobergs stock has only increased since going 8OA, has more value than say an 8th overall pick. He's developed really nicely and in his few games over here has looked like he'll be in the NHL sooner rather than later. Takes more than Buch to pry him away.

2. EDM isn't hard pressed to buy out Neal right away. we have a lot of flexibility coming up and his buyout isn't onerous. And cost could be lower to entice Seattle to draft him.

3. DeAngelo has seriously negative value right now. No teams front office is going near that cancer. No way. Not even for James Neal.

OVerall - too many moving parts and the value isn't quite there

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Using your logic, which I'm not even sure I agree about, you think it makes sense to add a negative value player because a player placed on the trade block has net zero value?

DeAngelo is the one with negative value.

 

[bernmeister]

Just a reminder.

This thread was created by me under certain expectations, some of which are opinion more open to debate, others which being less subjective are not.

One such expectation was that Broberg was likely available b'c it was thought Klefbom would return, if not this year then next. I was advised during this thread that, sorry to say, Klef may NOT return. That he will is such a risk that Broberg, who is not on the varsity at present, cannot be spared.

I evaluated this new info with an open mind, and I agree, the value of Broberg as a replacement for Klefbom exceeds his value in trade return, not just in this deal, but in most returns with a reasonable projection for a deal.

For that reason, I officially withdrew the offer.

So by all means, feel free to have open and constructive debate about other facets of this offer. Just play nice.

But since reality is Klefbom likely remaining down and out, there is no Broberg, and no Broberg = no deal.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

DeAngelo is the one with negative value.

The absolute worst case scenario DeAngelo is bought out for less than 1M. And there's obviously better case scenarios where he has value to the team or in a trade, so to suggest DeAngelo definitely has negative value and we should take a terrible contract really doesn't make any sense. The worst case scenario of buying out DeAngelo for less than 1M is better than Neal's contract. Other fans want to saddle us with their bad contracts. Thinking about this from the Rangers perspective though, what sense does that make? Clearly none.

Thats why fans need to get past this idea that they are going to throw their bad contracts at us for DeAngelo. If nothing of value is offered up, we'll buy him out at the end of the season for less than 1M. It's probably no more complicated than that. I think if it becomes any more complicated than that it's because the Rangers bring him back to play. That seems more likely than taking on a bad contract.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I'm not sure how a player can be negative value unless their play on the ice hurts the team.

The absolute worst case scenario DeAngelo is bought out for less than 1M. And there's obviously better case scenarios where he has value to the team or in a trade, so to suggest DeAngelo definitely has negative value and we should take a terrible contract really doesn't make any sense.

A player whose toxic in the locker room that he has to be away from the team is negative value. Neal is just grossly overpaid for a guy who can still be a specialist on the PP.

I think DeAngelo probably gets bought out, which is negative value since it's essentially a negative cap space.

 

[VA Oil]

The absolute worst case scenario DeAngelo is bought out for less than 1M. And there's obviously better case scenarios where he has value to the team or in a trade, so to suggest DeAngelo definitely has negative value and we should take a terrible contract really doesn't make any sense. The worst case scenario of buying out DeAngelo for less than 1M is better than Neal's contract. Other fans want to saddle us with their bad contracts. Thinking about this from the Rangers perspective though, what sense does that make? Clearly none.

Thats why fans need to get past this idea that they are going to throw their bad contracts at us for DeAngelo. If nothing of value is offered up, we'll buy him out at the end of the season for less than 1M. It's probably no more complicated than that. I think if it becomes any more complicated than that it's because the Rangers bring him back to play. That seems more likely than taking on a bad contract.

I didn't see anyone here wanting DeAngelo. So I don't know how fans are throwing bad contracts at NYR.

 

[habsfan44]

NYR
W Buchnevich 3.25 at half = 1.625 expiring w/rfa + D Deangelo 4.8 x 2
+ BUF 2021 3rd + TOR 2021 4th
total cap 6.425
for

EDM
Broberg 984,167 elc x 3 + Koekkoek 850,000 expiring ufa + Neal 5.7 x 3 then ufa
+ EITHER
rights to Dylan Holloway (2020 draft mid first, unsigned, no cap hit)
OR
Oilers 2022 and 2023 2nd round picks
total cap 7.534,167

cap dif is [7.534,167 - 6.425] = 1.109,167 instant cap savings to EDM

comment on value:
the extra year on Neal at 5.7 commands a full 2nd, pushing a first given the Marleau/Staal standard, 6m and over = 1st, 5 short of 6 = 2nd, etc.
that is one 2nd
Oil do not have a 3rd or 5th and get a good 3rd and a 4th, plus they are getting
half on Buchnevich,
dif on Neal two years vs Deangelo two years
all of those combine to = at least the other 2nd
OR Holloway for both 2nds
{whether Holloway or the two 2nds, either path = not immediately useful assets, i.e., = delayed not instant gratification as to their usefulness which benefits Oil}

--------------------
Analysis/check boxes:
Oil:
PROS
- $ wise, want to dump Neal, pref at full pop. check
Since getting rid of Lucic there has been an extended process of removing this salary or its successor; big win to move added year at more $
- want upgrade at RD check
Deangelo carries a risk factor, but even should it b'c necessary, due to age he is a cheap buyout; but as to performance he was like 3rd best scoring D last yr. That is not everything but it is not nothing, either.
Deangelo will be playing to justify being kept in NHL, it is not a given but a decent bet he will try to avoid something that eliminates that.
- production wise, getting Buch, retained no less, is a top 6/first line W add check
Buch is young and will make the cut for the exp dr
Deangelo also mid 20s and EDM has flexibility to protect or expose in exp dr
- CF says EDM has zero cap space so 1m+ is signif

CONS
- futures
From a standpoint of the immediate roster, Broberg is not a loss as he is not with the big club atm.
Also, Oil have committed to Klefbom + Nurse, and in cap tight environment of next 2 yrs, taker for either at current salary is uphill w/o retention. So immediate sacrifice does not have instant consequence. However, longer term this is repurposing of a top 10 pick, and Oil will have to weigh how much going all in win now vs. build as you go. Not a prob w/sufficient drafting/trading/signings.

Picks vs. Holloway
Holloway not even signed yet, and projects as a W not a C. Buch is proven instant help.
__________________________

Rangers
overall
- $ wise, want to dump Deangelo, pref at full pop. check
It is a major concession to take back not just salary but a larger salary.
However, repurposing of player value surrendered for potential blue chip stud = worthwhile

- if Neal bought out he will cost more than Deangelo, but that is only $, and NY can/should go there IF there is enough in assets returned. Neal will stay on the taxi squad, on merit, and NY will see if they can send Neal to SEA as its exp dr selection for a couple of prospects in follow up trade super cheap.

- Either way Neal is not a big deal if repurposing player value on Deangelo and esp Buch is achieved into futures, which facilitates we get to a core of emerging younger talent and streamlines mgmt of cap going forward.

- NY has enough Fs to absorb loss of Buch short term, w/Kratsov here as early as this yr and Barron strong possible to also join next season.
No to the fallacy of keep Buch until those other guys are here.
Make a deal now when a deal is most opportune and give kids mo mins.

- if we get Holloway it is a crapshoot but he could be a speed replacement for Kreider in 4 yrs
otherwise two 2nds works.

- want upgrade at LD check
how good Broberg will/will not be is unclear. However, the hope is he could maybe turn into another K'Andre Miller

- want room for Nils L, check

- better prepare for exp dr
Buchnevich + Deangelo [if protected] fit nicely in EDM exp dr picture.
But taking them off NY roster is a plus for Rangers. Broberg is exempt, happy to expose Neal, get an extra protection slot for Hajek on D and a deserving F

CONS
- none significant, just have to absorb Neal which is a prob short term, but not insurmountable.

--------
possible follow up is something around
Koekkoek 850,000 to FL
for
Juulsen 700k
minor LD for RD complementary swap/stopgap


have at it, and play nice....

So , pending RFA Buchnevich (retention = little value) & a 3rd. & 4th. round pick for Broberg , Koekkoek & two 2nd. round picks plus ridding yourself of a player that was never going to play for the Rangers again and would probably never play for the Oilers is only good for one team in this scenario . Oilers should and will give this one a resounding NO !

 

[bernmeister]

So , pending RFA Buchnevich (retention = little value) & a 3rd. & 4th. round pick for Broberg , Koekkoek & two 2nd. round picks plus ridding yourself of a player that was never going to play for the Rangers again and would probably never play for the Oilers is only good for one team in this scenario . Oilers should and will give this one a resounding NO !

1. pls read post 178 above
2. not doing full post mortem on this in its entirety/every facet.
As to the Deangelo part, that would have been as follows:

for EDM
-- Deangelo cheap contract buy out +
-- taking back Neal contract w/no cheap buyout mo $, term = +
-- ability of Deangelo to play and produce = likely +
-- x factor of Deangelo w/Oil not meshing in locker room = -

math is yr friend, it does not lie

Again, offer withdrawn due to Klef injury possibly career ending = Broberg not moved.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Broberg is not a top pairing guy but looking like he can be a solid 2nd pairing guy. Holloway looks set to be at top 6 forward. Both guys would be cap controlled. And we get back.. Buchnevich who will want a pay increase and basically replace Neal's cancer contract for DeAngelo's? AND you want picks? lol.

 

[bernmeister]

Broberg is not a top pairing guy but looking like he can be a solid 2nd pairing guy. Holloway looks set to be at top 6 forward. Both guys would be cap controlled. And we get back.. Buchnevich who will want a pay increase and basically replace Neal's cancer contract for DeAngelo's? AND you want picks? lol.

happy to vet this as a hypothetical; offer withdrawn as noted above.

You are generous in recognizing min thresholds for Broberg + Holloway. They are futures. Buch + Deangelo are immediate help.

You are unloading Neal's worse contract and Buch like 99% of league will have to take less $ next 2 yrs while covid is eliminated. He may want well north of 5 but he is gonna take closer to 4, short term, like it or not.
Also I think you squeeze out a tiny bit more control b'c he is ending but not yet finished rfa.

One 2nd was to cover Neal's contract exfra yr
others combo of factors incl that pick is later and NY sending BUF 3rd + OTT 4th THIS YR in deal.

There would have been room to negotiate on the value, but when you parse the details it is not as apart as you suggest.

 

[McAsuno]

Why the hell would the Oilers want a puke shit stain cancer in DeAngelo? Hard pass.

 

[goal1228]

NYR
W Buchnevich 3.25 at half = 1.625 expiring w/rfa + D Deangelo 4.8 x 2
+ BUF 2021 3rd + TOR 2021 4th
total cap 6.425
for



EDM
Broberg 984,167 elc x 3 + Koekkoek 850,000 expiring ufa + Neal 5.7 x 3 then ufa
+ EITHER
rights to Dylan Holloway (2020 draft mid first, unsigned, no cap hit)
OR
Oilers 2022 and 2023 2nd round picks
total cap 7.534,167

cap dif is [7.534,167 - 6.425] = 1.109,167 instant cap savings to EDM

comment on value:
the extra year on Neal at 5.7 commands a full 2nd, pushing a first given the Marleau/Staal standard, 6m and over = 1st, 5 short of 6 = 2nd, etc.
that is one 2nd
Oil do not have a 3rd or 5th and get a good 3rd and a 4th, plus they are getting
half on Buchnevich,
dif on Neal two years vs Deangelo two years
all of those combine to = at least the other 2nd
OR Holloway for both 2nds
{whether Holloway or the two 2nds, either path = not immediately useful assets, i.e., = delayed not instant gratification as to their usefulness which benefits Oil}

--------------------
Analysis/check boxes:
Oil:
PROS
- $ wise, want to dump Neal, pref at full pop. check
Since getting rid of Lucic there has been an extended process of removing this salary or its successor; big win to move added year at more $
- want upgrade at RD check
Deangelo carries a risk factor, but even should it b'c necessary, due to age he is a cheap buyout; but as to performance he was like 3rd best scoring D last yr. That is not everything but it is not nothing, either.
Deangelo will be playing to justify being kept in NHL, it is not a given but a decent bet he will try to avoid something that eliminates that.
- production wise, getting Buch, retained no less, is a top 6/first line W add check
Buch is young and will make the cut for the exp dr
Deangelo also mid 20s and EDM has flexibility to protect or expose in exp dr
- CF says EDM has zero cap space so 1m+ is signif

CONS
- futures
From a standpoint of the immediate roster, Broberg is not a loss as he is not with the big club atm.
Also, Oil have committed to Klefbom + Nurse, and in cap tight environment of next 2 yrs, taker for either at current salary is uphill w/o retention. So immediate sacrifice does not have instant consequence. However, longer term this is repurposing of a top 10 pick, and Oil will have to weigh how much going all in win now vs. build as you go. Not a prob w/sufficient drafting/trading/signings.

Picks vs. Holloway
Holloway not even signed yet, and projects as a W not a C. Buch is proven instant help.
__________________________

Rangers
overall
- $ wise, want to dump Deangelo, pref at full pop. check
It is a major concession to take back not just salary but a larger salary.
However, repurposing of player value surrendered for potential blue chip stud = worthwhile

- if Neal bought out he will cost more than Deangelo, but that is only $, and NY can/should go there IF there is enough in assets returned. Neal will stay on the taxi squad, on merit, and NY will see if they can send Neal to SEA as its exp dr selection for a couple of prospects in follow up trade super cheap.

- Either way Neal is not a big deal if repurposing player value on Deangelo and esp Buch is achieved into futures, which facilitates we get to a core of emerging younger talent and streamlines mgmt of cap going forward.

- NY has enough Fs to absorb loss of Buch short term, w/Kratsov here as early as this yr and Barron strong possible to also join next season.
No to the fallacy of keep Buch until those other guys are here.
Make a deal now when a deal is most opportune and give kids mo mins.

- if we get Holloway it is a crapshoot but he could be a speed replacement for Kreider in 4 yrs
otherwise two 2nds works.

- want upgrade at LD check
how good Broberg will/will not be is unclear. However, the hope is he could maybe turn into another K'Andre Miller

- want room for Nils L, check

- better prepare for exp dr
Buchnevich + Deangelo [if protected] fit nicely in EDM exp dr picture.
But taking them off NY roster is a plus for Rangers. Broberg is exempt, happy to expose Neal, get an extra protection slot for Hajek on D and a deserving F

CONS
- none significant, just have to absorb Neal which is a prob short term, but not insurmountable.

--------
possible follow up is something around
Koekkoek 850,000 to FL
for
Juulsen 700k
minor LD for RD complementary swap/stopgap


have at it, and play nice....

This is fair. I got your back Bern!

 

[OilerTitanFan]

Buch-a-what? Never heard of this player, and that bush-a-nevich player for who? Broberg or Holloway? hahaha.....I got a better deal, how about Kaako for Kassian while we're at it? A K for a K, sounds about right.

 

[Vipers248]

NYR
W Buchnevich 3.25 at half = 1.625 expiring w/rfa + D Deangelo 4.8 x 2
+ BUF 2021 3rd + TOR 2021 4th
total cap 6.425
for

EDM
Broberg 984,167 elc x 3 + Koekkoek 850,000 expiring ufa + Neal 5.7 x 3 then ufa
+ EITHER
rights to Dylan Holloway (2020 draft mid first, unsigned, no cap hit)
OR
Oilers 2022 and 2023 2nd round picks
total cap 7.534,167

cap dif is [7.534,167 - 6.425] = 1.109,167 instant cap savings to EDM

comment on value:
the extra year on Neal at 5.7 commands a full 2nd, pushing a first given the Marleau/Staal standard, 6m and over = 1st, 5 short of 6 = 2nd, etc.
that is one 2nd
Oil do not have a 3rd or 5th and get a good 3rd and a 4th, plus they are getting
half on Buchnevich,
dif on Neal two years vs Deangelo two years
all of those combine to = at least the other 2nd
OR Holloway for both 2nds
{whether Holloway or the two 2nds, either path = not immediately useful assets, i.e., = delayed not instant gratification as to their usefulness which benefits Oil}

--------------------
Analysis/check boxes:
Oil:
PROS
- $ wise, want to dump Neal, pref at full pop. check
Since getting rid of Lucic there has been an extended process of removing this salary or its successor; big win to move added year at more $
- want upgrade at RD check
Deangelo carries a risk factor, but even should it b'c necessary, due to age he is a cheap buyout; but as to performance he was like 3rd best scoring D last yr. That is not everything but it is not nothing, either.
Deangelo will be playing to justify being kept in NHL, it is not a given but a decent bet he will try to avoid something that eliminates that.
- production wise, getting Buch, retained no less, is a top 6/first line W add check
Buch is young and will make the cut for the exp dr
Deangelo also mid 20s and EDM has flexibility to protect or expose in exp dr
- CF says EDM has zero cap space so 1m+ is signif

CONS
- futures
From a standpoint of the immediate roster, Broberg is not a loss as he is not with the big club atm.
Also, Oil have committed to Klefbom + Nurse, and in cap tight environment of next 2 yrs, taker for either at current salary is uphill w/o retention. So immediate sacrifice does not have instant consequence. However, longer term this is repurposing of a top 10 pick, and Oil will have to weigh how much going all in win now vs. build as you go. Not a prob w/sufficient drafting/trading/signings.

Picks vs. Holloway
Holloway not even signed yet, and projects as a W not a C. Buch is proven instant help.
__________________________

Rangers
overall
- $ wise, want to dump Deangelo, pref at full pop. check
It is a major concession to take back not just salary but a larger salary.
However, repurposing of player value surrendered for potential blue chip stud = worthwhile

- if Neal bought out he will cost more than Deangelo, but that is only $, and NY can/should go there IF there is enough in assets returned. Neal will stay on the taxi squad, on merit, and NY will see if they can send Neal to SEA as its exp dr selection for a couple of prospects in follow up trade super cheap.

- Either way Neal is not a big deal if repurposing player value on Deangelo and esp Buch is achieved into futures, which facilitates we get to a core of emerging younger talent and streamlines mgmt of cap going forward.

- NY has enough Fs to absorb loss of Buch short term, w/Kratsov here as early as this yr and Barron strong possible to also join next season.
No to the fallacy of keep Buch until those other guys are here.
Make a deal now when a deal is most opportune and give kids mo mins.

- if we get Holloway it is a crapshoot but he could be a speed replacement for Kreider in 4 yrs
otherwise two 2nds works.

- want upgrade at LD check
how good Broberg will/will not be is unclear. However, the hope is he could maybe turn into another K'Andre Miller

- want room for Nils L, check

- better prepare for exp dr
Buchnevich + Deangelo [if protected] fit nicely in EDM exp dr picture.
But taking them off NY roster is a plus for Rangers. Broberg is exempt, happy to expose Neal, get an extra protection slot for Hajek on D and a deserving F

CONS
- none significant, just have to absorb Neal which is a prob short term, but not insurmountable.

--------
possible follow up is something around
Koekkoek 850,000 to FL
for
Juulsen 700k
minor LD for RD complementary swap/stopgap


have at it, and play nice....

 

[Vipers248]

This is fair. I got your back Bern!

Cmon that trade proposal is Crazy Bernie

 

[Vipers248]

Just a reminder.

This thread was created by me under certain expectations, some of which are opinion more open to debate, others which being less subjective are not.

One such expectation was that Broberg was likely available b'c it was thought Klefbom would return, if not this year then next. I was advised during this thread that, sorry to say, Klef may NOT return. That he will is such a risk that Broberg, who is not on the varsity at present, cannot be spared.

I evaluated this new info with an open mind, and I agree, the value of Broberg as a replacement for Klefbom exceeds his value in trade return, not just in this deal, but in most returns with a reasonable projection for a deal.

For that reason, I officially withdrew the offer.

So by all means, feel free to have open and constructive debate about other facets of this offer. Just play nice.

But since reality is Klefbom likely remaining down and out, there is no Broberg, and no Broberg = no deal.

 

[howkie]

The absolute worst case scenario DeAngelo is bought out for less than 1M. And there's obviously better case scenarios where he has value to the team or in a trade, so to suggest DeAngelo definitely has negative value and we should take a terrible contract really doesn't make any sense. The worst case scenario of buying out DeAngelo for less than 1M is better than Neal's contract. Other fans want to saddle us with their bad contracts. Thinking about this from the Rangers perspective though, what sense does that make? Clearly none.

Thats why fans need to get past this idea that they are going to throw their bad contracts at us for DeAngelo. If nothing of value is offered up, we'll buy him out at the end of the season for less than 1M. It's probably no more complicated than that. I think if it becomes any more complicated than that it's because the Rangers bring him back to play. That seems more likely than taking on a bad contract.

If noone took him for free,what value does he have? Only value is to swap contracts, and Rangers wont take a worse back, since it is cheap as hell to buy out ADA.

 

[goal1228]

Cmon that trade proposal is Crazy Bernie

IDK...i can see this one happening

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

If noone took him for free,what value does he have? Only value is to swap contracts, and Rangers wont take a worse back, since it is cheap as hell to buy out ADA.

Thats deceiving. If you claim him off waivers, you have to pay his contract. There are four teams in the league that have the cap space to add his contract. He's not for free. You are paying his contract, if you claim him off waivers. There's been plenty of reports that there's interest in DeAngelo.

 

[The Turtle]

Based on value alone Holland laughs. Then you consider the ramifications of a locker room cancer in Deangelo, yuck. Then you take into account that this trainwreck of deal doesn’t meet any of the Oilers needs and they would be giving up arguably their two best blue chip prospects to do so. Call disconnected.

If you actually looked at the Oilers cap situation come the off season they aren’t dying to move the Neal contract.

If you aren’t offering a top pair d-man or a #1 goalie Edmonton has no reason to talk.

 

[n8]

oh, another Broberg proposal from Bern. gotcha.

 

[Daemar]

From a purely Oilers perspective, Holland isn't trading any of his prospects, let alone both their recent first rounders.
Broberg slots in as Top 4 D, Holloway as Top 6 or 3C at worst. Both come in cost controlled. Buch and DeAngelo do not address team need, especially as of the last 12 games. James Neal can be bought out and have 25 mil in cap available for next year.

 

[TBF1972]

IDK...i can see this one happening