Player Discussion: Nikolaj "Probert" Ehlers Pt. 2

[Adam da bomb]

Roslovic wants respect of a veteran … Ehlers declines job on first power-play unit … Lowry says he won’t change


"THANKS, BUT NO THANKS
Another interesting note coming out of the San Jose post-game yak sessions was the revelation from Maurice that Ehlers turned down a spot on the No. 1 power-play unit.
“Nikolaj didn’t want to be there,” Maurice said. “That’s not a negative thing. He would prefer to run downhill on his natural side on the other unit.”
A day earlier, Maurice had said Ehlers would take a front-line spot on the No. 1 unit as a reward. He’s the team’s leading scorer, after all.
“And then the power-play guys talked and Nikky came back and said, ‘I prefer to be on the other unit on my natural side.’ It happens,” Maurice said. “Everybody by the time they get to the NHL is usually fairly specific about what they’re good at on the power play.
“Not a lot of guys want to work the slot, anyway. That’s the dark hole there.”"

His natural side is Wheeler’s spot?

 

[jepjepjoo]

Special teams. Use P/60 at even strength.

I used 5on5...

 

[Psych0dad]

His natural side is Wheeler’s spot?

Yeah he is a RW.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Roslovic wants respect of a veteran … Ehlers declines job on first power-play unit … Lowry says he won’t change


"THANKS, BUT NO THANKS
Another interesting note coming out of the San Jose post-game yak sessions was the revelation from Maurice that Ehlers turned down a spot on the No. 1 power-play unit.
“Nikolaj didn’t want to be there,” Maurice said. “That’s not a negative thing. He would prefer to run downhill on his natural side on the other unit.”
A day earlier, Maurice had said Ehlers would take a front-line spot on the No. 1 unit as a reward. He’s the team’s leading scorer, after all.
“And then the power-play guys talked and Nikky came back and said, ‘I prefer to be on the other unit on my natural side.’ It happens,” Maurice said. “Everybody by the time they get to the NHL is usually fairly specific about what they’re good at on the power play.
“Not a lot of guys want to work the slot, anyway. That’s the dark hole there.”"

Thanks, I missed that.

A little strange. What hockey player doesn't want to be on the PP? Maybe it was just the role on PP1 he didn't want.

Doesn't change the fact that he is producing without getting the best assignments.

I would prefer to see Niko on the Scheifele line - but the present arrangement might be the best way to have 2 lines producing, IDK. I think Connor might thrive with Wheeler and Roslovic. But as long as the current arrangement keeps working I'm content to stay with it.

On the PP, I think Ehlers would be more effective playing behind/beside the net, like Connor usually does. In front of the net, fighting for space, screening the goalie, looking for deflections, not so much. So it depends on what he would have been asked to do.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yeah he is a RW.

Because that's where he played as a child/Jr?

So some dad coaching a team of 6 YO kids decides he is a RW and professional coaches in the NHL are supposed to be bound by that?

 

[Adam da bomb]

Thanks, I missed that.

A little strange. What hockey player doesn't want to be on the PP? Maybe it was just the role on PP1 he didn't want.

Doesn't change the fact that he is producing without getting the best assignments.

I would prefer to see Niko on the Scheifele line - but the present arrangement might be the best way to have 2 lines producing, IDK. I think Connor might thrive with Wheeler and Roslovic. But as long as the current arrangement keeps working I'm content to stay with it.

On the PP, I think Ehlers would be more effective playing behind/beside the net, like Connor usually does. In front of the net, fighting for space, screening the goalie, looking for deflections, not so much. So it depends on what he would have been asked to do.

I think he'd look best in Wheeler's position.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Just PM me the details if you don't want to do it in public... Your arbitrary "model" most certainly takes away players who play SH. Not to mention players who play 18:01 ATOI.

All strengths pts/60 is bull****, I'll give you that. I just included it for your pleasure.

I have nothing against doing it in public, I am just not the type to write out whole novels on forums - Unless I feel an urge to argue my case, in this case, not so much - So call it lazy if you will

 

[jepjepjoo]

I have nothing against doing it in public, I am just not the type to write out whole novels on forums - Unless I feel an urge to argue my case, in this case, not so much - So call it lazy if you will

How about you shorten it to just a couple of bullet points? Pros for your arbitrary "model" and cons for pts/60?

 

[QuietContrarian]

How about you shorten it to just a couple of bullet points? Pros for your arbitrary "model" and cons for pts/60?

Maybe take a hint buddy.

 

[Halberdier]

I have nothing against doing it in public, I am just not the type to write out whole novels on forums - Unless I feel an urge to argue my case, in this case, not so much - So call it lazy if you will

Yeah, I mean, discussing on discussion forum is kind a lame anyways.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Yeah, I mean, discussing on discussion forum is kind a lame anyways.

No, engaging in discourse you have no interest in, is timewaste, and it is not really relevant to this thread.

I have no interest in discourse with your pal there. And since he is beilg an ass, I will tell him why.

besides yesterday was my wife and I 11 year anniversairy - I had plenty of other stuff to engage with irl.

 

[Halberdier]

Well @AstrophysicalJet , I think it was not an unreasonable (let alone some ass hat) request by @jepjepjoo to kindly ask why you think it's better compare strictly "under 18:00 TOI" guys instead of 5-on-5 P/60.

I think 1 or 2 sentences should be enough to explain, and always better than non-constructive meta discussion rants.



To continue on the subject, I think there is some additional value also by look at let's say "forwards with 16-19 minutes TOI", or something, but maybe if you can do this kind of filtering, then check how much P/60 on 5-on-5 those guys get. I am sure Ehlers is pretty high on that kind of fair comparision, just probably not TOP-5.

It obviously affects many things if you are allowed to play 21 instead of 17 minutes. I think it changes the dynamics a lot. Many guys need more TOI to get things going, and some other guys can't take more than 15 minutes or they will be a disaster.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Well @AstrophysicalJet , I think it was not an unreasonable (let alone some ass hat) request by @jepjepjoo to kindly ask why you think it's better compare strictly "under 18:00 TOI" guys instead of 5-on-5 P/60.

I think 1 or 2 sentences should be enough to explain, and always better than non-constructive meta discussion rants.



To continue on the subject, I think there is some additional value also by look at let's say "forwards with 16-19 minutes TOI", or something, but maybe if you can do this kind of filtering, then check how much P/60 on 5-on-5 those guys get. I am sure Ehlers is pretty high on that kind of fair comparision, just probably not TOP-5.

It obviously affects many things if you are allowed to play 21 instead of 17 minutes. I think it changes the dynamics a lot. Many guys need more TOI to get things going, and some other guys can't take more than 15 minutes or they will be a disaster.

It is definitely unreasonable when I had to tell him 3 times in a nice way I had no interest in it. Also the fact, that he started that whole discussion himself.

There was no non constructive meta discussion, there was no discussion at all.

You may see above why I did not!


Btw I never said 18mins toi was better than p60, I simply said p60 was a flawed stat.
I never even said the other was a good stat, just telling of what he gets out of his toi, comparedto other players with the same toi.

Some of you have this obsession, that if you disagree with something,(or misunderstand something) the other poster is bound by some invisible codex to engage in discourse and defend his position.

Even now, you are trying to bait me into discussing it. I am very stubborn and bound by principles, and alone on principles I wish not to partake any longer.

Let’s just end it here, and if you both think I have no argument, go ahead and think that if that makes you feel good about yourselves and superior, just please do not write it on a forum and keep it to yourselves, since I will always feel the need to defend myself when pressured.

 

[Halberdier]

It is definitely unreasonable when I had to tell him 3 times in a nice way I had no interest in it. Also the fact, that he started that whole discussion himself.

There was no non constructive meta discussion, there was no discussion at all.

You may see above why I did not!

Btw I never said 18mins toi was better than p60, I simply said p60 was a flawed stat.
I never even said the other was a good stat, just telling of what he gets out of his toi, comparedto other players with the same toi.

Some of you have this obsession, that if you disagree with something,(or misunderstand something) the other poster is bound by some invicible codex to engage in discourse and defend his position.

Tomorrow there is a prime time match (for us Finns, also Danish [and Dutch, let's not forget Dutch people]), and I am sure I can again sit back, relax and enjoy Ehlers and our other skaters tearing it up. Current TOP-6 lineup is best for the team I guess, but I would just love to see Ehlers <-> Connor swap to enjoy a super line like they have had in Edmonton, Colorado and Boston. (Also Ehlers just should be on PP1 -- Connor out, Wheeler net front, Laine-Ehlers being playmaker-shooters)

What I love most this season on Ehlers play is how his vision, "hockey IQ" has taken huge leaps. He always had the beautiful skating and zone entries, but now he actually knows what to do after skating circles around poor little bastards in o-zones.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Actually, it was you who started the conversation, and it was you who continued it first. Only then after you were asked what makes you think P/60 is horrible stat like you said, you said you are not going to explain why.

And after that, there are 2 @jepjepjoo posts to you, not 3. I can count. Latter one had as nasty tone as you had in the post he replied to, and that's unfortunate.

But this is just irritating BS. Tomorrow there is a prime time match (for us Finns, also Danish [and Dutch, let's not forget Dutch people]), and I am sure I can again sit back, relax and enjoy Ehlers and our other skaters tearing it up. Current TOP-6 lineup is best for the team I guess, but I would just love to see Ehlers <-> Connor swap to enjoy a super line like they have had in Edmonton, Colorado and Boston. (Also Ehlers just should be on PP1 -- Connor out, Wheeler net front, Laine-Ehlers being playmaker-shooters)

What I love most this season on Ehlers play is how his vision, "hockey IQ" has taken huge leaps. He always had the beautiful skating and zone entries, but now he actually knows what to do after skating circles around poor little bastards in o-zones.

He answered me 3 times, 4 if you count the one that starts this non discussion.

Praising Ehlers, is not starting a discussion, writing “What does that even mean” is.

JepJepJoo replied to me first. I just told him I am not a fan of p60, the non discussion was already started there.

asking someone to take a hint after several times saying they have no interest in the discussion is not being nasty, what he wrote after is.

But you are just proving my point, you are going on and on, and keep trying to be right - Keeping on pressuring me into a discussion.

Btw, since you two are comfy pals, you might be a bit biased in this.

Now, I kindly ask you to drop this, as it is starting to piss me off, as are you, which is not the first time btw.

and the only reason the both of you are so annoyed by what I wrote and demanding me to discuss, is because I wrote that Imo Ehlers has been the best fwd so far.

 

[DashingDane]

Since I posted the "discussed" stat to begin with I'll explain I went to nhl.com to check out the points rankings, scrolled down to the Jets players and when I reached Ehlers I noticed something that looked different. Most players that had the same amount of pts as him had significantly more icetime. I then scrolled back up to see how many players above him played less than him. I found 3. Super simple This wasn't a master plan to show he is better than X player. It was just a realization. Regardless of special teams he produces as players that play several minutes more than him each game. It made me wonder what he could do with Connor/Laine/Wheeler minutes.

 

[Ukkosenjumala]

Since I posted the "discussed" stat to begin with I'll explain I went to nhl.com to check out the points rankings, scrolled down to the Jets players and when I reached Ehlers I noticed something that looked different. Most players that had the same amount of pts as him had significantly more icetime. I then scrolled back up to see how many players above him played less than him. I found 3. Super simple This wasn't a master plan to show he is better than X player. It was just a realization. Regardless of special teams he produces as players that play several minutes more than him each game. It made me wonder what he could do with Connor/Laine/Wheeler minutes.

While I agree that Ehlers has been very efficient, the difference isn't that big compared to his teammates outside of Scheifele. On average he plays two minutes less than Wheeler and Laine per game and his overall TOI on 5v5 is actually higher than Wheelers or Laine's and pretty much on par with Connors. The difference comes from the PP and he definitely should get his looks there, it just seems like PoMo doesn't wanna put all his eggs in the same basket when it comes to the PP but he should find a way to get Ehlers there.

 

[DashingDane]

While I agree that Ehlers has been very efficient, the difference isn't that big compared to his teammates outside of Scheifele. On average he plays two minutes less than Wheeler and Laine per game and his overall TOI on 5v5 is actually higher than Wheelers or Laine's and pretty much on par with Connors. The difference comes from the PP and he definitely should get his looks there, it just seems like PoMo doesn't wanna put all his eggs in the same basket when it comes to the PP but he should find a way to get Ehlers there.

Would love to see him get more pp/4v4 time and I'm aware that's where the difference comes from. But I think 2 minutes per game is a big difference when you are the leading goalscorer and putting up similar pts with quite a bit less icetime.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Would love to see him get more pp/4v4 time and I'm aware that's where the difference comes from. But I think 2 minutes per game is a big difference when you are the leading goalscorer and putting up similar pts with quite a bit less icetime.

Especially if those 2 mins are pp.

 

[Duke749]

While I agree that Ehlers has been very efficient, the difference isn't that big compared to his teammates outside of Scheifele. On average he plays two minutes less than Wheeler and Laine per game and his overall TOI on 5v5 is actually higher than Wheelers or Laine's and pretty much on par with Connors. The difference comes from the PP and he definitely should get his looks there, it just seems like PoMo doesn't wanna put all his eggs in the same basket when it comes to the PP but he should find a way to get Ehlers there.

He's probably our best forward at 5v5. So dam consistent which is really hard to do.

 

[grieves]

Ehlers has been feen fantastic and he has some very unique strengths in this team. He draws penalties like crazy which is fantastic when we figure out the final form of our powerplay.

He should definitely see more minutes and 1a + 1b lines should reflect that 5v5.

On 4v4 the combinations could be more fluid. I would maybe even try Scheifele + Wheeler (just always play them first so they can have a rest before potentially going back on the ice), Ehlers + Laine combo for 10 games or so. It would give the "bros" some (pretty damn good) "mance", and it would be a fun trial and potentially very effective trial.

Have we seen a Ehlers + Laine + Wheeler/(+)Scheif trial on the PP? We should investigate a route of "all the eggs into the basket" while having a clearly weaker PP2 (who will then be in the mindstate of showing everyone that they can actually score). This team should have league-leading PP so if we are not at that level then more fixing is needed.

My point is, Ehlers is really really good and maybe we should see how much he can be squeezed for value. We can only know by trial.

 

[Ukkosenjumala]

Would love to see him get more pp/4v4 time and I'm aware that's where the difference comes from. But I think 2 minutes per game is a big difference when you are the leading goalscorer and putting up similar pts with quite a bit less icetime.

Well that requires taking the ice time off of someone else, he's playing with Wheeler already and you can't justify taking Laine off the top line right now. It looks like the 3rd line is really dipping into his ice time, I understand that Lowry and Copp need to kill penalties but there's no reason their ice time should be higher than Ehlers's on 5v5 considering their production. The other alternative is to swap him and Connor ( who's average TOI is over 20 minutes and the gap between him to Wheeler and Laine is nearly as big as the gap between Wheeler/Laine and Ehlers) and reunite ESL which I'm all for. Him on the first PP is propably something that 90 % agrees so no argument there, it would propably boost everyones numbers.

 

[DashingDane]

Well that requires taking the ice time off of someone else, he's playing with Wheeler already and you can't justify taking Laine off the top line right now. It looks like the 3rd line is really dipping into his ice time, I understand that Lowry and Copp need to kill penalties but there's no reason their ice time should be higher than Ehlers's on 5v5 considering their production. The other alternative is to swap him and Connor ( who's average TOI is over 20 minutes and the gap between him to Wheeler and Laine is nearly as big as the gap between Wheeler/Laine and Ehlers) and reunite ESL which I'm all for. Him on the first PP is propably something that 90 % agrees so no argument there, it would propably boost everyones numbers.

Yeah, I'm not sure where you find the extra minutes either. 4v4 would be an obvious start considering his even strength production and speed. I wouldn't want him eating any Laine and Scheifele time on pp. I personally think he could be swapped with Connor or Wheels and probably perform better but I also know I'm biased. I don't necessarily have a perfect solution but there has to be a way to find more minutes for the most consistent 2 way forward of the season imo.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Just a nice, simple, non-controversial comment: Ehlers has been killing it this year. The improvements to both his and Laine's play are a huge part of what's making this team tick this year.

 

[Ukkosenjumala]

One thing is clear tho, Jets have the 6th worst PP in the league and Ehlers has the most PP goals on the team despite having almost half the ice time of the other Top 6 guys. What does the coaching staff have to lose by putting Ehlers out there? Looking at these PP stats is just depressing considering the Jets have had one of the best PP's by the numbers in the last years, there's other things that need to start happening to turn it around like Laine putting the puck to the net like he's used to but having Ehlers out there would certainly help too.