Nylander is getting too much hate, but the love might be returning!

[zeke]

and neither am I. I'll continue to question whether or not the Nylander signing was a mistake or not. I hope he lives up to his contract, but am not expecting it to happen.

pace yourself. it's gonna be a very long haul.

 

[socko]

pace yourself. it's gonna be a very long haul.

we'll be taking it slow and easy like Willy during a holdout.

 

[topched]

complaining about people complaining, that's your thing isn't it?

He makes a legitimate point.

Why there’s 30+ pages on is Nylander a bust while Zaitsev has 4.5x5 left on a deal that he’s earning 550k of is textbook leafs fan behaviour.

Let’s worry about the proven performer off to a slow start in game 23 of a 6 year deal and ignore the lunch pail guy who is actively dragging the team down on a nightly basis.

 

[rumman]

pace yourself. it's gonna be a very long haul.

perhaps.

 

[mikeo1]

you gonna keep up the advanced stats hate for the next decade?

cuz dubey ain't going nowhere.

I think there’s a good chance Dubas doesn’t keep his word and trades Nylander at some point if he doesn’t start producing. Advance stats are nice, but at the end of the day if the team isn’t performing and the player isn’t producing up to expectations you have to reassess things.

 

[rumman]

He makes a legitimate point.

Why there’s 30+ pages on is Nylander a bust while Zaitsev has 4.5x5 left on a deal that he’s earning 550k of is textbook leafs fan behaviour.

Let’s worry about the proven performer off to a slow start in game 23 of a 6 year deal and ignore the lunch pail guy who is actively dragging the team down on a nightly basis.

there wouldn't be 30 pages if some posters didn't keep telling other posters how their opinion's wrong, but isn't that the whole point of a discussion board?

 

[IPS]

Hate to say it, but Nylander looking more and more like a bust, and 7 million dollar bust.

He still looks like a real good player, but when you do not put up the points, then it is like you're just average. For that salary, you need more than to be average.

Nylander skates around with the puck looking good, but for that salary the organization wants points, wants a dominant player. Leafs are not getting that.

Lets hope he turns it around next season, because he does not have a clue on how to be a 7 million dollar player this season.

23 f***ing games qualifies for bust territory now? And that's even with a proven body work in previous seasons.

There really is no point in arguing with folks who already have their mind made up before the discussion even starts.

And some of these folks ARE THE SAME PEOPLE who wanted Komarov back in Toronto despite being a healthy scratch.

I'm sincerely convinced these folks would prefer a 6 Hymans and 6 Komarovs over the forwards we have now.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

23 ****ing games qualifies for bust territory now? And that's even with a proven body work in previous seasons.

There really is no point in arguing with folks who already have their mind made up before the discussion even starts.

And some of these folks ARE THE SAME PEOPLE who wanted Komarov back in Toronto despite being a healthy scratch.

I'm sincerely convinced these folks would prefer a 6 Hymans and 6 Komarovs over the forwards we have now.

I would like to see Nylander's career stats on games where he's not on Matthews wing. It's probably well over 50 games. And the stats are probably pretty revealing.

How big of a sample size is enough?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *gasps for breath HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

6.9 mil for a first line player with more upside is not a burden of a contract whe the cap is 80 mil and rising fast with expansion and increased revenues. He's 22 and already has a proven track record. It's been shown multiple times that his lack of points so far this year is largely a result of playing catch up after signing very late and poor OISH in all situations. People need to stop pretending like advanced stats are nothing and the people using them do so with duplicitous intentions. It's simply arrogant to think the eye test is all you need to evaluate players.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *gasps for breath HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

[IPS]

How big of a sample size is enough?

How about Kuznetsov? His first 100 games in the league were beyond infuriating for Capitals fans. Wild inconsistency, effort levels and overall engagement. Extremely similar to Nylander. (I bring up this example because I was extremely high on Kuzy prior to his draft year and wanted Toronto to draft him so bad). Even after his big breakout season, he still hit a couple blocks in the road.

They gave him time, and he's developed into the player he has today.

I will agree with you on one thing: it's incredibly infuriating arguing with folks who constantly shift the goalposts as you were alluding to earlier in the thread.

But do understand: Nylander's got tons of time left to heat up, it ain't over yet buddeh

 

[socko]

How about Kuznetsov? His first 100 games in the league were beyond infuriating for Capitals fans. Wild inconsistency, effort levels and overall engagement. Extremely similar to Nylander. (I bring up this example because I was extremely high on Kuzy prior to his draft year and wanted Toronto to draft him so bad). Even after his big breakout season, he still hit a couple blocks in the road.

Still seeing him as way more of a Drouin, but with an inflated contract to boot.

 

[rumman]

How about Kuznetsov? His first 100 games in the league were beyond infuriating for Capitals fans. Wild inconsistency, effort levels and overall engagement. Extremely similar to Nylander. (I bring up this example because I was extremely high on Kuzy prior to his draft year and wanted Toronto to draft him so bad). Even after his big breakout season, he still hit a couple blocks in the road.

They gave him time, and he's developed into the player he has today.

I will agree with you on one thing: it's incredibly infuriating arguing with folks who constantly shift the goalposts as you were alluding to earlier in the thread.

But do understand: Nylander's got tons of time left to heat up, it ain't over yet buddeh

didn't Kuznetsov have a 2 year deal at 3 mil a season after his entry contract? That's less than half what the Leafs are paying Nylander.

 

[Trapper]

And like I pointed out, the others are mostly guys whose impact is based on their offensive production as well. He's not being compared to Bergeron.

No I’m going to hold him to Pastrnak standards.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

mocking, not complaining.

Yep. And we’re mocking Nylander and his 3 goal pace over 82. Not complaining...

 

[57 Years No Cup]

No you didn't, Nylander probably earned himself an extra 5-600k per year with his antics and we get a worse player for it all? I don't think so. I don't get why the argument is so hard to follow, Nylander has an amazing opportunity to earn a million+ in endorsements/advertising per year if he works hard (NOT AN OPTION IN OTHER MARKETS) and meanwhile he's squeezing us to try and get "perfect market value.' WELL WHERE IS THE TEAM'S MARKET VALUE IN NYLANDER???? He is paid like a 7 million dollar player and playing like a 2 million dollar player.

Patience is extended to those who deserve it, Nylander is not worthy of patience. We're being patient with a guy who puts himself above the team AFTER he played poorly in the playoffs? You know what? Fine, but how about he comes back with fire? Nope, he comes in fat, taking awful penalties (on pace for more penalties this year than his previous 200 games combined) and producing nothing.

Nylander has literally no one to blame but himself for this outcome:
Awful playoffs, on him.
Holding out, on him.
Not coming in in shape, on him.
Not realizing the amazing opportunity Toronto grants and thus seeking to take them for all they're worth, on him.
Not playing well when he comes back, on him.
Taking tons of penalties and not finishing chances, on him.

We're 1/3 of the way through his season, this isn't 5 games, this isn't 10 games, this isn't even 15 games, this is 25 games, he is literally producing at about Lucic levels per dollar and this is absolutely unacceptable for a 22 year old of his caliber that HELD OUT.

BOOM!

 

[zeke]

Yep. And we’re mocking Nylander and his 3 goal pace over 82. Not complaining...

that;s a whole lotta mocking.

 

[Maplebeasts]

BOOM!

No not boom. It's 25 games. He's had over 160 playing first line level as a rookie and sophomore. Not our fault you guys have the memories of goldfish.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

that;s a whole lotta mocking.

It's not enough mocking.

Our 7 million dollar player is on pace for 3-4 goals over 82, after playing more than a quarter of the season.

Fans should be a lot angrier than they're showing.

Not all of us are like you. We won't all use spin/lies/rhetoric to try and make ourselves feel better about it.

You have a very very long history of overrating leaf teams and players. Wouldn't expect it to end now.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Personally I would be happy with the 60 point Nylander. When I look at Z I do not judge him based on his salary. I only judge him on his play. The difference between the way some look at Nylander and Z is the holdout. It has put Nylander under a magnifying glass and until he finds his game some will continue to call him all sorts of nasty names.

I would be happy with the 60 point Nylander too. But not for 7 million dollars AAV.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

pace yourself. it's gonna be a very long haul.

After July 1 Nylander will be playing somewhere else.

 

[IPS]

It's not enough mocking.

Our 7 million dollar player is on pace for 3-4 goals over 82, after playing more than a quarter of the season.

Fans should be a lot angrier than they're showing.

Not all of us are like you. We won't all use spin/lies/rhetoric to try and make ourselves feel better about it.

You have a very very long history of overrating leaf teams and players. Wouldn't expect it to end now.

I can't agree with your premise but I love seeing you point out the logically fallacious nonsense to defend him.

 

[zeke]

It's not enough mocking.

Our 7 million dollar player is on pace for 3-4 goals over 82, after playing more than a quarter of the season.

Fans should be a lot angrier than they're showing.

Not all of us are like you. We won't all use spin/lies/rhetoric to try and make ourselves feel better about it.

You have a very very long history of overrating leaf teams and players. Wouldn't expect it to end now.

heheh.

your anger definitely means you were complaining, not mocking.

as for who rates this team properly - well, they've embarassed you 3yrs running now. I'm not surprised you need to find something to complain about to make yourself feel better.

 

[Notsince67]

I don't think it's a stretch to say that teams with all their players under good contracts (under the cap) will do better than teams with all their players under bad contracts (under the cap).

Are you saying there is literally no advantage to having players signed for smaller cap percentages?

Sure but bad contracts get signed regardless of tax advantages.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

heheh.

your anger definitely means you were complaining, not mocking.

as for who rates this team properly - well, they've embarassed you 3yrs running now. I'm not surprised you need to find something to complain about to make yourself feel better.

Don't make me go back and bring up the Burke/Nonis years. I have a feeling you really wouldn't like your track record there.

And yes, I wanted the leafs to continue rebuilding two years ago. I knew we would eventually be good with this young core, but I wanted more patience. I wanted another top 5 pick to get an elite defensive prospect (the season after I was told by Backbock to "prepare for pain") would have greatly helped our rebuild. No way to really prove me right or wrong about that.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Sure but bad contracts get signed regardless of tax advantages.

So signing players to far lower cap percentages "isn't an advantage" because "sometimes bad contracts happen anyways." Wow.

Either the tax thing is an excuse. Or it isnt'. But it can't just constantly change based on the argument.