Nylander is getting too much hate, but the love might be returning!

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zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
Next Year:

TOR Top-3F/Top-2D/#1G: $45m
TBL Top-3F/Top-2D/#1G: $45m
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
Do tell where these numbers come from.

Kucherov 9.5
Point ~9.0
Stamkos 8.5
Hedman 7.9
McDonagh 6.8
Vasilevsky 3.5
Total: 45.2

Tavares 11.0
Matthews ~11.0
Marner ~9.0
Rielly 5.0
Andersen 5.0
Muzzin 4.0
Total: 45.0
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
Possibly still more digestible than $13M on the 3rd line on the wings alone though.

well, they have $31m tied up into their next 6 highest paid players, all of them forwards.

leafs have $22m tied up into their next 4 highest players, then add in kappy and johnsson and what, $7-9m? so about the same again. $29-31m on the leafs next 6 highest players too.

the leafs of course have $10.8 of that tied up in players they could easily do without in marleau and zaitsev.

bolts have at least $5.8m they wouldn't miss by dumping callahan....but whoever the 2nd dumpee is would hurt a bit. miller or palat or johnson.
 

BigBlu

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Oct 15, 2013
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Possibly still more digestible than $13M on the 3rd line on the wings alone though.

Holy Smokes that Marleau contract was ill-conceived. Many of us knew it from the beginning. Were they planning to win last year??? This year?? Forgo Matthews or Marner next yearsss??!!?:shakehead
 

LeafFever

Registered User
Feb 12, 2016
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Holy Smokes that Marleau contract was ill-conceived. Many of us knew it from the beginning. Were they planning to win last year??? This year?? Forgo Matthews or Marner next yearsss??!!?:shakehead

That was Lou, who many think is so much better than Dubas.
 

BigBlu

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Oct 15, 2013
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yep, the $10.8m of wasted caphit, Marleau and zaitsev, is all sweet lou.

Don't think Babs wasn't all aboard the MarTrain...

(Finally! A veteran! Less pain!)

(At least the Z contract was a swing for future value. The Marleau move was gazing in the rearview mirror)
 

Ulysses31

Registered User
Oct 7, 2015
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What's a computer?
in hindsight the real shame was not locking up marner for under 9 mil before the season started.

some may argue that may have raised nylanders price but (again in hindsigt) dubas should have let him sit if he didnt agree to a responible contract.
 

Nithoniniel

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Sep 7, 2012
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I shouldn’t expect Nylander to exceed his contract?
Hasn’t the narrative here for the last 6 months been that Nylander is a closer comparable to Pastrnak than Ehlers?
Isn’t the level of cap rising from 75 mil to 79 mil on Pastrnak 6.6 to Nylander 6.9 equivalent?
No, of course you shouldn't expect more. If you buy something that generally gives you a certain return, expecting much more is just begging for disappointment. The expectation for Nylander should be that he does what that contract normally buys. The hope is that he can exceed it.

The Nylander contract is fine when you compare it to Pastrnak's at the point they signed. Pastrnak has since seen a meteoric rise of rare proportions, and setting that as your expectation is unrealistic.

We keep coming back to the same thing here.
 

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
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No, of course you shouldn't expect more. If you buy something that generally gives you a certain return, expecting much more is just begging for disappointment. The expectation for Nylander should be that he does what that contract normally buys. The hope is that he can exceed it.

The Nylander contract is fine when you compare it to Pastrnak's at the point they signed. Pastrnak has since seen a meteoric rise of rare proportions, and setting that as your expectation is unrealistic.

We keep coming back to the same thing here.
And I don’t want to seem like I’m picking only on Nylander.
I love the JT signing but there is no way he is going to exceed 11 million dollars.
The same will hold true for Matthews and Marner.
I’m going to have higher expectations for both these players.
Moving forward, what bar has Marner set to achieve?

This was/is my reservation with committing half the Cap to 4 forwards. At this level, it is virtually impossible to exceed.
And what happens if Marner struggles heavy next year? Or 2 of the 4 struggle? The contracts require us to at least break even on the player.

Most likely Boston constantly has Marchand/Pastrnak exceeding.

And that’s just regular season. We’ve yet to see 3rd and 4th gear from players that will be taking the load. And taking up depth. Less and less space for a Kappy/Gardiner/Kadri on next contracts.
 
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Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
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Skövde, Sweden
And I don’t want to seem like I’m picking only on Nylander.
I love the JT signing but there is no way he is going to exceed 11 million dollars.
The same will hold true for Matthews and Marner.
I’m going to have higher expectations for both these players.
Moving forward, what bar has Marner set to achieve?

This was/is my reservation with committing half the Cap to 4 forwards. At this level, it is virtually impossible to exceed.
And what happens if Marner struggles heavy next year? Or 2 of the 4 struggle? The contracts require us to at least break even on the player.

Most likely Boston constantly has Marchand/Pastrnak exceeding.

And that’s just regular season. We’ve yet to see 3rd and 4th gear from players that will be taking the load. And taking up depth. Less and less space for a Kappy/Gardiner/Kadri on next contracts.
Ah, I get your point. Yeah, the best way to be a strong contender for a long time is to have players who greatly exceed the contracts they signed. Just look at what Rielly and Kadri does for us. I think we're setting ourselves up as a team where our core is highly and appropriately paid, and we are looking at any opportunity we can to exceed cap value in the rest of the lineup.
 

RLF

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May 5, 2014
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And I don’t want to seem like I’m picking only on Nylander.
I love the JT signing but there is no way he is going to exceed 11 million dollars.
The same will hold true for Matthews and Marner.
I’m going to have higher expectations for both these players.
Moving forward, what bar has Marner set to achieve?

This was/is my reservation with committing half the Cap to 4 forwards. At this level, it is virtually impossible to exceed.
And what happens if Marner struggles heavy next year? Or 2 of the 4 struggle? The contracts require us to at least break even on the player.

Most likely Boston constantly has Marchand/Pastrnak exceeding.

And that’s just regular season. We’ve yet to see 3rd and 4th gear from players that will be taking the load. And taking up depth. Less and less space for a Kappy/Gardiner/Kadri on next contracts.

Totally agree. Here is the biggest issue I have with Nylander debates on play and contract and I would say the same thing no matter who the player (Matthews, Marner etc).

Re-Play.

He isn't producing-Reasons-well his stats say he will and that he has been playing well. we should have expected this from missing camp and start of season. He will produce any day now (since about game 10).
Responses to above-
Not all his stats say he is playing well - Ignored.
Other players have come off longer layoffs and even injuries and produced - Ignored, not the same thing.
He didn't look ready when he came back - Not true.
He's been held pointless 19 of 23 games-Doesn't matter, stats say he is playing well and who cares as long as he plays well in the playoffs.
He isn't engaging and doesn't look like he is competing hard-Not true and shouldn't expect him to take a hit or throw one to win a battle because he isn't that type of player.

Don't see lesser talented guys like Hyman, Brown, Goat etc get this kind of support from the same posters and they aren't paid to, or have the same talent to produce.

Re-Contract.

Before he signed and once signed before 1st game-He is worth as much as Pasta and more than Larkin etc. His back to back 61 pt seasons at his age are rare. You don't just pay for what he has done, you pay for future as well and his contract will be a bargain for the last 3-4 years because his production will increase.

He comes back and doesn't produce.
Reasons why contract still good-Well you shouldn't expect more from him. He was signed for what he is and what he has done, so if he produces close to that, that is what we should expect. He is paid fairly. This season doesn't matter. Pasta etc has just over-produced so that is not a fair comparison.

Sooooo - He doesn't have to produce this year as long as he does in the playoffs (I am sure there will be a new supportive narrative if he doesn't). We shouldn't expect improvement even though it was argued his contract is also based on future production. It doesn't matter if the comparable all improve their game, they are just over-achieving which isn't Willy's fault (Quite the change from how Willy out-performed them at a younger age so deserved as much or more). We also shouldn't expect him to compete harder in other ways when he isn't producing (He just isn't that kind of player).

If we are not paying for production now or better production in the future or a more complete game when not producing...what are we paying $7M for?
 
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HamiltonNHL

Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
Jan 4, 2012
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upload_2019-2-4_9-29-15.png


23 games one goal. what a shit show.
 

HamiltonNHL

Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
Jan 4, 2012
20,128
10,637
only minus players on the team.

upload_2019-2-4_9-31-5.png


Elite territory but not in the right direction.
 
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