Nylander is getting too much hate, but the love might be returning!

[Nithoniniel]

No I’m going to hold him to Pastrnak standards.

Why? Pastrnak is a player who has outplayed his contract by a huge margin. That's like holding a 6 million player to Scheifele or MacKinnon standard. You really hope for it to happen, but if you set that as a standard then you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

"160 games" with Matthews as his center. Willy scored all of 20 goals per. Nice numbers if you are Brendan Gallagher playing with Tomas Plekanec as your center.

We're back to judging playmakers by goals scored, I see.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Why? Pastrnak is a player who has outplayed his contract by a huge margin. That's like holding a 6 million player to Scheifele or MacKinnon standard.

You see? That. That right there is what I want OUR gm to do.

Give out GOOD contracts where players OUTPLAY them.

Not 7 million for a guy on pace for 3-4 goals after a quarter of the season.

 

[socko]

You see? That. That right there is what I want OUR gm to do.

Give out GOOD contracts where players OUTPLAY them.

Not 7 million for a guy on pace for 3-4 goals after a quarter of the season.

Sounds like you want Steve Yzerman. But does Shanahan have the balls to do it?

 

[Ziggdiezan]

You see? That. That right there is what I want OUR gm to do.

Give out GOOD contracts where players OUTPLAY them.

Not 7 million for a guy on pace for 3-4 goals after a quarter of the season.

If Nylander paces for less than 20 goals and 60 points next year I think you will have a strong case.

However Leafs would be foolish to sell so low on Nylander by moving him before he gets a full season. Even if he plays well you can still trade him and get a better return.

Just bad asset management to consider trading Nylander as this point.

 

[egd27]

pace yourself. it's gonna be a very long haul.

It’s gonna be a very long haul until he is worth his contract?

I thought you were a ny-guy?

 

[Nithoniniel]

I can't agree with your premise but I love seeing you point out the logically fallacious nonsense to defend him.

What logically fallacious nonsense is that? Not being combative, I'm just curious what you mean.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

It's not enough mocking.

Our 7 million dollar player is on pace for 3-4 goals over 82, after playing more than a quarter of the season.

Fans should be a lot angrier than they're showing.

Not all of us are like you. We won't all use spin/lies/rhetoric to try and make ourselves feel better about it.

You have a very very long history of overrating leaf teams and players. Wouldn't expect it to end now.

LOL wait what. Zeke is one of the most realistic posters on here. This just shows how 'wrong' your opinion is.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Zeke has been a staunch supporter of quite a few of our players, and most of them have gone on to prove him completely right.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

LOL wait what. Zeke is one of the most realistic posters on here. This just shows how 'wrong' your opinion is.

Zeke looks realistic now because the leafs are pretty darn good.

Because that's his schtick. The leafs are "always the best". Do that for 25 years, and I suppose you'll eventually be right. I'd STILL say that he dramatically overrates the leafs, even this year. But that's at least debateable.

Want a good laugh? Look at what he was saying about leaf teams and players during the Burke/Nonis years.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Zeke has been a staunch supporter of quite a few of our players, and most of them have gone on to prove him completely right.

People have very short memories.

 

[Notsince67]

So signing players to far lower cap percentages "isn't an advantage" because "sometimes bad contracts happen anyways." Wow.

Either the tax thing is an excuse. Or it isnt'. But it can't just constantly change based on the argument.

Please list organizations that have won the cup with a tax advantage. What you are saying is theoretical but it isnt an issue if cups aren't being won.

 

[LeafSteel]

After July 1 Nylander will be playing somewhere else.

The more I see it, the more I am now convinced that the long-term best interests of this team is Nylander traded this summer, particularly if he can get his head out of his arse and start to play like the player that got him his contract.

Was never against him and was super pumped out when we signed Tavares to see our guys, inlcuding Nylander, scoring by the butt-load, but this whole thing and his subsequent play has soured me on him as a person and a player. Simply put, it makes me unsure that he is a player that we can win with. I now find him enigmatic at this point.

If you can pull a Nylander for Pesce+ this July 2nd, I think it leaves our team much better off long-term.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Please list organizations that have won the cup with a tax advantage. What you are saying is theoretical but it isnt an issue if cups aren't being won.

So is Dubas at a disadvantage to some other gm's when it comes to "taxes" and "cap hits"? Or isn't he?

 

[Menzinger]

It's not enough mocking.

Our 7 million dollar player is on pace for 3-4 goals over 82, after playing more than a quarter of the season.

Fans should be a lot angrier than they're showing.

Not all of us are like you. We won't all use spin/lies/rhetoric to try and make ourselves feel better about it.

You have a very very long history of overrating leaf teams and players. Wouldn't expect it to end now.

Zeke has been one of the most consistent and level headed posters here, who constantly backsnuonhis opinions with tangible evidence and examples.
Quite frankly, you of all people shouldn’t be trying to call out others about taking questionable opinions

 

[Notsince67]

So is Dubas at a disadvantage to some other gm's when it comes to "taxes" and "cap hits"? Or isn't he?

Dubas has a disadvantage because he believed in a mantra of taking time to sign players. He should have locked Matthew's and Marner at the first sign that Nylander was being difficult. That means Matthew's at 11 for 8 and Marner at 8.5 for 8.

 

[Menzinger]

You guys think you can keep this up for 7 years?

because willy ain't going nowhere.

That’s a fair point, and something that keeps getting lost on a lot of people who seem to think he’s going to be traded it in time soon.

If you hate William Nylander there’s a fair chance you don’t have much insight into how a guy like Dubas thinks about hockey or the current Leafs team

 

[Menzinger]

Dubas has a disadvantage because he believed in a mantra of taking time to sign players. He should have locked Matthew's and Marner at the first sign that Nylander was being difficult. That means Matthew's at 11 for 8 and Marner at 8.5 for 8.

There’s zero evidence that he could have the option to: other than a couple dubious claims from guys who are never right about Leafs news.

 

[socko]

There seems to be this belief that Nylander is going to be put back on Matthews coattail at some point. But what if Babcock thinks a $7.5 million winger should be able to drive his own line? Ruh roh.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Zeke has been one of the most consistent and level headed posters here, who constantly backsnuonhis opinions with tangible evidence and examples.
Quite frankly, you of all people shouldn’t be trying to call out others about taking questionable opinions

Yes, I realize he's on your same team of "the leafs are always the BEST, no matter what."

But, again, that's his schtick. The leafs and their players are ALWAYS "the best". Those types of posters looked pretty silly during the Burke/Nonis years....

 

[Menzinger]

There seems to be this belief that Nylander is going to be put back on Matthew's coattail at some point. But what if Babcock thinks a $7.5 million winger should be able to drive his own line? Ruh roh.

You seem to care more about the Nylander failing, than the Leafs succeeding. Which is quite sad when you think about it.

The Matthews-Nylander tandem was one of the most effective 5v5 duos in the NHL the past couple seasons, hardly an unreasonable desire to want the aleafsbto try and replicate that success.

 

[Menzinger]

Yes, I realize he's on your same team of "the leafs are always the BEST, no matter what."

But, again, that's his schtick. The leafs and their players are ALWAYS "the best". Those types of posters looked pretty silly during the Burke/Nonis years....

His posts opinions and then backs it up with a clearly worded explanation about why he feels that way supported by evidence.

Which is better than the garbage-level hot takes I see from some folks around here.

 

[Notsince67]

There’s zero evidence that he could have the option to: other than a couple dubious claims from guys who are never right about Leafs news.

The evidence was that Dubas himself said they didn't even get to an agreement of process and the rumor that Marner was asking for 9. That was an opening offer. Marners camp said it didn't want to negotiate during the season, before the season began. Please dont pretend that he will be signed for the same or less of what it would have taken in the summer.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

His posts opinions and then backs it up with a clearly worded explanation about why he feels that way supported by evidence.

Which is better than the garbage-level hot takes I see from some folks around here.

Well, his clearly worded explanations and evidence seemed pretty silly during the Burke/Nonis years...

 

[socko]

You seem to care more about the Nylander failing, than the Leafs succeeding. Which is quite sad when you think about it.

The Matthews-Nylander tandem was one of the most effective 5v5 duos in the NHL the past couple seasons, hardly an unreasonable desire to want the aleafsbto try and replicate that success.

Totally wrong. I care about paying a guy who is overrated, soft, and doesn't even come in shape, a boatload of money. I don't care about Nylander failing. Go back and read my posts from when we drafted him. I loved the pick. He earned my disdain.

 

[Notsince67]

Sure. But what is a fair and reasonable offer? As I've shown before, if you take the top 10 comparable players and what their contracts signed this off-season would be, they would average about $7M per season. Nobody has a better track record predicting contracts than Matt Cane, and he had Nylander pegged to get $7M over a 6 year contract. So that's probably what Nylander camp would say is fair and reasonable. Is it really fair and reasonable if you get paid less than most of your comparables?

The cost for all of this is that he missed a bunch of games that for a team like us are mostly meaningless, and that he came back in camp form when the rest of the league is in mid-season form. None of that really matters over a six year perspective. It doesn't really matter that much when you look at only this season.

I think the model is broken