Speculation: Nylander Contract Discussion IV

[freshwind]

having read every post through this negotiation, there is a point that I think is being missed in it all.
where willie is ranked in the fans' minds means nothing... the leafs' management's position is the only one that counts
biasy claim - i am a big willie fan and think he is under rated here - again, only my opinion and not worth anything
the only way willie controls any bit of his future is a bridge ... and here is my rationale - say he signs a team friendly deal at 6.25 for 8 ... great deal from the leafs perspective, but he has no trade protection for years, he could be shipped to any hell hole after signing a team friendly deal and burn away his prime ... sign a 3 year bridge ... everyone knows the lay of the land by then and he has some control, leafs have some control... everyone can win....

 

[therealkoho]

That's just it. If Dubas is offering below what Nylander's comparables are, then Nylander would be a fool to sign. Even using his comparables it would be a heck of a great contract and make him trade bait.

As for Dubas, he's using the media to pressure Nylander to sign by hoping the fans get involved (through social media). We actually don't know what numbers are being thrown around. Like I posted earlier, Dubas could be low balling instead of using comparables.

where does it say the offer is below comparables? Pro tip, it doesn't!

he's the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs, he has good people around him, if he was an idiot he would have never made it out of the Sault, If Nylander was on the block he'd already be gone, if he underperforms the contract then he'll be gone, if he over performs it then that's good for the Leafs, Dubas is not going to over pay this guy not on this contract and not on the next one, what he is going to do is try to get Nylander a fair deal for all parties

Marv Levy once said, "the minute you start listening to the fans is the moment you'll be sitting with them," this is not a high complexity thought and is still the rule of thumb for people in the sports business

 

[Mikeyg]

He might very well be the stupidest NHL player in recent memory to want to walk away from the Leafs considering the team is entering a new era of being a relevant contender.

Buddy theres guys in the league that prefer to sit out and be scratched, theres guys who only play for money, then theres the few who play for the game itself.

 

[Martin Skoula]

He might very well be the stupidest NHL player in recent memory to want to walk away from the Leafs considering the team is entering a new era of being a relevant contender.

Getting to UFA asap doesn't mean he wants to walk away, it's just the best financial position he can put himself in. You'd be stupid not to want to have control over your highest paid years as soon as possible.

 

[therealkoho]

But the point is fair that fans shouldn’t expect players to feel the same way about contracts.

It is a business, MLSE makes an awful lot of money off the backs of players like Nylander, and players have agents so they don’t get exploited/taken advantage of.

It’s fans who shouldn’t take these negotiations so personal

and some fans should get it through their thick skulls that what they think or say on social media has zero effect on how a professional organization is run...not saying you so don't take it that way

Don’t forget Eichel either. He’s a good player but he did nothing to deserve 10M.

No wonder those franchises are still in the basement.

Patience wins. This team is good to win even without Nylander. I don’t think it will come to a point where he is missing games but even if he does, he will lose a lot for it and blame his agent at the end of the day.

that was all Pegula's doing, and it fricked up the market, just as Katz through Chiapet did it in Edmonton with both McJesus(debateable I know) and Draisatl(no question)

 

[A1LeafNation]

If I was Dubas I'd put a 6.5 * 7 year offer on the table and leave it on the table until Nov 15. After that I would reevaluate if I need to trade him or not.

Leafs are a contender with or without him. Nylander is the one who loves to play and play with his teammates and needs the paycheck as well as needs to be playing.

 

[MyBudJT]

and some fans should get it through their thick skulls that what they think or say on social media has zero effect on how a professional organization is run...not saying you so don't take it that way



that was all Pegula's doing, and it fricked up the market, just as Katz through Chiapet did it in Edmonton with both McJesus(debateable I know) and Draisatl(no question)

In the eyes of the media, sure... I don’t think our management will fall in that trap though! Eichel is overpaid, which is an argument our management will hopefully use!

If it were me, I’d offer:

WN: 8yrsx6.25
MM: 6yrsx7
AM: 8yrsx10
JG: 8yrsx6

 

[therealkoho]

In the eyes of the media, sure... I don’t think our management will fall in that trap though! Eichel is overpaid, which is an argument our management will hopefully use!

If it were me, I’d offer:

WN: 8yrsx6.25
MM: 6yrsx7
AM: 8yrsx10
JG: 8yrsx6

it's funny that folks used to say Eichel or Matty

Eichel is real good but Matty has something extra

I think the new thing should be Eichel or Marner

WN 6X6.4

MM 6X8(which is what Eichels money should've been)

AM 8x10.5

JG 5X6

 

[Kiwi]

In the eyes of the media, sure... I don’t think our management will fall in that trap though! Eichel is overpaid, which is an argument our management will hopefully use!

If it were me, I’d offer:

WN: 8yrsx6.25
MM: 6yrsx7
AM: 8yrsx10
JG: 8yrsx6

And if I was Nylander I'd tell you to **** off

He'd be out of his mind to sign an 8 year 6.25M AAV contract

 

[MyBudJT]

And if I was Nylander I'd tell you to **** off

He'd be out of his mind to sign an 8 year 6.25M AAV contract

LOL.

Ehlers is the best comp, both set to be RFAs the same year, and Ehlers has produced slightly more so far...

Ehlers makes 6...

Nylander has no leverage, we NEED to take advantage of that! Could he make more on another club? Sure... but such is life...

I could make more at another company, but for now, I’m happy where I am at, and think it’ll be best in the long run...

 

[paulhiggins]

...4) Pastrnak is a decent comparable for Nylander. Nylander could have hit 70 points with 1:18 minutes more per game. To add on, Pastrnak played with better players.

From what I've seen, Pastrnak is a lot better then Nylander.

 

[Trapper]

From what I've seen, Pastrnak is a lot better then Nylander.

At present I agree.
Pastrnak is a better goal scorer and that usually makes a forward more money.
Back to back 30+ goal seasons for Pastrnak.

We refer to Willy as a 60 point player.
JVR and Patches are also 60 point players but they are referred to as 30 goal scores.

Ehlers is 6. Pastrnak 6.6.
Nylander (with cap inflation) should fall in the middle. He’s really comparable to Ehlers and both are a step behind Pastrnak.
A Marleau salary replacement at 6.25-6.3. I wouldn’t go higher.

 

[diceman934]

If this was Eichel he'd tell Dubie to go **** himself and either pay him or trade him .

And if Dubie told Willie this I'm sure he'd ask for a trade as well .

The problem is you're still living in the 60's where players were treated like mindless sheep .

You seems to have missed our teams pay structure go and look at every teams 5th most important forward and see what their cap hit is and see for your self. Go continue posting nonsense.

He is our second best RW and is our 5th most important forward and we are will to give him a lot of security and money with I would bet a structured contract that takes advantage of our tax laws to allow Nylander to make the most out of his salary. Yet you think Willy is asking for a trade when Dubas explains to him the Teams salary structure.

Dubas said he had that conversation with him already. He has sat down with Gardiner, Mathews and Marner as well telling them his vision moving forward and explaining our salary structure and goals and how we are going to get there.

Nylander is not stupid he can see the writing on the wall if he insist on getting paid a lot more then were he slots in. Dubas know he needs to stick to his guns or else one of our top wingers will not likely be here if he caves in.

 

[Kiwi]

LOL.

Ehlers is the best comp, both set to be RFAs the same year, and Ehlers has produced slightly more so far...

Ehlers makes 6...

Nylander has no leverage, we NEED to take advantage of that! Could he make more on another club? Sure... but such is life...

I could make more at another company, but for now, I’m happy where I am at, and think it’ll be best in the long run...

Ehlers signed for 7 years and the cap has gone up since he signed, I could see Nylander doing 6.25-6.5 for 6 years but no way can I see him signing at that AAV for 8 years

He may not have much leverage but he's going to sit for as long as he has to if we try to screw him over and 6.25M over 8 is screwing him over

 

[MyBudJT]

Ehlers signed for 7 years and the cap has gone up since he signed, I could see Nylander doing 6.25-6.5 for 6 years but no way can I see him signing at that AAV for 8 years

He may not have much leverage but he's going to sit for as long as he has to if we try to screw him over and 6.25M over 8 is screwing him over

If ehler’s agent didn’t account for the cap going up to the ballpark of 80 mil, he should be fired...

We are not trying to screw anyone over... it’s about doing what is right for the club...

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

As long as he's signed before October 3 it's fine, if not Dubas needs to explain why it's not done because at this point it's almost like Dubas signed Tavares and went "I'm done."

it's time to get this done

 

[diceman934]

Getting to UFA asap doesn't mean he wants to walk away, it's just the best financial position he can put himself in. You'd be stupid not to want to have control over your highest paid years as soon as possible.

If you think Dubas will sign him to a 5 year deal right now when we hold all the cards you are wrong.
So get over that thought and understand stand that we are dictating the terms and it is what any smart GM will do.

 

[diceman934]

Ehlers signed for 7 years and the cap has gone up since he signed, I could see Nylander doing 6.25-6.5 for 6 years but no way can I see him signing at that AAV for 8 years

He may not have much leverage but he's going to sit for as long as he has to if we try to screw him over and 6.25M over 8 is screwing him over

No. No we are not screwing him over we are placing him with in our teams salary structure.

 

[MyBudJT]

I guess Stamkos, Hedman and Kucherov are upset at their contracts....

 

[Liminality]

I guess Stamkos, Hedman and Kucherov are upset at their contracts....

Taxes help in that situation.

 

[Eb]

At present I agree.
Pastrnak is a better goal scorer and that usually makes a forward more money.
Back to back 30+ goal seasons for Pastrnak.

We refer to Willy as a 60 point player.
JVR and Patches are also 60 point players but they are referred to as 30 goal scores.

Ehlers is 6. Pastrnak 6.6.
Nylander (with cap inflation) should fall in the middle. He’s really comparable to Ehlers and both are a step behind Pastrnak.
A Marleau salary replacement at 6.25-6.3. I wouldn’t go higher.

You say cap inflation but then totally disregard cap inflation.

That 6.25 is more like 6.8 for 6 years with the cap increase.

 

[MyBudJT]

Taxes help in that situation.

They still could have got more if they wanted...

 

[PuckMagi]

having read every post through this negotiation, there is a point that I think is being missed in it all.
where willie is ranked in the fans' minds means nothing... the leafs' management's position is the only one that counts
biasy claim - i am a big willie fan and think he is under rated here - again, only my opinion and not worth anything
the only way willie controls any bit of his future is a bridge ... and here is my rationale - say he signs a team friendly deal at 6.25 for 8 ... great deal from the leafs perspective, but he has no trade protection for years, he could be shipped to any hell hole after signing a team friendly deal and burn away his prime ... sign a 3 year bridge ... everyone knows the lay of the land by then and he has some control, leafs have some control... everyone can win....

Ya, he's gotta worry if he signs the team friendly $6.25 x 8 deal... then he could get traded to somewhere like Winnipeg for Trouba... and he spends his prime years playing in Winnipeg while watching his former team win cups. Obviously that's not what he's signing up for.

I love Nylander... but if we can trade him for a legit #1 defender and move Johnsson or Kapanen up from the 4th line... that's obviously a move you gotta consider. Nylander is probably a better center than a winger... and he's probably not going to get a chance to play center here for a while.

Anyways... I can understand the hesitation to sign a long term deal and then risk getting traded. If he signs the short term deal, he has more control over where he plays. Might work out well enough for us anyways. We could be in more of a position in a few years to pay a higher salary if the cap goes up.

 

[crump]

Yes, Leafs hold all the cards here. His agent is just bluffing/trying to get the most for his client while he can at the start of camp, then he's going to come to realize he got as much as he's going to get then he'll sign and be back for a few preseason games. Whether it's a bridge or an 8 year deal is the only thing to be sorted.

 

[crump]

As long as he's signed before October 3 it's fine, if not Dubas needs to explain why it's not done because at this point it's almost like Dubas signed Tavares and went "I'm done."

it's time to get this done

What would give to get it done?