Dreger: (Mod warning post 661) Marner's camp to take negotiations beyond July 1st and to visit teams startin

[The Winter Soldier]

Wouldn’t all reporters be middle men? If you get info from a source and tell to someone else you are a middle man. If you get info from a player or a gm and tel it to someone else , you are a middle man.

What is a middle man for you?

It's the middle man because Dreger's comments were directed to the leafs through the media to play the negotiations game. I think everyone knows he won't sign for 9 per. Not sure why you think people don't already know that

Nope. Reporters report. They work for their news organization. They do not broker deals with agents and players. They are not middle men. Dreger actually works for the people that follow hockey, and like it or not he has multiple sources. It is actually the readers that are the ones that listen to the reporting, and interpret what ever meanings come from it they want.

For Marner, it is he is shopping around June 26 if Dubas does not sign him in line to the not so friendly team deals Matthews and Nylander signed. That's the message, and it was not hard to see this.

 

[Liferleafer]

Source was asked for, sourced was provided, and now source is not good enough. Got to just at this.

Ok, so you are saying Dubas made a mistake not signing Marner befor this season for 9 million. I am now going to ask you a direct question, and i hope you don't dance around it....it will take a bit to set up the question.

In this very thread...and many others, you have absolutely trashed Dubas for massively overpaying 22 year old Nylander 6.9 million after 2 straight 60+ point years. You have said Dubase caved and got schooled by Nylander.

So now the question, after last season ,21 year old Marner had 2 straight 60+point seasons...can you please explain to everyone how Dubas failed AT THAT TIME by not signing Marner for 9 million? I mean he was pretty comparable to Nylander....no? So if Nylander is overpaid at 6.9....how is not giving 2.1 more to Marner AT THAT TIME considered a failure?

 

[93gilmour93]

Nope. Reporters report. They work for their news organization. They do not broker deals with agents and players. They are not middle men. Dreger actually works for the people that follow hockey, and like it or not he has multiple sources. It is actually the readers that are the ones that listen to the reporting, and interpret what ever meanings come from it they want.

For Marner, it is he is shopping around June 26 if Dubas does not sign him in line to the not so friendly team deals Matthews and Nylander signed. That's the message, and it was not hard to see this.

Nope. Dreger plays the game for the agent because it's hits on his social media. Take a guess at who will get to announce the Marner signing first in return. His job is to be the first to report stuff and this Marner story is the golden nugget of the summer for reporters. That's how it works and it's not that hard to see this

 

[IslandersFan17]

? It's a compounded word brought together by a hyphen

So does it mean he has one or does that compound indicate not having one?

 

[shortfuze]

How did that go?

ive always wondered why you have never become the leafs GM or a GM anywhere. i mean you can do such a better job. after the fact. after everything the GM's do whether its a mistake or not you always seem to have the right answer.

how can you sit there and say paying someone 9 million per year coming off a 69 point season is a good thing. nylander had a 61 point season and now hes overpaid because of a bad, shortened season.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Ok, so you are saying Dubas made a mistake not signing Marner befor this season for 9 million. I am now going to ask you a direct question, and i hope you don't dance around it....it will take a bit to set up the question.

In this very thread...and many others, you have absolutely trashed Dubas for massively overpaying 22 year old Nylander 6.9 million after 2 straight 60+ point years. You have said Dubase caved and got schooled by Nylander.

So now the question, after last season ,21 year old Marner had 2 straight 60+point seasons...can you please explain to everyone how Dubas failed AT THAT TIME by not signing Marner for 9 million? I mean he was pretty comparable to Nylander....no? So if Nylander is overpaid at 6.9....how is not giving 2.1 more to Marner AT THAT TIME considered a failure?

The common perception here is Nylander and his agent schooled Dubas. Don't believe me, even Dubas said he wished he had did that one better. TERÄVÄINEN was signed to a 5.4 5 year deal after Nylander. Ehlers signed for 6M under the same cap Nylander. Larkin at 6.1. BTW Nylander is closer to 7M, you keep using 6.9. 6.96 to be precise.

Good GM's get their players signed early. Ehlers was signed Oct 4. 2017 14 months before Nylander on Dec 1, 2018 same cap as RFA's. TERÄVÄINEN January 21, 2019 in season.

Kyper a source you ask for, and when presented to you, you now scoff at. Still funny. Says 72M or 9M per was on the table LAST SUMMER, but Dubas thought it was too rich. Well he should have known Marner was going to have a career year with Tavares. Not like he needed reminding, because he was over a PPG in the 2nd half of the previous year.

That's a bad read by Dubas, it will cost the Leafs cap wise, and who knows maybe even a very good player.

 

[Raymoondo]

So does it mean he has one or does that compound indicate not having one?

Neither? It's an adjective describing the clause. I'm not sure which part you're arguing about.

 

[93gilmour93]

The common perception here is Nylander and his agent schooled Dubas. Don't believe me, even Dubas said he wished he had did that one better. TERÄVÄINEN was signed to a 5.4 5 year deal after Nylander. Ehlers signed for 6M under the same cap Nylander. Larkin at 6.1. BTW Nylander is closer to 7M, you keep using 6.9. 6.96 to be precise.

Good GM's get their players signed early. Ehlers was signed Oct 4. 2017 14 months before Nylander on Dec 1, 2018 same cap as RFA's. TERÄVÄINEN January 21, 2019 in season.

Kyper a source you ask for, and when presented to you, you now scoff at. Still funny. Says 72M or 9M per was on the table, but Dubas thought it was too rich. Well he should have known Marner was going to have a career year with Tavares. Not like he needed reminding, because he was over a PPG in the 2nd half of the previous year.

That's a bad read by Dubas, it will cost the Leafs cap wise, and who knows maybe even a very good player.

A good GM wouldn't sign Brock Nelson to 6 x 6 and also what a great situation to be in that you have so many good players in your organization that you lose a middle of the pack player because of depth.

 

[IslandersFan17]

Neither? It's an adjective describing the clause. I'm not sure which part you're arguing about.

An adjective that's cognition affirms something in the negative... therefore, without being prompted, using a negative infront of it makes little colloquial sense.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Ok, so you are saying Dubas made a mistake not signing Marner befor this season for 9 million. I am now going to ask you a direct question, and i hope you don't dance around it....it will take a bit to set up the question.

In this very thread...and many others, you have absolutely trashed Dubas for massively overpaying 22 year old Nylander 6.9 million after 2 straight 60+ point years. You have said Dubase caved and got schooled by Nylander.

So now the question, after last season ,21 year old Marner had 2 straight 60+point seasons...can you please explain to everyone how Dubas failed AT THAT TIME by not signing Marner for 9 million? I mean he was pretty comparable to Nylander....no? So if Nylander is overpaid at 6.9....how is not giving 2.1 more to Marner AT THAT TIME considered a failure?

I mean, it's kind of his job to forecast what kind of player Marner will be. If he thought that Mitch was going to be a Nylander caliber player so $9 mil was too much then he thought wrong and that's a big time fail.

 

[Raymoondo]

An adjective that's cognition affirms something in the negative... therefore, without being prompted, using a negative infront of it makes little colloquial sense.

There's multiple uses of a negative word in front of a compound word with a negative prefix. No nonsense, no no-deal trade, etc. I don't see what's special about this use of it.

 

[Liferleafer]

The common perception here is Nylander and his agent schooled Dubas. Don't believe me, even Dubas said he wished he had did that one better. TERÄVÄINEN was signed to a 5.4 5 year deal after Nylander. Ehlers signed for 6M under the same cap Nylander. Larkin at 6.1. BTW Nylander is closer to 7M, you keep using 6.9. 6.96 to be precise.

Good GM's get their players signed early. Ehlers was signed Oct 4. 2017 14 months before Nylander on Dec 1, 2018 same cap as RFA's. TERÄVÄINEN January 21, 2019 in season.

Kyper a source you ask for, and when presented to you, you now scoff at. Still funny. Says 72M or 9M per was on the table LAST SUMMER, but Dubas thought it was too rich. Well he should have known Marner was going to have a career year with Tavares. Not like he needed reminding, because he was over a PPG in the 2nd half of the previous year.

That's a bad read by Dubas, it will cost the Leafs cap wise, and who knows maybe even a very good player.

Unsurprisingly...you typed a lot of garble...but didn't answer the question.

If the common perception is, as you say, that Nylander was overpaid at 6.9 after 2 straight 60+point seasons...then how can you say Dubas failed at not paying Marner 9 million after last season which was his 2nd of 60+points.

I do not care about how many contracts you think are better than Nylanders...because that makes what you said look even worse because after last season, Marner fell right into the category of those players you say are better contracts.

So, my question again, if Nylander is overpaid at 6.9 and should be making 6 or less....how is it a failure for Dubas to have not signed Marner for 9 million after last season?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

A good GM wouldn't sign Brock Nelson to 6 x 6 and also what a great situation to be in that you have so many good players in your organization that you lose a middle of the pack player because of depth.

That's not up for debate here. Now you are grasping for reasons because you cannot defend your position. The summer of 2018 for Marner and not signing him then, when 72M or 9M per was still a possibility are over. And the Leafs, Dubas and you will have to come to this realization. It was a mistake.

 

[Liferleafer]

I mean, it's kind of his job to forecast what kind of player Marner will be. If he thought that Mitch was going to be a Nylander caliber player so $9 mil was too much then he thought wrong and that's a big time fail.

Bullshit. Marner after last season was right in line with players like Nylander/TT/Pasta. If Dubas would have signed him to 9 million after posting a 69 point season...TWS would have been having a hayday telling the world how Dubas f***ed up. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it could have gone the other way as well. Dubas could have given him 9 million, and Marner could have remained a 60-70 point player.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Unsurprisingly...you typed a lot of garble...but didn't answer the question. Here, i'll dummy it down for ya....

If the common perception is, as you say, that Nylander was overpaid at 6.9 after 2 straight 60+point seasons...then how can you say Dubas failed at not paying Marner 9 million after last season which was his 2nd of 60+points.

I do not care about how many contracts you think are better than Nylanders...because that makes what you said look even worse because after last season, Marner fell right into the category of those players you say are better contracts.

So, my question again, if Nylander is overpaid at 6.9 and should be making 6 or less....how is it a failure for Dubas to have not signed Marner for 9 million after last season?

Why do you keep using 6.9 when it is 6.96M or 7M. My reply stands. Look at the comparables. To hold out and pay a guy with 7 goals last year more than TT, Larkin, Ehlers, Pasta, is absolutely a fail. Atleast Marner is a better player, but again, Dubas did not learn from the Nylander overpayment. It's June in a few days and here we are again!

 

[93gilmour93]

That's not up for debate here. Now you are grasping for reasons because you cannot defend your position. The summer of 2018 for Marner and not signing him then, when 72M or 9M per was still a possibility are over. And the Leafs, Dubas and you will have to come to this realization. It was a mistake.

I'm pretty sure if you pick up your reading skills you will see I already posted that contract looking back would have been great to sign but that's the way she goes and it will cost Toronto some more money. Not grasping at anything

 

[ToDavid]

TERÄVÄINEN was signed to a 5.4 5 year deal after Nylander. Ehlers signed for 6M under the same cap Nylander. Larkin at 6.1. BTW Nylander is closer to 7M, you keep using 6.9. 6.96 to be precise.

Teravainen, Ehlers, and Larkin all had a single breakout season under their belt when they signed their contracts. Nylander had already proven he could repeat his success and that's valuable.

Edit: I was partially wrong about TT who signed his deal mid-season this year. However, he was older than the other two.

 

[IslandersFan17]

A good GM wouldn't sign Brock Nelson to 6 x 6 and also what a great situation to be in that you have so many good players in your organization that you lose a middle of the pack player because of depth.

What's with Leafs fans grasping at straws left and right here. There is nothing wrong with Nelson's deal. The same way some Leafs fans dont flinch at the difference between nine million to potentially 10.5, is the same way I dont really care if I could have gotten Nelson at five or six...

Moreover, the move-ability of Nelson past the first two years is reasonably easy.

Dont try and drag islanders players into a Leafs player thread. Again it's a grasp at staws.

 

[Liferleafer]

That's not up for debate here. Now you are grasping for reasons because you cannot defend your position. The summer of 2018 for Marner and not signing him then, when 72M or 9M per was still a possibility are over. And the Leafs, Dubas and you will have to come to this realization. It was a mistake.

Sure it is. You want to point out how 2 time 60+ point 22 year old Nylander is overpaid? Well here's an example of why that opinion is laughable...1 time 53 point (otherwise basically 40 point) 27 year old Brock Nelson just got 6x6. Care to tell me your opinion on that signing?

 

[yababy]

I said this in another thread but the best strategy of all might be for Leafs to go for option C.

Here's what you do.

1. Consider A (signing him). If it looks like Marner wants waaay too much, more than you'd like to give, look at option B. Based on rumors - it appears that a deal isn't close, and so they're already at that stage.

2. Option B. Ask around and get a general feel for what teams are willing to trade for him. Whether actual NHL players, or picks/prospects. If you see a deal you love, sure consider it, but at the very least gauge interest and value.

3. Take the best offer/offers you get from B - and decide if those offers are worth more or less than 4 1st round picks. Remember - 4 1st round picks are extremely valuable as trade value. If you decide 4 1st round picks sounds like higher asset value than anything you were being offered with option B, then:

4. Lowball Marner. Push him towards taking an offer sheet. Once he signs an offer sheet, you have 2 options:

4A. If you want to match - match it. That's always possible depending on $$ amount.

4B. Take the 4 1st round picks. And *trade* them right away for max value. Try to get a bigger return than what trading Marner straight out looked like. I think it could happen.

I'm not a Leafs fan - but i think for Leafs fans, offer sheets don't necessarily have to be this huge negative. It could be turned around into a positive if done right.

option
D/ let Marner walk and take the 4 x 1st round picks. Sign Panarin at 8-9M

 

[Liferleafer]

What's with Leafs fans grasping at straws left and right here. There is nothing wrong with Nelson's deal. The same way some Leafs fans dont flinch at the difference between nine million to potentially 10.5, is the same way I dont really care if I could have gotten Nelson at five or six...

Moreover, the move-ability of Nelson past the first two years is reasonably easy.

Dont try and drag islanders players into a Leafs player thread. Again it's a grasp at staws.

Excellent....grab your newest Islanders fan (TWS) and drag him home and we won't even mention the Isles.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Nope. Reporters report. They work for their news organization. They do not broker deals with agents and players. They are not middle men. Dreger actually works for the people that follow hockey, and like it or not he has multiple sources. It is actually the readers that are the ones that listen to the reporting, and interpret what ever meanings come from it they want.

Which would still make him a middle man?

 

[IslandersFan17]

Excellent....grab your newest Islanders fan (TWS) and drag him home and we won't even mention the Isles.

Thats a lie.

 

[mydnyte]

I'm sorry but Dubas has ALL the leverage... on June 26, send out a memo saying present your best offer for Marner ...an under 22 or NHL ready top pair potential RHD, a 1st rd pick and top prospect as min bid (that is the buy in price)
...on June 30th, if no deal signed, Marner is traded to the best offer, case closed, and Dubas's lights up a Glen Sather stogie.

 

[93gilmour93]

Which would still make him a middle man?

Imagine that