Proposal: NYR-EDM immediate gain for potential upside

[ElPrimeTime]

Dude, you aren't a champion of free speech. You are a champion of garbage one sided deals. Everyone knows you have a hard-on for Broberg. That's fine. But at least offer something worth our time for him.

Can't blame him for having a broner for Broberg... it's just all the nonsensical crap offers that include some combination of Buch, ADA and Georgie.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Can't blame him for having a broner for Broberg... it's just all the nonsensical crap offers that include some combination of Buch, ADA and Georgie.

I'm an Oiler fan too. I absolutely get having the man-wood for Broberg. But yeah, if you want our best prospect, give us a good offer involving better this.

 

[SwedishFire]

NYR
W Buchnevich 3.25 at half = 1.625 expiring w/rfa + D Deangelo 4.8 x 2
+ BUF 2021 3rd + TOR 2021 4th
total cap 6.425
for

EDM
Broberg 984,167 elc x 3 + Koekkoek 850,000 expiring ufa + Neal 5.7 x 3 then ufa
+ EITHER
rights to Dylan Holloway (2020 draft mid first, unsigned, no cap hit)
OR
Oilers 2022 and 2023 2nd round picks
total cap 7.534,167

cap dif is [7.534,167 - 6.425] = 1.109,167 instant cap savings to EDM

comment on value:
the extra year on Neal at 5.7 commands a full 2nd, pushing a first given the Marleau/Staal standard, 6m and over = 1st, 5 short of 6 = 2nd, etc.
that is one 2nd
Oil do not have a 3rd or 5th and get a good 3rd and a 4th, plus they are getting
half on Buchnevich,
dif on Neal two years vs Deangelo two years
all of those combine to = at least the other 2nd
OR Holloway for both 2nds
{whether Holloway or the two 2nds, either path = not immediately useful assets, i.e., = delayed not instant gratification as to their usefulness which benefits Oil}

--------------------
Analysis/check boxes:
Oil:
PROS
- $ wise, want to dump Neal, pref at full pop. check
Since getting rid of Lucic there has been an extended process of removing this salary or its successor; big win to move added year at more $
- want upgrade at RD check
Deangelo carries a risk factor, but even should it b'c necessary, due to age he is a cheap buyout; but as to performance he was like 3rd best scoring D last yr. That is not everything but it is not nothing, either.
Deangelo will be playing to justify being kept in NHL, it is not a given but a decent bet he will try to avoid something that eliminates that.
- production wise, getting Buch, retained no less, is a top 6/first line W add check
Buch is young and will make the cut for the exp dr
Deangelo also mid 20s and EDM has flexibility to protect or expose in exp dr
- CF says EDM has zero cap space so 1m+ is signif

CONS
- futures
From a standpoint of the immediate roster, Broberg is not a loss as he is not with the big club atm.
Also, Oil have committed to Klefbom + Nurse, and in cap tight environment of next 2 yrs, taker for either at current salary is uphill w/o retention. So immediate sacrifice does not have instant consequence. However, longer term this is repurposing of a top 10 pick, and Oil will have to weigh how much going all in win now vs. build as you go. Not a prob w/sufficient drafting/trading/signings.

Picks vs. Holloway
Holloway not even signed yet, and projects as a W not a C. Buch is proven instant help.
__________________________

Rangers
overall
- $ wise, want to dump Deangelo, pref at full pop. check
It is a major concession to take back not just salary but a larger salary.
However, repurposing of player value surrendered for potential blue chip stud = worthwhile

- if Neal bought out he will cost more than Deangelo, but that is only $, and NY can/should go there IF there is enough in assets returned. Neal will stay on the taxi squad, on merit, and NY will see if they can send Neal to SEA as its exp dr selection for a couple of prospects in follow up trade super cheap.

- Either way Neal is not a big deal if repurposing player value on Deangelo and esp Buch is achieved into futures, which facilitates we get to a core of emerging younger talent and streamlines mgmt of cap going forward.

- NY has enough Fs to absorb loss of Buch short term, w/Kratsov here as early as this yr and Barron strong possible to also join next season.
No to the fallacy of keep Buch until those other guys are here.
Make a deal now when a deal is most opportune and give kids mo mins.

- if we get Holloway it is a crapshoot but he could be a speed replacement for Kreider in 4 yrs
otherwise two 2nds works.

- want upgrade at LD check
how good Broberg will/will not be is unclear. However, the hope is he could maybe turn into another K'Andre Miller

- want room for Nils L, check

- better prepare for exp dr
Buchnevich + Deangelo [if protected] fit nicely in EDM exp dr picture.
But taking them off NY roster is a plus for Rangers. Broberg is exempt, happy to expose Neal, get an extra protection slot for Hajek on D and a deserving F

CONS
- none significant, just have to absorb Neal which is a prob short term, but not insurmountable.

--------
possible follow up is something around
Koekkoek 850,000 to FL
for
Juulsen 700k
minor LD for RD complementary swap/stopgap


have at it, and play nice....

Nope.. These two prospects are no 1 and no 2 in their prospect pool, and a big part of the futureplan. Holloway doing really good, and Broberg has hockeysense and skating for him. Easy no from Oklers. Its not that easy to make highwsybrobbery trades

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Nope.. These two prospects are no 1 and no 2 in their prospect pool, and a big part of the futureplan. Holloway doing really good, and Broberg has hockeysense and skating for him. Easy no from Oklers. Its not that easy to make highwsybrobbery trades

but WAIT...

Edmonton gets a whopping $1 mil in instant cap savings, the real gem of the trade

 

[Subtleskater]

I honestly think the oilers would have a hard time reading neal for TDA straight up. I don't think I would even do that if I was Ken Holland

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Bern, can we please stop with the Broberg suggestions? Good prospect, but I don't know why we absolutely need him.

And I'm not trading Buch until Kakko or Lafreniere+Kravtsov show themselves to be top six NHL'er. We heard for years how it was ridiculous to suggest that Kravtsov wouldn't be better than Buchnevich. Now we are at the point where there's a good chance Kravtsov's ceiling is Buchnevich. Kakko and Lafreniere have also not shown enough that we can throw out our only top six RW for futures. If we trade Buch right now with DeAngelo already off the team, we pretty much have no chance to make the playoffs. We can't lose our quality mid-20's players for futures/scraps. Management already made an unforced error on DeAngelo thats probably going to cost us this season.

Look at the game last night. Icing Hajek over DeAngelo made the difference because we were icing an AHL guy. One play from a player who is in over his head gives the Isles the victory in a close game. You can't keep hurting your current roster, and expect to be competitive.

 

[bernmeister]

I really believe that Klefbom is done. I hope I am wrong, but I think that is actually the case.

Unless a guy is a complete effin bastard dirty player, regardless of fan loyalty to a given team, always hope for best for athletes who put their bodies on the line for fans in any sport.

Had NO IDEA Klef was that bad, or I would not have brought up Bromberg.

Hope for the best, whether he comes back or retires.
There is a guy in football, Raiders C from the early days of Oakland.
Double 0, Jim Otto.
played ridiculous # of years.
Don't know it is true but hear he is mobile impaired.

Not worth it.

And Klef was nowhere near the same willing glutton for punishment.

 

[bernmeister]

Bern, can we please stop with the Broberg suggestions? Good prospect, but I don't know why we absolutely need him.

And I'm not trading Buch until Kakko or Lafreniere+Kravtsov show themselves to be top six NHL'er. We heard for years how it was ridiculous to suggest that Kravtsov wouldn't be better than Buchnevich. Now we are at the point where there's a good chance Kravtsov's ceiling is Buchnevich. Kakko and Lafreniere have also not shown enough that we can throw out our only top six RW for futures. If we trade Buch right now with DeAngelo already off the team, we pretty much have no chance to make the playoffs. We can't lose our quality mid-20's players for futures/scraps. Management already made an unforced error on DeAngelo thats probably going to cost us this season.

Look at the game last night. Icing Hajek over DeAngelo made the difference because we were icing an AHL guy. One play from a player who is in over his head gives the Isles the victory in a close game. You can't keep hurting your current roster, and expect to be competitive.

The Broberg props are dead for the time being for the reason I stated: an adjustment based on the fact that w/Klef injured he is worth more to Oil internally than in almost any predictable trade return.

I disagree about shortchanging our youth mins they need; holding vets too long is the worse of 2 evils, esp, since we supposedly have good prospects.

Play da kids. go thru learning pains NOW one shot, and advance. Not super slow incremental moves.
Now, if you don't have the horses and we are lacking in quality prospects, I get that; the dark ages were not THAT long ago. But that is not the case today.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The Broberg props are dead for the time being for the reason I stated: an adjustment based on the fact that w/Klef injured he is worth more to Oil internally than in almost any predictable trade return.

I disagree about shortchanging our youth mins they need; holding vets too long is the worse of 2 evils, esp, since we supposedly have good prospects.

Play da kids. go thru learning pains NOW one shot, and advance. Not super slow incremental moves.
Now, if you don't have the horses and we are lacking in quality prospects, I get that; the dark ages were not THAT long ago. But that is not the case today.

If I bought your theory that we need to invest completely in kids and sell off the mid-20's guys, what do you do with Panarin and Zibanejad? It would seem like the team is in a weird predicament where our two best forwards are win-now but the rest of the roster isn't. If we are building for 3-4 years from now, Zibanejad might not be on the team. And if he is, he's probably going to have already started his decline. Panarin will still be on the team, but declining with a huge contract.

I think the best middle ground is to try to recognize we aren't going to win the Cup this year and next, but to keep the players we have, and hope that players such as Lafreniere, Kakko, Miller, Chytil can become top level players within the next few seasons to go along with Panarin, Zibanejad, Fox, Shestyorkin, Trouba, Buchnevich, Kreider. If those four younger players can develop within the next season or two to go along with the veteran players we have, that might be a team that can be real contenders for a Cup starting either in the 2021-22 or 2022-23 seasons.

 

[bernmeister]

The rangers are a dumpster fire I think many of their players are not as good as advertised. Buyer beware . The only guy I would consider is kreider he has heart.

Kreider, whom many have said I regarded like a son, would be interesting. Clean deal,
kreider to immediately help McD now and correct +
vs
Broberg + Holloway

but besides the timing on Klefbom negating Broberg availability. Kreider is happy in NY and we need his beast factor. Nothing happenin w/him anytime soon.

I honestly think the oilers would have a hard time reading neal for TDA straight up. I don't think I would even do that if I was Ken Holland

My friend, we have a failure to communicate.
If we go strictly by the #s, Deangelo, who is NOT required to be on the team as an actual player, is worth more $$$ due to shorter term easy buyout than Neal.
That is math and it is not open to discussion in that vacuum.

Rangers will buy out Deangelo for his cap at first chance if another team does not decide the cap relief is preferable for them, and is willing to offer acceptable sweetener.

 

[bernmeister]

If I bought your theory that we need to invest completely in kids and sell off the mid-20's guys, what do you do with Panarin and Zibanejad? It would seem like the team is in a weird predicament where our two best forwards are win-now but the rest of the roster isn't. If we are building for 3-4 years from now, Zibanejad might not be on the team. And if he is, he's probably going to have already started his decline. Panarin will still be on the team, but declining with a huge contract.

I think the best middle ground is to try to recognize we aren't going to win the Cup this year and next, but to keep the players we have, and hope that players such as Lafreniere, Kakko, Miller, Chytil can become top level players within the next few seasons to go along with Panarin, Zibanejad, Fox, Shestyorkin, Trouba, Buchnevich, Kreider. If those four younger players can develop within the next season or two to go along with the veteran players we have, that might be a team that can be real contenders for a Cup starting either in the 2021-22 or 2022-23 seasons.

Gotta run now and don't want an extended Rangers discussion in this thread. But short courtesy reply:

Panarin is exceptional, likely stays for that reason [plus NMC etc].
Zib is high quality, not sure he stays or not.

We need to jettison Strome Buch etc for Kakko etc mins.
Those guys need those mins now not later.

We are not building a team for 3-4 yrs, we are building for next yr.
Kids need those mins now, get futures on vets

 

[TBF1972]

Can't blame him for having a broner for Broberg... it's just all the nonsensical crap offers that include some combination of Buch, ADA and Georgie.

you forgot the exchange of 6 picks, which upgrade 2 third round and 1 fourth round in 3 second round picks.

 

[ElPrimeTime]

you forgot the exchange of 6 picks, which upgrade 2 third round and 1 fourth round in 3 second round picks.

There are always a million picks involved.

 

[TBF1972]

Bern, can we please stop with the Broberg suggestions? Good prospect, but I don't know why we absolutely need him.

And I'm not trading Buch until Kakko or Lafreniere+Kravtsov show themselves to be top six NHL'er. We heard for years how it was ridiculous to suggest that Kravtsov wouldn't be better than Buchnevich. Now we are at the point where there's a good chance Kravtsov's ceiling is Buchnevich. Kakko and Lafreniere have also not shown enough that we can throw out our only top six RW for futures. If we trade Buch right now with DeAngelo already off the team, we pretty much have no chance to make the playoffs. We can't lose our quality mid-20's players for futures/scraps. Management already made an unforced error on DeAngelo thats probably going to cost us this season.

Look at the game last night. Icing Hajek over DeAngelo made the difference because we were icing an AHL guy. One play from a player who is in over his head gives the Isles the victory in a close game. You can't keep hurting your current roster, and expect to be competitive.

in other proposals from the same source hajek was passed as a prospect with legit top 4 potential.

 

[TBF1972]

There are always a million picks involved.

finding those constellation for sure takes him the majority of his life time.

 

[treple13]

I honestly think the oilers would have a hard time reading neal for TDA straight up. I don't think I would even do that if I was Ken Holland

Yes you would. You'd do it in an instant, then just bury ADA and buy him out in the summer and you'd basically gets an almost free buyout of Neal.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

in other proposals from the same source hajek was passed as a prospect with legit top 4 potential.

I don't think I've ever claimed he has that potential. He sucks.

 

[TBF1972]

I don't think I've ever claimed he has that potential. He sucks.

i was refering to op, but if you are the one and the same person ....

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Yes you would. You'd do it in an instant, then just bury ADA and buy him out in the summer and you'd basically gets an almost free buyout of Neal.

the Condors have had quite enough brushes with d-bags, thank you (Manning-Imama incident last year)

 

[treple13]

the Condors have had quite enough brushes with d-bags, thank you (Manning-Imama incident last year)

I was thinking you put him on the "taxi squad" and keep him away from the rest of the team.

 

[bernmeister]

Yes you would. You'd do it in an instant, then just bury ADA and buy him out in the summer and you'd basically gets an almost free buyout of Neal.

my point exactly

 

[McSuper]

concur w/much of this post, just want to emphasize:

1. Deangelo clearing is nobody wants him at full pop when there is a chance that w/correct positive going to NY, Rangers would retain.

2. EMPHASIZE Deangelo production is x factor kicker. Real value = financial savings whether he is retained or bought 0ut compared to Neal. That is what Oil are buying, actual and potential $ advantage

3 Buch shoots left and can play LW. We have Kreider at LW so happy to have him at RW, but is a natural fit other hand.

4 Holloway was a possible but I am good with yielding if a package on the rest of it can be agreed to.

No to your OP .

We don’t want ADA period
By all accounts Holloway will be turning pro next season . He is what the Oilers need . Speed , defensively responsible and a hound on the puck . He is doing better then higher drafted prospect . He will fit well with McDavid or as a 3rd line C
Buch and ADA isn’t turning the Oilers into contenders . The prospect low cap hits plus the extra money we can use in UFA could make use much better .

Neal is at least a good team mate so he can mentor the young guys . ADA isn’t mentoring my dog .

using Holloway not signing as a negative is laughable . He an Alberta boy who was happy the Oilers drafted him . There no rush to sign him as he was going back to school . Nice try on your angle .

 

[treple13]

Neal is at least a good team mate

When did this happen?

 

[GirardSpinorama]

It's a package deal
Oil win on Neal (3yrs mo $) for Deangelo (2yrs less $)
and get Buch at half!

but have to cough up futures for that.

Ya but DeAngelo is toxic right now while Neal is just overpaid. Neal for DeAngelo would be a win for the rags right now since DeAngelo is literally never going to contribute value to them.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Ya but DeAngelo is toxic right now while Neal is just overpaid. Neal for DeAngelo would be a win for the rags right now since DeAngelo is literally never going to contribute value to them.

Using your logic, which I'm not even sure I agree about, you think it makes sense to add a negative value player because a player placed on the trade block has net zero value?