Speculation: Nylander Contract Discussion IV

[Walshy7]

And Marner is a year younger...Does anyone truly see a 60 point season this year, if so PM me and we can work out some bets...I promise attractive odds, lol.

But surely if nylander is a total byproduct of Matthews then marner getting 70+ points is a byproduct of Jt. That argument doesn’t work for one player and not the othwr

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Prove what exactly?

That he's worth $8 million.

 

[MyBudJT]

Willy Nylander:

Out of players who played 20+ NHL games:
156th in G/60
59th in P/60

When factoring in goaltenders, Lets say Nylander is the 65th best player in the league right now (a little generous, but I'll go with it)... Currently, the 65th highest cap hit is getting 6.166 million.

Sure, Nylander SHOULD improve... BUT... Most of these players signed on as UFAs as well, with a lot more leverage than Nylander.

 

[Notsince67]

isn't Marner a 20G 60P player if you round?

Round to the nearest thousand if you want and call Marner a 0 pt player. It doesn't change the fact that MM is better with a clear upward trajectory.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Round to the nearest thousand if you want and call Marner a 0 pt player. It doesn't change the fact that MM is better with a clear upward trajectory.

both are on a clear upward trajectory

 

[MyBudJT]

well he's basically a 65 point player if you include last year. so 60 point player = nothing special. 65 point player = elite core piece

Why would we include the rookie season at this point? Marner now is much better than he was as a rookie... unfortunately, I'm a little less certain saying the same thing in regards to Nylander. Don't get me wrong, Nylander is still a good player... but he didn't improve as much as Marner did last season.

 

[Walshy7]

Round to the nearest thousand if you want and call Marner a 0 pt player. It doesn't change the fact that MM is better with a clear upward trajectory.

Wait are you suggesting 21 yr old marner has an upward trajectory but 22 nylander is what he is?

 

[Kiwi]

Bottom line is 20G 60P players are nothing to brag about... Nylander is a little bit of a wild card here...

Excuse me? Two 60 point seasons while still on an ELC is nothing to brag about? That's pretty bloody good actually

Some players are over paid and some are under. Tavares signed for less with the leafs than elsewhere. There are a lot of players that do that. Truth is that the so-called haircut is less than the reported overpayment Willy is looking for. I want the team to be able to sign all their good players. If that means he sulks for a bit, I'm ok that he sits until he feels like lacing them on again. If He asks for a trade, I would oblige him provided the leafs can get a fair deal.

Why should the team get what they want and Nylander not then? Signing our players isn't Nylander's problem, that's Leafs management's issue not his and good luck getting fair value for Nylander right now

 

[Walshy7]

Why would we include the rookie season at this point? Marner now is much better than he was as a rookie... unfortunately, I'm a little less certain saying the same thing in regards to Nylander. Don't get me wrong, Nylander is still a good player... but he didn't improve as much as Marner did last season.

He added 8 points to his rookie season total that’s much better? Such warped views on both ends of the spectrum nylander low end and marner high end here

 

[Torontonian]

Need to let Nylander sits till he signs a good deal with us, I believe the longer he sits out the more its just going to hurt him as I think the team can still win without him in the lineup.

 

[MyBudJT]

But surely if nylander is a total byproduct of Matthews then marner getting 70+ points is a byproduct of Jt. That argument doesn’t work for one player and not the othwr

Except for Marner has already shown he's a 70 pt calliber player away from either Matthews or Tavares.

Nylander's production drops in the games he's played away from Matthews.

 

[Notsince67]

both are on a clear upward trajectory

Willy's upward trajectory is a rounding error

 

[DarkKnight]

But surely if nylander is a total byproduct of Matthews then marner getting 70+ points is a byproduct of Jt. That argument doesn’t work for one player and not the othwr

Who says he’s a total by product? They’re a unit and not having Willie will hurt Matthews, that’s irrefutable to me. So turn it around then, Marner got his 60 playing with Bozak and Kadri, Nylander with Matthews, who’s the better center? If we are sitting here next year and Marner hasn’t upped his point totals, then the comparison is fair. Right now it’s weak tea and I see no reason to drag him into this debate really.

As an aside, one could argue it is JT who will benefit most from Marner, and while I can see a slow start as they gel, there will come a stretch where JT sees careeresque production with the wizard on his wing.

Cheers bro, let’s get Willie here soon!

 

[Kiwi]

That he's worth $8 million.

So you'd rather pay him 8M than 6.25M-6.5M in a hard cap league? That isn't good cap management by any metric

 

[Walshy7]

Except for Marner has already shown he's a 70 pt calliber player away from either Matthews or Tavares.

Nylander's production drops in the games he's played away from Matthews.

Such a small sample size really isn’t even worth taking note of. Oh and his first 23 games were as a c and he played about a dozen games as c last season too. Not the easiest thing to do change positions all the time is it?.

This argument has been done to death but yet again bozaks line was heavily sheltered the same line marnernspent 110 games on. Any advantage nylander gains from matthews is nullifiednby the tougher matchups they received

 

[hotpaws]

This is what I dont get. As fans of the TEAM you'd think we'd all be hoping for reasonable deals for our best players to help keep the core together and contending for a long, long time. But people here care more about whether Willy ends up retiring with more money than he'll ever need, for some reason?

Someone help me out with this one please.

i'll give it a shot

I'll first mention that nothing posted on this board influences the contract negotiations in any way . I feel i need to say this since it seems many people actually believe that the larger the homer they are the better the team does .

now back to the contract

Some of us are trying to have an unbiased discussion on what would be a fair market contract . This doesn't mean we wouldn't like him to take it discount , it just means we won't freak out at him like some posters are doing if he doesn't .

 

[Walshy7]

Who says he’s a total by product? They’re a unit and not having Willie will hurt Matthews, that’s irrefutable to me. So turn it around then, Marner got his 60 playing with Bozak and Kadri, Nylander with Matthews, who’s the better center? If we are sitting here next year and Marner hasn’t upped his point totals, then the comparison is fair. Right now it’s weak tea and I see no reason to drag him into this debate really.

As an aside, one could argue it is JT who will benefit most from Marner, and while I can see a slow start as they gel, there will come a stretch where JT sees careeresque production with the wizard on his wing.

Cheers bro, let’s get Willie here soon!

I’m not saying you said that others have and do all the time

 

[56 Years No Cup]

So you'd rather pay him 8M than 6.25M-6.5M in a hard cap league? That isn't good cap management by any metric

I'd settle for 6.25 million but I don't think Willie will.

 

[Notsince67]

Excuse me? Two 60 point seasons while still on an ELC is nothing to brag about? That's pretty bloody good actually



Why should the team get what they want and Nylander not then? Signing our players isn't Nylander's problem, that's Leafs management's issue not his and good luck getting fair value for Nylander right now

Because a part of being on a good team is having your past and future numbers inflated by your team mates. They can always agree on a bridge. Why should the leafs pay him a premium and be stuck with his contract if he ends up sucking in the future?
There are always options here. Maybe you think it's unfair. Willy could ask for a trade and all the more reasonable owners shouldn't hold his alleged demands for fair payment against him. He has an absolute right to get market value. It just doesn't have to be to the penny on the leafs.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Because a part of being on a good team is having your past and future numbers inflated by your team mates. They can always agree on a bridge. Why should the leafs pay him a premium and be stuck with his contract if he ends up sucking in the future?
There are always options here. Maybe you think it's unfair. Willy could ask for a trade and all the more reasonable owners shouldn't hold his alleged demands for fair payment against him. He has an absolute right to get market value. It just doesn't have to be to the penny on the leafs.

He doesn't understand that Willie has no leverage and thinks that Willie sitting out (aka essentially a strike) will somehow be in Willie's favour.

It ain't gonna work that way.

 

[MyBudJT]

Excuse me? Two 60 point seasons while still on an ELC is nothing to brag about? That's pretty bloody good actually

There are a few examples of ELC seasons similar to Nylander's where the players don't improve to become superstars...

1) Jeff Skinner had he been healthy is a good example
2) Ondrej Palat is a good example
3) Logan Couture is a good example
4) Bobby Ryan is a good example
5) Chris Stewart is a good example

heck, even a guy like Matt Duchene has only had a season or two greater than his ELC years...

All I'm saying is Nylander is a little less of a sure thing than the Marners and Pastrnaks and Tarasenkos of the NHL.

He added 8 points to his rookie season total that’s much better? Such warped views on both ends of the spectrum nylander low end and marner high end here

Yes, it is actually... thats a 13% increase in production... If he increases that much again this season, he'll be a 78 point player...

If Nylander's point trajectory holds the same, he'll increase 0% to a whopping 61 point season!

Yes, I know point production isn't linear... just having some fun here

 

[Notsince67]

Such a small sample size really isn’t even worth taking note of. Oh and his first 23 games were as a c and he played about a dozen games as c last season too. Not the easiest thing to do change positions all the time is it?.

This argument has been done to death but yet again bozaks line was heavily sheltered the same line marnernspent 110 games on. Any advantage nylander gains from matthews is nullifiednby the tougher matchups they received

Yet I'll bet my house that Marner has better than a 69 pt season if he stays healthy, playing next to an elite center like Nylander did.

 

[Eb]

Based on what?
How much do you want to pay him?
He’s not better than Pastrnak at 6.6.
If anyone is having trouble eating lunch...

I want to pay him as little as possible. But I’m trying to be realistic based on his play on two full NHL seasons, his comparables and how much the salary cap was raised.

 

[hotpaws]

Some players are over paid and some are under. Tavares signed for less with the leafs than elsewhere. There are a lot of players that do that. Truth is that the so-called haircut is less than the reported overpayment Willy is looking for. I want the team to be able to sign all their good players. If that means he sulks for a bit, I'm ok that he sits until he feels like lacing them on again. If He asks for a trade, I would oblige him provided the leafs can get a fair deal.

why do people keep mentioning Dreger's report when he basically said he made it up ?

nothing has been reported so far from either side so how about we just leave it at that instead of continuing to make up fairy tales to shift the blame for this stalemate to him

Tavares contract makes him the second highest paid player in the league so i wouldn't try to spin that like he gave us some great value deal .

considering none of Marner-Mathews-Gardiner have signed sub market deals when they could have do we also trade them as well ?

and what if the players we trade them for also don't buy into the discount ? do we just keep trading players until we have a full team of players who'll play for less than they deserve ? and can we even find that many players ?

 

[Eb]

don't worry , i've been on this forum for 10 yrs and haven't been bitten yet

Lmao. People get offended about anything.