Dreger: (Mod warning post 661) Marner's camp to take negotiations beyond July 1st and to visit teams startin

[Epictetus]

An offersheet could be beneficial to the Leafs.

 

[Liferleafer]

You can't say that with a straight face, can you? Do you think he thought Tavares was going to come there a few years back? That's where the wrench got thrown in the cogs. Without Tavares, you don't have the cap issues (not saying you shouldn't have signed him).

Without considering Tavares...all of Nylander/Marner/Matthews as well as young kids like Kapanen were due big raises during the Marleau years. Add to that the fact that re-signing Gardiner (if that was ever a thought) was also squashed or actually adding a quality D (big need) . Everybody including Leafs fans new that 3rd year was going to be an albatross.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Bergeron/Pastrnak etc didn't sign discounts. They were paid what they were worth at the time, just like the Leafs stars will be.

In a few years when the cap goes up and lesser players start getting paid more and more, the Matthews/Marner etc contracts will look like steals too.

You are supposed to pay your stars. Even if you overpay them by 1-2M it's not the end of the world. Sign your best players at any cost, and don't overpay your bottom 6ers. If the Oilers handed out a blank check to McDavid and Drai and no one else they probably would have won a cup by now.

I can understand people trashing the Nylander deal, but Marner? Give him 12M and count your blessings Leaf fans.

I would agree if it were 8 years deal but the Matthews contract is only 5 years. By the time the other ones catch up, he’ll be UFA.

 

[Cotton]

I guess you have figured it out.

Leafs are most likely lowballing Marner's camp because they know not many teams will be in the position to OS him and even less teams will be willing to do so. Marner's camp is trying to turn the wind in their favor by going public about this.

Where has anyone gone public about anything? Last I heard Dreger was speculating like he always does.

 

[SML2]

Boston can do an offer sheet if it so wishes. Kevan Miller is all but gone, while I think that Krug will be traded for a young C (or RW). The Bruins may also attempt to unload Backes with a prospect/picks. So, the cap space will be there. Does Sweeney, however, want to disrupt the present salary structure, in which Marner would be earning roughly $4 million more than any of Marchand, Bergeron and Pastrnak? As for the picks, the Bruins have a solid core of young players and prospects and traditionally have drafted very well outside the first round.

Still, what a coup it would be for Boston to poach a rival's (arguably) best player and fill an organizational need (right-shot RW) in the process.

You hit the nail in the head. Can do and will do are two different things. To add a near 100 PT scorer that's going to disrupt the room and affect your current actual 100 PT scorer and his line who have achieved and proven more and bested the guy you're going to add at twice their salary is foolishness.

 

[sparxx87]

Where has anyone gone public about anything? Last I heard Dreger was speculating like he always does.

It’s amazing how one connection accounted for all of his credibility.

 

[habsrule22]

Habs should offer sheet him for 11.5 m we got enough assets to get a first round pick in a year when its a real good draft year Sign marner and Duchesne would put us up there as play off favorites. We would have enough forwards and prospects to address LD (something toronto should have done) and make cap work

 

[TFHockey]

Respectfully, if we are to believe Dreger and the like, Nylanders original ask was 8.5

Yeah I read that after I posted. Good point. There was some give and take there. Still, a guy who held out most of the season should've been forced to take less.. no? I'd be happier if he was earning $6 Million per.

Edit: I feel, right or wrong, that Dubas is between a rock and a hard place in these negotiations with Marner. The Leafs must sign him IMHO.

 

[StreetHawk]

I would agree if it were 8 years deal but the Matthews contract is only 5 years. By the time the other ones catch up, he’ll be UFA.

If you are an RFA doesn’t what Brock Nelson a second tier forward show you the leverage of being a ufa at your earliest does for you? He’s 27 this year, late 2010 first rounder. So 6 year term takes him to 33 which is the end of his prime years.

Earliest that marner can be a ufa is at age 26. Needs 4 more years but he’s still young enough he can give 1 year maybe 2 of ufa for more security now.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

I would say Marner holds all the cards in this one. Dubas is going to fail one way or the other. Overpay him, let him sit, trade Marner, or overpay him. There is no situation Marner loses in this. The time to sign Marner was last summer when he was willing to negotiate, 9.5 was what was reported he wanted. Those days are long gone. Young Dubas is learning the hard way as he did with Nylander. He dropped the ball.

Here is a potential scenario:
Marner gets an offer sheet of $10.5 million a year for 5 years, the Leafs match like everyone knows they will at that price and then trade him the following Summer to Arizona where there will be no JT to help pad his stats. Then Marner toils in anonymity (few endorsement opportunities) for the next four years.

Where Marner plays is not in his control, what he can earn on the ice to play hockey for the next five (or more) years is the only card that he has to play, either by signing an offer sheet or by not signing (a la Nylander).

I don't want to under sell it, it's a great card to have but it's only one card and relies on another team to either be willing to pony up the 4 firsts required to price himself out of Toronto or be willing to offer less than that knowing that the Leafs will match it and meanwhile tie their own hands during the UFA signing window.
I don't think that there are GMs out there that will think giving up so much of their teams future will be worth the cost.

The Leafs gave up 2 firsts to Boston in the Kessel trade which ended up being Dougie Hamilton and Tyler Seguin and were lambasted, and rightly so, for their stupidity for years. How likely is it that another team will want to take twice the risk?

 

[93gilmour93]

Cap problems at the top of the league > cap problems in the basement.

Zing

 

[sparxx87]

Yeah I read that after I posted. Good point. There was some give and take there. Still, a guy who held out most of the season should've been forced to take less.. no? I'd be happier if he was earning $6 Million per.

Edit: I feel, right or wrong, that Dubas is between a rock and a hard place in these negotiations with Marner. The Leafs must sign him IMHO.

Great points.

That’s the one for me that didn’t sit well. In hindsight, I’m fine with the deal and still believe in his upside. The Leafs are laughing at his number in a year or two... but... I believe Nylander could have accepted a bridge like the Leafs wanted and probably prevented the hold out. Both sides share blame IMO.

And you’re right, Dubas has put himself in a tight spot with the money he has to work with, but he has no choice with Marner.

Not an enviable task, but a problem at least 20 GM’s would love to have.

 

[Liferleafer]

[QUOTE="The Winter Soldier, post: 161430635, member: 118936"]Dubas had a chance to sign Marner last summer at 9.5. He didn't, now he is in his own predicament he created himself. There is no reason to twist anything because it is a straight line failure.[/QUOTE]
Gonna need a source on that one.

 

[blinkman360]

This offseason is going to feel like Christmas. A long way off from last July, which felt like the apocalypse.

Can’t wait.

 

[JrFischer54]

Most were market value. One could argue Pastarnak was team-friendly.

think pasta signs that same deal now or wants more?

 

[justafan22]

think pasta signs that same deal now or wants more?

Pastrnak and Marchand both signed it before they hit 80+ points

 

[JrFischer54]

Pastrnak and Marchand both signed it before they hit 80+ points

i know which is no they wouldn't have signed those deals coming off of 80pt years. this is a case where the team got the benefit of signing the player BEFORE they exploded.

 

[Emerz]

think pasta signs that same deal now or wants more?

Pasta absolutely wouldn't want more, he actually said in an interview a few days ago that he doesn't even care about money at all and is just happy to be doing what he loves for a living. The whole Bruins culture is centered around winning being the common goal.

"In 2013, Bergeron and Hughes entered contract negotiations with the Bruins for what became an eight-year, max-term extension. At the time Hughes projected that Bergeron could fetch upwards of $9 million on the open market, comparing him to fellow two-way dynamos Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf, both of whom had recently re-signed with Anaheim for annual cap hits above $8 million. “And he said, ‘We’ll never win at that number,’” Hughes recalls. “I said, ‘If you take this, you don’t stop other people from taking more, you know that, right?’
“He said, ‘I know. I can’t control that, I can just do my part.’"

Marchand has also said similar things in the past, they know the importance of the cap and how it allows them to have a better team to achieve the ultimate goal.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

[QUOTE="The Winter Soldier, post: 161430635, member: 118936"]Dubas had a chance to sign Marner last summer at 9.5. He didn't, now he is in his own predicament he created himself. There is no reason to twist anything because it is a straight line failure.

Gonna need a source on that one.[/QUOTE]
Now don't say Kyper has no sources. But the discussion point was 72M. We can assume this was for 8 years. Which is right in the 9-9.5 range. Dubas thought it was too rich, and he is now in this predicament of his own making,

“Many people talking, suggesting maybe the best chance to sign him on a long-term deal, Ron, would have been in the summer,” Nick Kypreos told Ron MacLean Saturday during the Headlines segment of Hockey Night in Canada. “The discussion point was around $72 million prior to the season and my understanding is it was too rich for the Toronto Maple Leafs.”

 

[93gilmour93]

So it's 9.0 and not 9.5 like you said.....

 

[The Winter Soldier]

So it's 9.0 and not 9.5 like you said.....

If it was 9, Dubas looks even worse then. He really missed his chance last summer. Marner is now going to make sure of that. Can't blame the kid, he bet on himself. And Dubas lost that bet.

 

[ToDavid]

But what is true, is that Nylander got his 6.9 million, didn't have to have training camp, and worked 2 months less than everyone else. There are GM's around that would have refused to give him that full 6.9 because Nylander sat out.

Nylander suffered no consequences for sitting out. Only the Leafs suffered.

It takes two to tango. Management held him out just as much as he sat out. Do you think he enjoyed it?

 

[93gilmour93]

If it was 9, Dubas looks even worse then. He really missed his chance last summer. Marner is now going to make sure of that. Can't blame the kid, he bet on himself. And Dubas lost that bet.

Well at the time Marner's numbers didn't justify that contract but after a season with JT his numbers took off. It would have been a great deal to sign but like I said at the time Dubas was right to not sign it

 

[Liferleafer]

Gonna need a source on that one.

Now don't say Kyper has no sources. But the discussion point was 72M. We can assume this was for 8 years. Which is right in the 9-9.5 range. Dubas thought it was too rich, and he is now in this predicament of his own making,[/QUOTE]


Suggested and my understanding? Ah....gotcha.

Oh...and you mean this Kypreos? The guy that said Marner wouldn't become a go to guy with Babcock? The guy that said Connor Brown and Zach Hyman are ahead of Marner on the depth chart? The guy that called Maener a 3rd line winger?? The guy that said they were more committed to Bozak so they should trade him?? The guy that said Marner would never be a top 3 player on Toronto??

Ya, he's a f***ing genius.

 

[MattMartin]

Without considering Tavares...all of Nylander/Marner/Matthews as well as young kids like Kapanen were due big raises during the Marleau years. Add to that the fact that re-signing Gardiner (if that was ever a thought) was also squashed or actually adding a quality D (big need) . Everybody including Leafs fans new that 3rd year was going to be an albatross.

Without Tavares you have a extra 10+ million. Everything would have been fine.