Nylander Discussion

[Martin Skoula]

I think the very obvious common thread over the years is that people don't appreciate 'possession' players. Nazem Kadri, Jake Gardiner and William Nylander are players that should be recognized for their top-notch possession play. When they're not producing points, they're still playing a strong possession game that results in their linemates getting scoring chances. This is clearly illustrated in the advanced stats too.

People love to harp on 'zone entries' and 'zone exits' being bull****, but do people actually realize how important it is? I don't think so.

It's insane to me. People will watch Hyman chase the puck in his own zone, fight for it, and fail to clear it. They'll call that great defensive hustle. Then they'll watch Nylander wait 2 feet away from a 4-man board battle as the easy outlet pass, take it, and skate the puck in for a scoring chance. They'll call him lazy and bad defensively.

 

[Notsince67]

Marner and Tavares have been bad defensively this year. Their point totals are fine, but they are getting scored on more frequently, so it doesn't really matter.

Defense and goaltending have been the number 1 reason for bad defense this year. Kind of disingenuous to ignore Matthews line defenensive play when the elephant in the room is that Matthews has started in the ozone more than 60% this whole year. Marners struggles has been his own giveaways when unable to find chemistry with his own linemates. His defensive struggles is just untrue. He has been quite good as one would expect given his league leading takeaways.

 

[Jojalu]

Defense and goaltending have been the number 1 reason for bad defense this year. Kind of disingenuous to ignore Matthews line defenensive play when the elephant in the room is that Matthews has started in the ozone more than 60% this whole year. Marners struggles has been his own giveaways when unable to find chemistry with his own linemates. His defensive struggles is just untrue. He has been quite good as one would expect given his league leading takeaways.

I agree with you that Marner has not been the tire fire that a lot of people have suddenly taken on as a narrative, nor do I believe Nylander is as bad defensively as most would say. Marner's giveaways seem like a result of him pressing too hard as it hasn't come easy yet this year, while Nylander is pressing to erase the disaster that was last year.

What perplexes me the most is why can there not be room for both to be good players, with right now Marner being ahead based on a complete game. It benefits all Leaf fans if both of them play to their ceiling.

 

[Peasy]

Defense and goaltending have been the number 1 reason for bad defense this year. Kind of disingenuous to ignore Matthews line defenensive play when the elephant in the room is that Matthews has started in the ozone more than 60% this whole year. Marners struggles has been his own giveaways when unable to find chemistry with his own linemates. His defensive struggles is just untrue. He has been quite good as one would expect given his league leading takeaways.

Nice straw man.

It's funny that people say fans of Nylander can't take it when people give him criticism yet you're over here defending your heart out anytime anyone mentions Marner in a slightly negative light because he can do no wrong. In a nylander thread at that.

 

[ER89]

every player on this team gets called out when they play poorly, if you read the live game day threads you'd know this.

To my knowledge there is only 1 player on the Leafs that is apparently above criticism and that's Nylander, the incessant defending of said player by his cult of fanboys is the real problem, and the more whining about Willy being treated unfairly will only lead to more criticism of his game when he doesn't play well.

Do you refresh every two seconds to see which poster defends nylander so you can type a retort? And no nylander isn't above criticism but folks like you criticize him even when he does play well. Open your god damn eyes instead of your mouth and maybe you'll learn something.

 

[BAM]

Do you refresh every two seconds to see which poster defends nylander so you can type a retort? And no nylander isn't above criticism but folks like you criticize him even when he does play well. Open your god damn eyes instead of your mouth and maybe you'll learn something.

Most of those folk love their good old Ontario boy Marner.

I'll tell you what, Nylander keeps on producing like this, Marner has to get moved for more balance in the roster.

 

[ACC1224]

Extreme opinions???? I know Nithoniniel can defend himself but this is just not true. He is one of the more levelheaded here on HF.

No, no...'some' as in others...wasn't referring to @Nithoniniel at all....I can see how that wasn't clear.

 

[MyBudJT]

Seems to me like he is for the most part.
You'll always have some extreme opinions but that goes for pretty much every player/management with the team.

You know you're biased when you start thinking that commentators, coaches and half the fanbase hates a player...

 

[TheProspector]

For sure. It is definitely shaping up to be Willies year over Matthews. Matthews 3rd in the league in goals with 13 and 6th in the league in points with 25.

Nylander will be lucky to hit 25 goals and Matthews will be in the hunt for the Rocket.

When you're the 3rd highest paid player in the league, and you only took a 5 year deal -- which will end up putting you well above both the guys slightly ahead of you over the terms of their contracts -- you'd better be 3rd in league goals.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Defense and goaltending have been the number 1 reason for bad defense this year. Kind of disingenuous to ignore Matthews line defenensive play when the elephant in the room is that Matthews has started in the ozone more than 60% this whole year. Marners struggles has been his own giveaways when unable to find chemistry with his own linemates. His defensive struggles is just untrue. He has been quite good as one would expect given his league leading takeaways.

Matthews, Nylander and Johnsson have generally crushed the opposition in terms of scoring chances, expected goals and possession. The zone starts definitely inflate those stats a bit, but they're objectively playing well at both ends of the ice.

Playing defense isn't just winning board battles and blocking shots. It's also positioning and getting the puck out of the zone efficiently. Matthews and Nylander need work on the former for sure, but they excel at the latter. Too many people weigh the former a lot more than the latter, but that's just not capturing the full picture of "defense".

 

[Trapper]

Don’t hate the player, hate the build.
It’s the build, not Nylander that is the issue.

The team is top heavy. 40 million tied up in 4 forwards who are one kind of offensive player mostly. Not great defensively and no heavy aspect to the game.

That leaves a huge drop off in terms of team, injuries, compensating when the game changes styles and money for other key positions lacking.

 

[Notsince67]

I agree with you that Marner has not been the tire fire that a lot of people have suddenly taken on as a narrative, nor do I believe Nylander is as bad defensively as most would say. Marner's giveaways seem like a result of him pressing too hard as it hasn't come easy yet this year, while Nylander is pressing to erase the disaster that was last year.

What perplexes me the most is why can there not be room for both to be good players, with right now Marner being ahead based on a complete game. It benefits all Leaf fans if both of them play to their ceiling.

I have said on more than one occasion that the team needs Nylander to be good. Im ok with people criticising aspects of a game or the performance of a game. To pretend though that the future hope of this team doesnt hinge on all of our players is just dumb. From Matthews all the way down to Barrie

 

[Duffman955]

I think Nylander and Matthew's have been our best players so far this season.

He still has another gear. Hopefully he unlocks it this year.

 

[Notsince67]

Nice straw man.

It's funny that people say fans of Nylander can't take it when people give him criticism yet you're over here defending your heart out anytime anyone mentions Marner in a slightly negative light because he can do no wrong. In a nylander thread at that.

What straw man? Much of what this team does or doesnt do is situational. To say that Marner plays poor defense when he so clearly has a prominent role in playing it is stupid. Matthews together with Nylander are deployed on the offensive side of the rink. You would never see them playing a pk. This is because Marner is just better at defensive hockey.

 

[Notsince67]

Matthews, Nylander and Johnsson have generally crushed the opposition in terms of scoring chances, expected goals and possession. The zone starts definitely inflate those stats a bit, but they're objectively playing well at both ends of the ice.

Playing defense isn't just winning board battles and blocking shots. It's also positioning and getting the puck out of the zone efficiently. Matthews and Nylander need work on the former for sure, but they excel at the latter. Too many people weigh the former a lot more than the latter, but that's just not capturing the full picture of "defense".

I didnt mean to imply that they sucked. Only that the situational deployment limits their ability to contribute to a defensive game except for the transitions of the opposing team.

 

[egd27]

It's insane to me. People will watch Hyman chase the puck in his own zone, fight for it, and fail to clear it. They'll call that great defensive hustle. Then they'll watch Nylander wait 2 feet away from a 4-man board battle as the easy outlet pass, take it, and skate the puck in for a scoring chance. They'll call him lazy and bad defensively.

Good thing there's a couple of guys willing to engage to make it a 4-man board battle. Without them, there's no easy outlet for Nylander to scoop up.

 

[NoName]

Weird how this thread is so active. Nylander seems to be playing fine currently: 7 goals, 15 points (in 19 games) and 3+2 in his last five.

Also looks fine on the eye-test the last few games; him an Matthews look like the most dangerous duo on the team rn.

 

[Trapper]

Weird how this thread is so active. Nylander seems to be playing fine currently: 7 goals, 15 points (in 19 games) and 3+2 in his last five.

Also looks fine on the eye-test the last few games; him an Matthews look like the most dangerous duo on the team rn.

But yet the team is suffering.
Not because of them, but because the money is squished into just a few. That leaves obstacles unable to overcome.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Weird how this thread is so active. Nylander seems to be playing fine currently: 7 goals, 15 points (in 19 games) and 3+2 in his last five.

Also looks fine on the eye-test the last few games; him an Matthews look like the most dangerous duo on the team rn.

Objectively Nylander has been our most consistent and dangerous forward all year.

 

[GoonieFace]

Weird how this thread is so active. Nylander seems to be playing fine currently: 7 goals, 15 points (in 19 games) and 3+2 in his last five.

Also looks fine on the eye-test the last few games; him an Matthews look like the most dangerous duo on the team rn.

And this is Nylander is a nutshell. Full of talent, has great spurts, than disappears for games on end. Consistency is all that we ask for, and hopefully he is starting to turn the corner.

 

[NoName]

But yet the team is suffering.
Not because of them, but because the money is squished into just a few. That leaves obstacles unable to overcome.

Yeah, but it seems most of these guys are living up to their contracts. Matthews is on a 100+point pace and is 4th in the league in goals. Nylander is on like a 65 point pace. Marner and Tavares are/have been injured so jury is still out but Toronto's big ticket forwards haven't been the problem so far.


Bluntly, if you look at our games there has been exactly one massive reason the Leafs have struggled so far this season: Back-up goaltending has been our death (we are 0-4-1 on the second half of back-to backs). That is one point in five games with Hutch out there. One point.

Freddy is 9-2-3 by contrast.

 

[ACC1224]

Weird how this thread is so active. Nylander seems to be playing fine currently: 7 goals, 15 points (in 19 games) and 3+2 in his last five.

Also looks fine on the eye-test the last few games; him an Matthews look like the most dangerous duo on the team rn.

Yep, just needs to bring this every night and people will over look his faults.

 

[DavePoulin4PM]

Next 4 games: @NYI, vs BOS, @pit, @VGK.

The fraud is about to go on a disappearing act. Bottom feeding time is over for a bit.

 

[Trapper]

Yeah, but it seems most of these guys are living up to their contracts. Matthews is on a 100+point pace and is 4th in the league in goals. Nylander is on like a 65 point pace. Marner and Tavares are/have been injured so jury is still out but Toronto's big ticket forwards haven't been the problem so far.


Bluntly, if you look at our games there has been exactly one massive reason the Leafs have struggled so far this season: Back-up goaltending has been our death (we are 0-4-1 on the second half of back-to backs). That is one point in five games with Hutch out there. One point.

Freddy is 9-2-3 by contrast.

Freddy is but he’s had to be Price stellar.
People say he had a bad October but it really was one Tampa blowout. He wasn’t that bad. Just not the level of excellence that fans require to make up the shortcomings. Like how the Habs were when Price was God mode a few years. Then he became good, not God mode and things were exposed.

Andersen hides a lot.

 

[stickty111]