Nico Hischier

[zharkenby]

No need to restate that you don't watch players or prospects outside of NJ. That's already well-established.

You’re right, haven’t watched much of Rasmussen, which is why I’m asking for an explanation as to how he is on Hischiers level. Stop trying to bail yourself out [mod]

 

[StoneHands]

I do...and it's a contradictory sentence in itself. You cannot state a player's ceiling is Nicklas Backstrom but then say without 100 points. That's not their ceiling then.

Read his entire post and you tell me. Page 1 on Veleno part 2.

You absolutely can. It's basically saying take away this one outlier of a season and this is the kind of ceiling he can have. Backstrom has essentially been a 20-25 goal, 75-85 point player throughout his career and I'm assuming that's the kind of player he was comparing him to. He specifically said to remove the one outlier season so that people like you wouldn't jump down his throat about saying a prospect has 100 point potential.

If I said a player compares to and has a similar style to Kane that doesn't mean I think the guy is going to be scoring 45 goals and 105 points every year since that's not the player Kane has been for the overwhelming majority of his career. It's basically saying "This guy has 30 goal, 85 point potential".

 

[Nocashstyle]

Do you have an idea what the word "Sans" means?

Do you know what it means to say a "player's ceiling is:" that's not merely talking about play style. It's their projected best case scenario on-ice impact.

 

[TwoPiece]

You’re right, haven’t watched much of Rasmussen, which is why I’m asking for an explanation as to how he is on Hischiers level. Stop trying to bail yourself out [mod]

I'm not going to scout a prospect for you. Do your own work. If you haven't seen Rasmussen play, then you literally have no comparison between the players other than watching highlight reels on YouTube. The only definitive response will be, "one plays in the NHL and the other hasn't (yet)", which is just a cop-out for being unable to evaluate one of the player's potential impacts. Stop attempting to "bail" yourself out with personal attacks just because you lack any knowledge.

 

[Nocashstyle]

You absolutely can. It's basically saying take away this one outlier of a season and this is the kind of ceiling he can have. Backstrom has essentially been a 20-25 goal, 75-85 point player throughout his career and I'm assuming that's the kind of player he was comparing him to. He specifically said to remove the one outlier season so that people like you wouldn't jump down his throat about saying a prospect has 100 point potential.

My point exactly. That's an asburd projection.

 

[DRW204]

I do...and it's a contradictory sentence in itself. You cannot state a player's ceiling is Nicklas Backstrom but then say without 100 points. That's not their ceiling then.

Read his entire post and you tell me. Page 1 on Veleno part 2.

No it's not. You should read the entire post, it is clearly talking about a floor/ceiling comparison of Veleno's IQ and hockey smarts even mentions a floor comparable the following sentence. Even look at post #15 of that thread, clearly talking about offensive skills and play style.

His ceiling is probably Nicklas Backstrom, sans 30 goals/100 points. His floor is something of a Valtteri Filppula/Lars Eller. IMO he's the 3rd "smartest" player of the 2018 draft and, similar to the Rasmussen pick, a sure-fire NHL player in some capacity.

You don't think that he has that kind of vision or play style?

.....

And in the Veleno thread you explicitly stated that he has Backstrom level 30g/100 point ceiling.

So again, you might want to take the homer glasses off yourself too.

The bolded never happened, it really seems like you don't know what "sans" means.

 

[TwoPiece]

My point exactly. That's an asburd projection.

I also specified that Veleno will likely never reach Backstrom's numbers because he's unlikely to have a generational multiple Rocket Richard-winning winger for most (or any) of his career. It was a play-style and hockey IQ comparison, as previously mentioned. Just because you didn't get it, doesn't make it absurd, at all.

 

[StoneHands]

Do you know what it means to say a "player's ceiling is:" that's not merely talking about play style. It's their projected best case scenario on-ice impact.

Yes and when he said "Sans" he was saying "except for this one outlier". He was saying that his ceiling is along the lines of a 25 goal, 85 point player with similar attributes to Backstrom. I'm not saying I agree with the projection but saying he claimed the guy has 30 goal, 100 point potential when he quite literally said he doesn't have that potential isn't just misleading, it's lying.

 

[Nocashstyle]

I also specified that Veleno will likely never reach Backstrom's numbers because he's unlikely to have a generational multiple Rocket Richard-winning winger for most (or any) of his career. It was a play-style and hockey IQ comparison, as previously mentioned. Just because you didn't get it, doesn't make it absurd, at all.

Ceiling is not playstyle.

Regardless, back on topic: waiting for justification on your hot Rasmussen/Hischier take...

 

[TwoPiece]

Ceiling is not playstyle.

Regardless, back on topic: waiting for justification on your hot Rasmussen/Hischier take...

Sure, now that you've conceded that you were completely wrong, let's move on...

As again, previously mentioned, I think that both Hischier and Rasmussen will impact their respected clubs in identical value. There's nothing more to be said. NJ homers think that Hischier is the next coming of Datsyuk/Kopitar, and just stat-watch Rasmussen. There's no fair comparison to be made at this time, because 1 player made his NHL team at 18, and the other is on the cusp of doing so. After the 2018-19 season this discussion will be more than "I think"s from people.

 

[135ace]

So to sum up this thread, Nico produces a fine D+1 season, but due to his lack of pre-draft pedigree and hype we can reasonably expect that it was clearly a fluke and that everyone from Nolan Patrick (who was quite solid in the 2nd half of the season) to bums like Pettersson and Rasmussen who couldn't even crack the nhl will clearly outproduce him and have better careers because he was a "weak 1OA pick". Clearly the Devils screwed up and Nico should have been a 3rd round pick. Amirite?

EDIT: I forgot to mention that not only will his draft peers be better, but his rookie peers will clearly be as well. The Avs homers in here are certain that Kerfoot will be a better player, and so will guys like PLD, Connor and DeBrincat.

 

[DRW204]

So to sum up this thread, Nico produces a fine D+1 season, but due to his lack of pre-draft pedigree and hype we can reasonably expect that it was clearly a fluke and that everyone from Nolan Patrick (who was quite solid in the 2nd half of the season) to bums like Pettersson and Rasmussen who couldn't even crack the nhl will clearly outproduce him and have better careers because he was a "weak 1OA pick". Clearly the Devils screwed up and Nico should have been a 3rd round pick. Amirite?

You're being quite dramatic. Lot of ppl, non NJD fans especially, have given him praise throughout this thread. Being a 50ish pt top line C at 19 is quite an accomplishment and he'll get better. People just disagreed that he's an 80 pt selke player that was floated earlier in this thread. Not sure why you're so sensitive about this .. Where did anyone say he shouldn't have been first overall?

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

I'm not going to scout a prospect for you. Do your own work. If you haven't seen Rasmussen play, then you literally have no comparison between the players other than watching highlight reels on YouTube. The only definitive response will be, "one plays in the NHL and the other hasn't (yet)", which is just a cop-out for being unable to evaluate one of the player's potential impacts. Stop attempting to "bail" yourself out with personal attacks just because you lack any knowledge.

coming from the guy who claims Hischier will max out around his rookie year

telling others theydont know a player yet you clewrly dont know Hischier and this is a Hischier thread

 

[135ace]

You're being quite dramatic. Lot of ppl, non NJD fans especially, have given him praise throughout this thread. Being a 50ish pt top line C at 19 is quite an accomplishment and he'll get better. People just disagreed that he's an 80 pt selke player that was floated earlier in this thread. Not sure why you're so sensitive about this .. Where did anyone say he shouldn't have been first overall?

I'm simply pointing out how hypocritical people are on here. All season I've heard homers from other teams bash Nico's lack of production and go on about how X player will be better than Hischier...

I completely understand that Nico wasn't a sexy 1OA pick. Hell, I wanted Patrick and I'm eating crow right now (although I think Patrick will still be a fine player, I just think Nico has far more upside). But he literally just put up an excelling D+1 season, outperforming pretty much everyone's expectations, and there's no reason to think he'll stop progressing. Do I expect him to be a top 5C in the league? No, I don't, but I also don't expect him to top out as a RNH/Duchene type.

Now to go to the OP's question, Nico has a lot of potential. Will he progress linearly? Probably not (if he continues to progress at this pace he could become a top 5 C, but it's very unlikely that happens). But to say he'll stop progressing is flat out asinine (It's more likely that he progresses dramatically than that he plateaus and stops progressing). He's not physically mature yet and progressed throughout the season. He also played through an injury. This is also only his second season in NA and a far more intense schedule than anything he's experienced previously. All that means I think he has a great shot of being a top 10-15C in the league.

 

[TwoPiece]

I'm simply pointing out how hypocritical people are on here. All season I've heard homers from other teams bash Nico's lack of production and go on about how X player will be better than Hischier...

I completely understand that Nico wasn't a sexy 1OA pick. Hell, I wanted Patrick and I'm eating crow right now (although I think Patrick will still be a fine player, I just think Nico has far more upside). But he literally just put up an excelling D+1 season, outperforming pretty much everyone's expectations, and there's no reason to think he'll stop progressing. Do I expect him to be a top 5C in the league? No, I don't, but I also don't expect him to top out as a RNH/Duchene type.

Now to go to the OP's question, Nico has a lot of potential. Will he progress linearly? Probably not (if he continues to progress at this pace he could become a top 5 C, but it's very unlikely that happens). But to say he'll stop progressing is flat out asinine (It's more likely that he progresses dramatically than that he plateaus and stops progressing). He's not physically mature yet and progressed throughout the season. He also played through an injury. This is also only his second season in NA and a far more intense schedule than anything he's experienced previously. All that means I think he has a great shot of being a top 10-15C in the league.

For the record, I also thought that Nolan Patrick "should" have been the player selected 1st overall. Right now, Hischier was the correct pick. Only time will tell who the best player of the 2017 draft is. Right now it's Hischier.

Who knows? Maybe Patrick would have put up Hischier's totals, and vice-versa, if NJ did select him 1st. It's all hypothetical.

 

[Volica]

Guys going to be a really, really good centre for a long time.
I could see 65-70 points from him this season, I think he'll be in the Backstrom mold of centre.

 

[DRW204]

I'm simply pointing out how hypocritical people are on here. All season I've heard homers from other teams bash Nico's lack of production and go on about how X player will be better than Hischier...

I completely understand that Nico wasn't a sexy 1OA pick. Hell, I wanted Patrick and I'm eating crow right now (although I think Patrick will still be a fine player, I just think Nico has far more upside). But he literally just put up an excelling D+1 season, outperforming pretty much everyone's expectations, and there's no reason to think he'll stop progressing. Do I expect him to be a top 5C in the league? No, I don't, but I also don't expect him to top out as a RNH/Duchene type.

Now to go to the OP's question, Nico has a lot of potential. Will he progress linearly? Probably not (if he continues to progress at this pace he could become a top 5 C, but it's very unlikely that happens). But to say he'll stop progressing is flat out asinine (It's more likely that he progresses dramatically than that he plateaus and stops progressing). He's not physically mature yet and progressed throughout the season. He also played through an injury. This is also only his second season in NA and a far more intense schedule than anything he's experienced previously. All that means I think he has a great shot of being a top 10-15C in the league.

Can't speak for other threads, but for this thread not a single person mentioned Connor, Kerfoot or Debrincat as you said in your previous post. Anyway, it seems like numerous people in this thread to project Hischier to be a yearly average 60-65ish pt C with Selke consideration with a peak season at 70ish pts. That's better than RNH and Duchene

 

[TwoPiece]

coming from the guy who claims Hischier will max out around his rookie year

telling others theydont know a player yet you clewrly dont know Hischier and this is a Hischier thread

"Wah, this guy doesn't think that Hischier's the best, wah..."

You've disregarded all of my responses to your ridiculous accusations. Clearly you don't speak English or something.

Is there an ignore list that I can put this insect on?

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

"Wah, this guy doesn't think that Hischier's the best, wah..."

You've disregarded all of my responses to your ridiculous accusations. Clearly you don't speak English or something.

Is there an ignore list that I can put this insect on?

Lol you just look ridiculous

First Hischier will be a 60-point guy for his career and now one of your teams prospects is conveniently going to be just as good.

We get it, you have zero clue about Nico Hischier

 

[TwoPiece]

Lol you just look ridiculous

First Hischier will be a 60-point guy for his career and now one of your teams prospects is conveniently going to be just as good.

We get it, you have zero clue about Nico Hischier

What year did you travel to the past from..? You claim that Hischier will be some certain center ice god without any knowledge. Yikes.

Your homer hard-on for the kid is more disturbing than thought-provoking. Your poor opinions are no valid than any of my conjecture.

We get it, you have zero clues about hockey.

I scouted him before the 2017 draft. You didn't start watching him until this past season, and you haven't seen any of the prospects that could be compared, long-term value-wise, to him. Your opinions have literally no validation.

 

[135ace]

For the record, I also thought that Nolan Patrick "should" have been the player selected 1st overall. Right now, Hischier was the correct pick. Only time will tell who the best player of the 2017 draft is. Right now it's Hischier.

Who knows? Maybe Patrick would have put up Hischier's totals, and vice-versa, if NJ did select him 1st. It's all hypothetical.

It's possible. Either way I expect them both to progress next season.

Can't speak for other threads, but for this thread not a single person mentioned Connor, Kerfoot or Debrincat as you said in your previous post. Anyway, it seems like numerous people in this thread to project Hischier to be a yearly average 60-65ish pt C with Selke consideration with a peak season at 70ish pts. That's better than RNH and Duchene

You missed some great threads then. I don't remember if it was the Avs homer that's been posting in here, but there were some Avs and Canucks homers claiming that Nico doesn't score enough "ooh la la" goals to be considered a good player. I get that the fans of the bottom-feeder teams were upset they lost the draft lottery, but it was seriously cringeworthy.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

What year did you travel to the past from..? You claim that Hischier will be some certain center ice god without any knowledge. Yikes.

Your homer hard-on for the kid is more disturbing than thought-provoking. Your poor opinions are no valid than any of my conjecture.

We get it, you have zero clues about hockey.

I scouted him before the 2017 draft. You didn't start watching him until this past season, and you haven't seen any of the prospects that could be compared, long-term value-wise, to him. Your opinions have literally no validation.

LOL like anyone cares that you 'scout'. I sure hope you dont do it for a living because pronouncing 19-year olds as almost near their peak is pretty poor assesment for a scout.

Idk whos funnier, you or the Elias Pettersson poster - both of you claim you scout yet both of you have horrific opinions on prospects.

 

[TwoPiece]

LOL like anyone cares that you 'scout'. I sure hope you dont do it for a living because pronouncing 19-year olds as almost near their peak is pretty poor assesment for a scout.

Idk whos funnier, you or the Elias Pettersson poster - both of you claim you scout yet both of you have horrific opinions on prospects.

I couldn't care less about your hopes and dreams.

Idk what's funnier, you thinking that a 19-year old is a sure-fire bet to be a better player, or you criticizing other people's scouting despite the fact that you don't watch any prospects not related to the New Jersey Devils.

 

[BahlDeep]

Is there a reason why Rasmussen couldn't make the main roster considering how utterly bad the Detroit roster is?

 

[TwoPiece]

Is there a reason why Rasmussen couldn't make the main roster considering how utterly bad the Detroit roster is?

Primarily contractual obligations, secondarily playing position. They didn't want to stick him on the 4th line.

With the uncertainty of Zetterberg, and Tatar gone, there's an opportunity to play a Top-6 role for both Rasmussen and Filip Zadina.

I think it's also likely that Athanasiou gets dealt at some point.