Speculation: Nylander Contract Discussion IV

[613Leafer]

If ehler’s agent didn’t account for the cap going up to the ballpark of 80 mil, he should be fired...

We are not trying to screw anyone over... it’s about doing what is right for the club...

Yea, I don't understand how so many people don't get this. There have been two seasons in which the salary cap went down or barely moved, and those were after the CBA was renegotiated which reduced player's share of revenue, and immediately after the 2008 financial crisis (i.e. very predictable/obvious reasons). The other ~10 years have seen the cap rise by ~2-6M.

Last Fall, it was projected to go up to 78-82M, it went up to 79.5M (i.e. the slightly below the average of the projected range, and thus very much what would have been used as an estimate while negotiating contracts).

Ehlers contract, despite being signed last Fall, kicks in this year. Same as Nylander's. Sure, they didn't 100% know the exact dollar limit of the salary cap, but they obviously knew it was going somewhere in this range. Ehlers 6M caphit IS representative of an estimate for what this years salary cap is, it is NOT representative of last years salary cap which wasn't a year in which his contract would apply.

Ehlers contract remains the best comparable to Nylander's, and there shouldn't be any "rising salary cap" bonus to Nylander. The rising salary cap absolutely would have been part of his negotiation process.

 

[MyBudJT]

Yea, I don't understand how so many people don't get this. There have been two seasons in which the salary cap went down or barely moved, and those were after the CBA was renegotiated which reduced player's share of revenue, and immediately after the 2008 financial crisis (i.e. very predictable/obvious reasons). The other ~10 years have seen the cap rise by ~2-6M.

Last Fall, it was projected to go up to 78-82M, it went up to 80M (i.e. the average of the projected range, and thus the most likely number that would have been used while negotiating contracts).

Ehlers contract, despite being signed last Fall, kicks in this year. Same as Nylander's. Sure, they didn't 100% know the exact dollar limit of the salary cap, but they obviously knew it was going somewhere in this range. Ehlers 6M caphit IS representative of an estimate for what this years salary cap is, it is NOT representative of last years salary cap which wasn't a year in which his contract would apply.

Ehlers contract remains the best comparable to Nylander's, and there shouldn't be any "rising salary cap" bonus to Nylander. The rising salary cap absolutely would have been part of his negotiation process.

Agreed. Only thing is that wpg had more risk signing Ehlers a year early. With that in mind, 8x6.25 seems appropriate.

 

[Trapper]

You say cap inflation but then totally disregard cap inflation.

That 6.25 is more like 6.8 for 6 years with the cap increase.

I disregarded nothing.
Ehlers makes 6 mil/year. He signed last year.
He will make 6 mil next year and the years after. He’s not getting a new contract because the cap goes up.
I just gave the same player 300K more for signing a year later. And will earn 300K more than Ehlers for the 6 year life of the contract. If they remain the same player, one is making 1.8 million more over the life of it.

 

[Kiwi]

If ehler’s agent didn’t account for the cap going up to the ballpark of 80 mil, he should be fired...

We are not trying to screw anyone over... it’s about doing what is right for the club...

Ehlers opted for security, he protected himself in case of injuries but that has the risk of the cap jumping and getting underpaid, which it did

Nylander took the injury risk and has the good fortune that the cap has gone up, it is what it is and it's not his fault, it's ours for not signing him last off-season like Winnipeg with Ehlers

No. No we are not screwing him over we are placing him with in our teams salary structure.

Why the hell should he care? He didn't sign Tavares at 11M so why the hell should he be underpaid because of it?

That's the Leafs problem not his, if we can't afford him at a fair cap hit for both sides and this negotiation turns to **** it's not his fault, that's on us

 

[Peiskos]

Getting to UFA asap doesn't mean he wants to walk away, it's just the best financial position he can put himself in. You'd be stupid not to want to have control over your highest paid years as soon as possible.

An argument sure, but you'd also be stupid to not want to have any remote chance at a cup by hampering your team with a bloated salary demand. I've said it so many times, too many players care more about money than the Stanley Cup and that is wrong, its pathetic really. 6 million per year vs 8 million per year, ooh! ahh!...totally going to make or break Nylander's ability to live a life of luxury in this city for the next decade. He's coming off as a real selfish entitled POS right now tbh, that's just my opinion but whatever.

 

[MyBudJT]

Why the hell should he care? He didn't sign Tavares at 11M so why the hell should he be underpaid because of it?

That's the Leafs problem not his, if we can't afford him at a fair cap hit for both sides and this negotiation turns to **** it's not his fault, that's on us

Like it or not, Nylander has little leverage, and no other team will be offering him what he truly wants... . There is only one team in demand for Nylander’s services due to him being an RFA... he either takes what we offer, or sit at home not making nearly as much money...

6.25 mil cap hit long term is more than fair for Nylander...

 

[Martin Skoula]

An argument sure, but you'd also be stupid to not want to have any remote chance at a cup by hampering your team with a bloated salary demand. I've said it so many times, too many players care more about money than the Stanley Cup and that is wrong, its pathetic really. 6 million per year vs 8 million per year, ooh! ahh!...totally going to make or break Nylander's ability to live a life of luxury in this city for the next decade.

I think the best balance for both parties is for Nylander to take a discount on a 5 year deal for our main competitive window (Tavares + Matthews overlapping primes) and then re-evaluate the relationship after this core gets battle tested.

 

[Kiwi]

Like it or not, Nylander has little leverage, and no other team will be offering him what he truly wants... . There is only one team in demand for Nylander’s services due to him being an RFA... he either takes what we offer, or sit at home not making nearly as much money...

6.25 mil cap hit long term is more than fair for Nylander...

He has some, Trouba has shown what you can do if your willing to take the "nuclear option" and force management's hand

6.25M × 8 is rediculous and that will give him a reason to dig in and force his way out, 6.25M × 6 is pretty low as is but over 8 years he's getting screwed and should stay in Sweden

 

[Morgs]

I think the best balance for both parties is for Nylander to take a discount on a 5 year deal for our main competitive window (Tavares + Matthews overlapping primes) and then re-evaluate the relationship after this core gets battle tested.

So we buy exactly 0 FA years? Literally worst case scenario is 5 years.

 

[Kiwi]

So we buy exactly 0 FA years? Literally worst case scenario is 5 years.

Bridge for 2-3 years or 6 years plus
Anything else doesn't make a lot of sense (the bridge is as well imo)

 

[BertCorbeau]

So we buy exactly 0 FA years? Literally worst case scenario is 5 years.

Depends on the price.

 

[Morgs]

Depends on the price.

Disagree. 5 years should not even be a conversation.

 

[Menzinger]

He has some, Trouba has shown what you can do if your willing to take the "nuclear option" and force management's hand

6.25M × 8 is rediculous and that will give him a reason to dig in and force his way out, 6.25M × 6 is pretty low as is but over 8 years he's getting screwed and should stay in Sweden

Yeah, the Trouba case is why a it’s better to find a reasonable compromise than to be unflinching in terms of demands.

6.25 if that is in fact the offer is definitely too little from the Leafs if they want an 8 year deal. 6-7 years would more reasonable at that price range.

I’d still say no reason to be concerned yet. Some deal will be reached that’ll be fine with both sides

 

[hotpaws]

You seems to have missed our teams pay structure go and look at every teams 5th most important forward and see what their cap hit is and see for your self. Go continue posting nonsense.

He is our second best RW and is our 5th most important forward and we are will to give him a lot of security and money with I would bet a structured contract that takes advantage of our tax laws to allow Nylander to make the most out of his salary. Yet you think Willy is asking for a trade when Dubas explains to him the Teams salary structure.

Dubas said he had that conversation with him already. He has sat down with Gardiner, Mathews and Marner as well telling them his vision moving forward and explaining our salary structure and goals and how we are going to get there.

Nylander is not stupid he can see the writing on the wall if he insist on getting paid a lot more then were he slots in. Dubas know he needs to stick to his guns or else one of our top wingers will not likely be here if he caves in.

Dubas or Shanny have never said publicly nor has it been reported that he told Willie he was our 5th most important frwd and he will base his salary on that . That's just something you made up.

Dubas and Shanny have both said repeatedly they want to build a team where players will take less to play for . That in recent days changed slightly to them saying they'd like players to not demand the very top of the pay range to keep the team together which isn't really any different in reality since it seems they still want the players to play for sub market contracts but it sounds better for public consumption.

Nothings been reported on what's being offered/asked for and the only information that's come out is the repeated message from the team about signing for less than the comparable's , so you can rag on Willie all you want but you have no facts to base your anger on.

I'll repeat again that you believe these players are the teams chattel and should meekly sit there and accept whatever is demanded of them . Unfortunately for you this isn't the 60's where mgmt threatens to bury them in the minors if they dare utter a peep.

I'll also just add that the people ragging on Willie when we have no idea what's happening in negotiations and want him to sign a long term team friendly sub market contract so we have a better chance to win would be the same people who would be defending Dubas if he turned around and traded him a year later . They'd be saying Dubes num 1 priority is to improve the team and Willie and his agent should have known this and no one put a gun to his head to sign cheap so he shouldn't start crying now about the lack of loyalty because trades are part of the game , Gretz was even traded yada yada yada.

 

[Eb]

I disregarded nothing.
Ehlers makes 6 mil/year. He signed last year.
He will make 6 mil next year and the years after. He’s not getting a new contract because the cap goes up.
I just gave the same player 300K more for signing a year later. And will earn 300K more than Ehlers for the 6 year life of the contract. If they remain the same player, one is making 1.8 million more over the life of it.

You’re out to lunch. Nylander deserves more than 6.25 for 6 years, sorry to say.

 

[Kiwi]

Yeah, the Trouba case is why a it’s better to find a reasonable compromise than to be unflinching in terms of demands.

6.25 if that is in fact the offer is definitely too little from the Leafs if they want an 8 year deal. 6-7 years would more reasonable at that price range.

I’d still say no reason to be concerned yet. Some deal will be reached that’ll be fine with both sides

Yeah I think we'll get a deal that works for everybody at the end of the day

There's nothing wrong with slow walking this from a team perspective but if were lowballing him badly I don't think it's a good look, then Nylander will dig in

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Ehlers opted for security, he protected himself in case of injuries but that has the risk of the cap jumping and getting underpaid, which it did

Nylander took the injury risk and has the good fortune that the cap has gone up, it is what it is and it's not his fault, it's ours for not signing him last off-season like Winnipeg with Ehlers



Why the hell should he care? He didn't sign Tavares at 11M so why the hell should he be underpaid because of it?

That's the Leafs problem not his, if we can't afford him at a fair cap hit for both sides and this negotiation turns to **** it's not his fault, that's on us

The Leafs problems kind of inherently become his problems when he is negotiating a contract with the Leafs I would think though.

 

[Trapper]

You’re out to lunch. Nylander deserves more than 6.25 for 6 years, sorry to say.

Based on what?
How much do you want to pay him?
He’s not better than Pastrnak at 6.6.
If anyone is having trouble eating lunch...

 

[jrgtml67]

So I guess that nylander on a plane was a joke again?

Secondly..I dont get why the debate still over bridge and long term? Dubas said they were discussing LT, and I believe this is why it's taking so long. I feel like we will see a Tavares type structure. Heavy on guaranteed $ and lockout protected

 

[MyBudJT]

Anyone else find these friendly debates a little disturbing when the opposing posters need to make statements like ‘you’re out to lunch’ or ‘you’re crazy if you think...’... I mean, can you not respect differing opinions in a rebuttal?

Makes this forum environment seem uninviting and unfriendly

 

[hotpaws]

Based on what?
How much do you want to pay him?
He’s not better than Pastrnak at 6.6.
If anyone is having trouble eating lunch...

how do you think Willie would look/produce on a line with Bergeron/Marchand instead of Mathews/10 thumbs ?

 

[hotpaws]

Makes this forum environment seem uninviting and unfriendly

don't worry , i've been on this forum for 10 yrs and haven't been bitten yet

 

[Ratboy]

Anyone else find these friendly debates a little disturbing when the opposing posters need to make statements like ‘you’re out to lunch’ or ‘you’re crazy if you think...’... I mean, can you not respect differing opinions in a rebuttal?

Makes this forum environment seem uninviting and unfriendly

People dont really respect eachother around here. it sucks but its all ego. we're all human and we're all capable of being wrong. it would be nice if some could admit that, but it is what it is.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I do hope we sign Nylander before Reinhart. Something tells me Buffalo will screw that one up

 

[diceman934]

Ehlers opted for security, he protected himself in case of injuries but that has the risk of the cap jumping and getting underpaid, which it did

Nylander took the injury risk and has the good fortune that the cap has gone up, it is what it is and it's not his fault, it's ours for not signing him last off-season like Winnipeg with Ehlers



Why the hell should he care? He didn't sign Tavares at 11M so why the hell should he be underpaid because of it?

That's the Leafs problem not his, if we can't afford him at a fair cap hit for both sides and this negotiation turns to **** it's not his fault, that's on us

Reading is an issue or not being able to conceptualizer what I said. It happens on all teams and has nothing to do with JT. Nylander slots in as our 5th most important player yet they will pay him more then our 4th because he signed earlier and took a discount. Nylander is not being offered a low ball contract if the numbers being discussed are true. It is right in line with his comparable and slots him in with in our internal cap structure. Marner will slot in above him as will Mathews.