Speculation: Nylander VII

[Boxscore]

I’ve always disliked when the media did this. I think the fans have always considered Matthews, Marner, and Nylander to be on the same level when it comes to leading this team into the future, but the media always threw his name out as trade bait, or failed to mention him in the same breath as Matthews or Marner when speaking about the Leafs. Management has always been sure to speak about all three on equal terms, the media hasn’t.

I don’t know if it’s rubbed off on Nylander in anyway, but I hope if the two sides are talking (which based on the bare bones rumours we’re getting, they aren’t) that the Leafs stress to Nylander that he’s still a key piece to this team, even if he’s only making $6-something million.

True. And very valid point. But I think this is why the Leafs should have been extra careful with the way they handle(d) Nylander.

It comes down to this...

The Leafs went outside the organization and brought in John Tavares - making him the 2nd highest cap hit in the NHL behind McDavid... and are now using the media to tell their young core, "we want you all to take less." In other words: We need you (young players) to work around the deal we gave to Tavares.

Why didn't the Leafs take a different approach and say to Tavares, we'd love you to be part of the family, but you need to work with us. Not the other way around. Tell Tavares - to be fair, we need to sign our young core. If you are willing to work with us to fit into our plan, we'll welcome you with open arms. Instead, they prioritized Tavares over their own. Paying Tavares 11 mil cap hit a year is not "him working with the team" it's paying him top dollar. Period.

Now they're facing challenges with their own young player and he's the first of three. It won't get easier. If Matthews scores 100 points this year and says, "I want McDavid money, period. Not budging." What are the Leafs going to go? Not pay him? How about if Marner scores 94 points and wants 10.5 mil? Are the leafs going to go through this with him too?

They set the precedent when they paid Tavares 11 mil on the open market - now they need to make their own players happy. You don't do that by campaigning through the media and dragging out their contracts into the season so they're losing money each day.

 

[firstemperor]

If Trouba is willing to extend at 7-7.5M the Jets look for a way to get it done. Top pairing RHD is more important than a RW when the depth is Wheeler-Laine. As for C, the Jets view and are grooming Roslovic as a future C he's still getting his feet wet though.

Nevertheless, the cap hit of Nylander @7-7.5M is just not a smart use of the budget when the team has adequate forward depth

I would also think Nylanders @7-7.5M+Trouba replacement would exceed what money would need to be shelled out for just Trouba

I agree with what you wrote but I just don't think it's realistic to expect (though I know what your saying):

1) Trouba singing with term, at 7-7.5m AAV
2) Nylander signing with term, at 7-7.5m AAV

One has basically no RFA years left, and the other player is just exiting his ELC.

I don't think Dubas will give Nylander more than 7m AAV on the high-end.

And I don't think Trouba will settle for less than 8m AAV on the low-end. 8m AAV with term would already be a significant discount. That would already be on the low-end of what he could get on the open market (i.e. 8m AAV).

 

[Brock Radunske]

In a total fantasy world, Nylander+ for Parayko. Realistically? I dunno, Gudas?

Gudas?
Like....the Gudas that plays in Philly?
Uh...I'm assuming Sanheim and Frost are coming back too, right?

 

[FrozenJagrt]

Gudas?
Like....the Gudas that plays in Philly?
Uh...I'm assuming Sanheim and Frost are coming back too, right?

It was a joke. Come on.

 

[jrs]

Omg make the threads stop

 

[Sundinisagod]

I know Trouba is from Michigan, and it's a ways from home, but honestly I've never heard anything about his father being unable to set foot in Canada (actually I find that amusing - guy must really have issues, or is a f**k up for something like that to happen).

Still - Trouba needs to grow up...As a pro athlete you're already handsomely compensated, and being on the Jets is a blessing if you ask me...90% (maybe more) of the of players are playing for teams that they most likely didn't watch, or cared much about while growing up, but I'll tell ya what - whatever team drafted me (if I could be so lucky) - that team is my favorite team from that point on (unless the bastards trade me - lol).

It doesn't take much to get barred entry into Canada or the US, any sort of criminal record, I know people with a DUI or caught with a J, back in the 80's and they haven't been able to enter the states since. It's pretty much the same for Americans getting into Canada.

If this is true, I can't blame Trouba for not wanting to play for a Canadian team. I must suck not being able to have his father at home games for him. It seems to make sense, as there was never really a great reason given for him not wanting to play for a Canadian team...actually I can't recall at this point if he ever came out and stated that, but we all have our suspicions based on his contract negotiations.

 

[FerrisRox]

He will lose quite a bit of cash though.

Even that's not true. If he signed in Sweden, he'd probably take a financial hit but if he signs in the KHL, with the tax-free salaries, he could make around $4 million and take it all home. In the NHL at $6.5 million, he'd make less this year than he would in the K.

 

[FerrisRox]

He won't play in Europe. Players of his calibre don't do that. He could blow his knee-out and cost himself tens of millions.

If he doesn't play in the NHL this year he absolutely will play in Europe. He's not going to sit out the entire year.

 

[Boxscore]

Gudas?
Like....the Gudas that plays in Philly?
Uh...I'm assuming Sanheim and Frost are coming back too, right?

Despite what fellow Flyers fans will say (because they love our prospects way too much), Philly makes a very good trading partner for Nylander IMO.

What do the Flyers need? Scoring, scoring, scoring. They also need young, dynamic offensive players who can contribute NOW while Giroux, Voracek and JVR are still impact players. Frost, Farabee, O'Brien, Ratcliffe, Allison, etc. are all super prospects, but they will not be contributing until Giroux is 33-34 and on a severe decline. Couturier, Patrick and Lindblom are awesome, young players, but they are all very North-South, meat and potato players. The Flyers need a "mini Giroux." Enter William Nylander.

What do the Leafs need? For one, they need long-term cap flexibility. They know they will be paying Matthews and Marner top dollar, and they are struggling now because they know they realistically can't do it while paying Nylander what he wants long-term. The second thing the Leafs need is an upgrade on defense - but it needs to come cheap. Enter Travis Sanheim.

On the surface, Leafs fans will say, "Sanheim isn't close to getting you Nylander" but they also need to think that Sanheim is playing now, and as early as mid-season could be a two-way, 2nd pairing D for the Leafs... and making very little money. As he gets better, the Leafs have term on him, and it will be a long time until he's requesting Nylander type money.

On the contrary, Flyers fans will say, "Sanheim is part of our young D core, we don't need Nylander." And they are seriously mistaken. The Flyers need a William Nylander and bad. With the emergence of Hagg and Myers still marinating in the system, the Flyers could afford to move Sanheim for a young upgrade at forward. Nylander could replace Giroux as the Flyers top scorer in 3 years - he's that creative, skilled and dynamic.

The debate is "what else" do the Flyers need to give up to even out the deal. I'm not sure about that. It certainly won't be a high-end prospect like Frost. But what will it be? In this deal, not only are the Leafs getting a very good, young defenseman in Sanheim, they are getting long-term cap relief - that is valuable.

 

[FelixPotvin29]

True. And very valid point. But I think this is why the Leafs should have been extra careful with the way they handle(d) Nylander.

It comes down to this...

The Leafs went outside the organization and brought in John Tavares - making him the 2nd highest cap hit in the NHL behind McDavid... and are now using the media to tell their young core, "we want you all to take less." In other words: We need you (young players) to work around the deal we gave to Tavares.

Why didn't the Leafs take a different approach and say to Tavares, we'd love you to be part of the family, but you need to work with us. Not the other way around. Tell Tavares - to be fair, we need to sign our young core. If you are willing to work with us to fit into our plan, we'll welcome you with open arms. Instead, they prioritized Tavares over their own. Paying Tavares 11 mil cap hit a year is not "him working with the team" it's paying him top dollar. Period.

Now they're facing challenges with their own young player and he's the first of three. It won't get easier. If Matthews scores 100 points this year and says, "I want McDavid money, period. Not budging." What are the Leafs going to go? Not pay him? How about if Marner scores 94 points and wants 10.5 mil? Are the leafs going to go through this with him too?

They set the precedent when they paid Tavares 11 mil on the open market - now they need to make their own players happy. You don't do that by campaigning through the media and dragging out their contracts into the season so they're losing money each day.

I don’t get how you think Tavares didn’t take a discount because he did. Is it because the Leafs front loaded the deal?

Can they not do that in an RFA contract?

 

[dirty stanchion]

Why didn't the Leafs take a different approach and say to Tavares, we'd love you to be part of the family, but you need to work with us. Not the other way around. Tell Tavares - to be fair, we need to sign our young core. If you are willing to work with us to fit into our plan, we'll welcome you with open arms. Instead, they prioritized Tavares over their own. Paying Tavares 11 mil cap hit a year is not "him working with the team" it's paying him top dollar. Period.

If I had to take a guess, it would because JT essentially played for free in the last 1 or 2 years of that contract in relation to his production.

To ask him to take another haircut would have been insulting imo.

The Leafs are making up the difference with his new contract.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Leafs plan is probably to sign nylander and trade him next summer.
I dont think nylander agrees to a contract without a nmc

 

[Boxscore]

I don’t get how you think Tavares didn’t take a discount because he did. Is it because the Leafs front loaded the deal?

Can they not do that in an RFA contract?

First, I really like John Tavares. As a player and dude. He is one of the good guys, period. Great player, great role model. Can't say anything bad about him.

But, I seriously disagree that Tavares "took a discount." This is not about dollars and cents, it's about cap space and the ability to build a team within the same cap structure as every other team. Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov REALLY took discounts. John Tavares didn't, and here's why...

A.) His camped used "San Jose is willing to pay him 13 mil" (which is ludicrous on their part BTW) to position 11 mil as a discount. When, in fact, 11 mil is the second largest cap hit in the entire NHL behind Connor McDavid. And Tavres never scored 90 points.

B.) Kucherov was just coming off two monster seasons, including a 100 point season, and was willing to forgo his UFA rights next summer to give the Bolts a REAL discount at 9.5 mil. That, folks, is a player making a statement that they want to "keep the team together." Fans can talk about Florida's tax code, etc. but that effects the Lightning salary cap in no way whatsoever. Each team only has one large pizza to go around. The players all determine how many slices of that pizza they get. Kucherov was willing to legitimately settle for a smaller piece. Period.

C.) If Tavares truly wanted to come home to Toronto and his MAIN goal was to "fit within the team" and give them a real "discount" he would have done what Kucherov did - take less of the available pie (cap space). 11 mil is SECOND in the entire NHL in terms of cap consumption. Second. Did Tavares not know the Leafs need to sign Matthews, Marner and Nylander? Of course he did. If he truly wanted to keep the team in tact, he would have told the Leafs, "I'll take less, say 9.5 mil, if we can use that money to keep Willy, Mitch and Auston. I'm all in." Taking the second largest cap hit in the NHL is not "giving a discount." lol.

Now, this doesn't make Tavares a bad guy - but let's just keep it real. He wanted to cash out and he didn't give the Leafs a discount. Now, the younger players look at this and say, "why should I?" That's the deal. Let's just be honest.

 

[member 157595]

Leafs plan is probably to sign nylander and trade him next summer.
I dont think nylander agrees to a contract without a nmc

If he wants a NMC from Toronto the contract needs to be extraordinarily team-friendly.

 

[SharksAddict]

Now, this doesn't make Tavares a bad guy - but let's just keep it real. He wanted to cash out and he didn't give the Leafs a discount. Now, the younger players look at this and say, "why should I?" That's the deal. Let's just be honest.

Definitely feels like Dubas intentionally tried to sell Tavares' contract as a "discount" to try and encourage Marner/Nylander to set their sights lower. Can't blame him for trying but doesn't appear that strategy is going to work.

 

[Strait2thecup]

It's funny that you think you know what you're talking about when you clearly don't. Leafs and Dubas hold all the cards right now.

If that were true nylander would be signed

 

[disgruntleddave]

It also has to be a future contract or only at the end of this one because he is ineligible for a NTC or NMC right now.

Why do all these posts with NTCs keep on coming? People have no idea of the actual situation..

 

[Dahlin 2 Eichel]

Leafs plan is probably to sign nylander and trade him next summer.
I dont think nylander agrees to a contract without a nmc

Which wouldn’t stop the leafs from trading him this summer

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Which wouldn’t stop the leafs from trading him this summer

RFA contracts are not allowed to have NTCs. Only when then extend into potential UFA years. So Nylander is going have no trade restrictions for the next 5 years. Yea, for cap reason in the future, Nylander seems like a l0gical candidate to be traded.

 

[Silencio]

Live feed of the Nylander-Dubas negotiations:

 

[Seanaconda]

If he wants a NMC from Toronto the contract needs to be extraordinarily team-friendly.

Can't get a no trade until he hits ufa years anyways

 

[McClelland]

He won't play in Europe. Players of his calibre don't do that. He could blow his knee-out and cost himself tens of millions.

Do you think everything is about money? Do you know how many Nhl players who risked 10 of millions playing in europe in the last lockout?
NHL players in Europe: The full list

 

[Brock Radunske]

It was a joke. Come on.

Phew. I was concerned

 

[Brock Radunske]

Despite what fellow Flyers fans will say (because they love our prospects way too much), Philly makes a very good trading partner for Nylander IMO.

What do the Flyers need? Scoring, scoring, scoring. They also need young, dynamic offensive players who can contribute NOW while Giroux, Voracek and JVR are still impact players. Frost, Farabee, O'Brien, Ratcliffe, Allison, etc. are all super prospects, but they will not be contributing until Giroux is 33-34 and on a severe decline. Couturier, Patrick and Lindblom are awesome, young players, but they are all very North-South, meat and potato players. The Flyers need a "mini Giroux." Enter William Nylander.

What do the Leafs need? For one, they need long-term cap flexibility. They know they will be paying Matthews and Marner top dollar, and they are struggling now because they know they realistically can't do it while paying Nylander what he wants long-term. The second thing the Leafs need is an upgrade on defense - but it needs to come cheap. Enter Travis Sanheim.

On the surface, Leafs fans will say, "Sanheim isn't close to getting you Nylander" but they also need to think that Sanheim is playing now, and as early as mid-season could be a two-way, 2nd pairing D for the Leafs... and making very little money. As he gets better, the Leafs have term on him, and it will be a long time until he's requesting Nylander type money.

On the contrary, Flyers fans will say, "Sanheim is part of our young D core, we don't need Nylander." And they are seriously mistaken. The Flyers need a William Nylander and bad. With the emergence of Hagg and Myers still marinating in the system, the Flyers could afford to move Sanheim for a young upgrade at forward. Nylander could replace Giroux as the Flyers top scorer in 3 years - he's that creative, skilled and dynamic.

The debate is "what else" do the Flyers need to give up to even out the deal. I'm not sure about that. It certainly won't be a high-end prospect like Frost. But what will it be? In this deal, not only are the Leafs getting a very good, young defenseman in Sanheim, they are getting long-term cap relief - that is valuable.

I agree with your assessment but the sticking point is that Sanheim is a LHD, which would make it tough for him to be the centerpiece for Nylander.

 

[TOGuy14]

For all the concern about the Leafs cap situation the Jets are probably worse off than the Leafs

Don’t see them as a candidate to take on Nylander