Miscellaneous NHL Talk XIX

[Ryker]

Despite the loyalty Holland & Babcock have towards Cleary that should have been enough up show them that Cleary isn't needed there anymore. You can site leadership but that's pretty much a polite way of admitting a player doesn't have much use when it comes to actually playing hockey especially on a team with the likes of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Kronwall, Howard, etc.

I never was a fan of Cleary's on-ice play, but I never thought he was terrible, and all I'm saying is that other things are important, as well, and that a whopping $1.5 million doesn't bootstrap their team.

 

[Ryker]

It's one thing to deviate from the group think, but don't proclaim yourself some bastion of individuality because you're standing alone on an island here.

How am I standing alone on an island? I see other people saying it's not a terrible deal, either.

Even Holland himself implied that he would not have made this deal if he did not give Cleary his word last summer.

Sure, you can interpret the quote that way if you want.

You admitted yourself that you have no idea how bad Cleary was. So WTF is your point if you admittedly don't know what you're talking about?

My point is that it's a whopping $1.5 million for a player that seems to bring leadership and is liked by both the management and the coach. It also seems to be about loyalty, which, as I said, is good to have in sports and makes for likeable franchises. As for not having an idea how bad Cleary was, yeah, sure, I can't say for sure, because I haven't seen enough games. That's why I only have a tentative opinion about his on-ice play, built from past seasons, as well. From that I gathered that he's not really all that good, but not terrible, either. So if he can bring other stuff to the team, then I don't think it's a terrible signing. Certainly better than signing Stortini

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I never was a fan of Cleary's on-ice play, but I never thought he was terrible, and all I'm saying is that other things are important, as well, and that a whopping $1.5 million doesn't bootstrap their team.

It's not in that sense but it's still an unnecessary signing. Detroit has had a good prospect pool for a while now yet don't trust these kids enough to throw them in there early when they appear to be ready & potentially reap rewards for that like the rest of the league has been doing since the first lockout. This signing just proves that.

 

[flyguy]

This is no longer a league where loyalty is a factor in anything, and that goes for both sides of the negotiating table. The Wings are the only recent exception to this. Whether bringing Cleary back for another year turns out to be detrimental or not, the majority of GMs in this league would not have risked it, especially at the cost of not bringing up an NHL ready prospect.

 

[Random Forest]

Yeah, maybe if Stortini was going to be on the NHL roster taking time away from Laughton or an NHL ready kid. But he's not, so it appears your point has fallen flat once again.

 

[Ryker]

Yeah, maybe if Stortini was going to be on the NHL roster taking time away from Laughton or an NHL ready kid. But he's not, so it appears your point has fallen flat once again.

I was using Stortini as a side remark of signing a completely useless player, not to validate anything in regards to Cleary. It has more to do with me just not liking Stortini, no point was to be made with that.

This is no longer a league where loyalty is a factor in anything, and that goes for both sides of the negotiating table. The Wings are the only recent exception to this. Whether bringing Cleary back for another year turns out to be detrimental or not, the majority of GMs in this league would not have risked it, especially at the cost of not bringing up an NHL ready prospect.

Yeah, the majority of GMs probably wouldn't have risked it, that's true.

 

[Curufinwe]

Yeah, maybe if Stortini was going to be on the NHL roster taking time away from Laughton or an NHL ready kid. But he's not, so it appears your point has fallen flat once again.

I was about to ask who you were talking to, then realized I must have him on ignore.

 

[Garbage Goal]

Cleary signing was terrible. The roster spot and cap space alone helped prevent them from bringing up guys like Nyqvuist and Tatar and then once they were called up halfway through the season it boosted them into a solid playoff spot.

They're doing the exact same thing this season in regards to being close to the cap and signing old, relatively useless players to roster spots (namely Cleary and Quincey). It's as simple as that.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Sam Reinhart just signed, he got the max ELC at $925K & $2.65M in potential performance bonuses.

Kapanen, him, & Honka are all signed thus far I would imagine the domino effect will continue these next couple of days.

Edit: The Caps also signed an 18 year goalie they took in the second round who's not even playing in the top Czech league next year for whatever reason.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=161469

Edit 2: Apparently he's coming over to play in the minors most likely the ECHL but still pretty unusual.

 

[Garbage Goal]

Buffalo doesn't really have to give a crap about contracts with the scorched Earth rebuild, but it's probably not smart to give your just drafted rookie the max money possible even just for development.

 

[Random Forest]

Columbus has a D prospect Mike Reilly (U of Minnesota) who apparently has rejected turning pro this year. He was lost in Ghost's shadow at the Frozen Four, but he was still really impressive, and had a very strong year overall.

He will probably sign in Columbus after all, but he's a guy to keep an eye on. 29 teams will be looking to poach him if the opportunity presents itself. Apparently he was drafted at 5'9 155 lbs, and he's now up to 6'1 186 lbs.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Columbus has a D prospect Mike Reilly (U of Minnesota) who apparently has rejected turning pro this year. He was lost in Ghost's shadow at the Frozen Four, but he was still really impressive, and had a very strong year overall.

He will probably sign in Columbus after all, but he's a guy to keep an eye on. 29 teams will be looking to poach him if the opportunity presents itself. Apparently he was drafted at 5'9 155 lbs, and he's now up to 6'1 186 lbs.

Pretty sure they hold his rights for 2 more seasons (or until he finishes college). Solid prospect. Known more for his offense when he was drafted, but has developed a two-way game. Really caught my eye at the WJCs. Really good skater. Not nearly as dynamic as Gostisbehere but can move the puck.

I would be willing to bet he signs after his junior year next season, like most highly touted college prospects.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Pretty sure they hold his rights for 2 more seasons (or until he finishes college). Solid prospect. Known more for his offense when he was drafted, but has developed a two-way game. Really caught my eye at the WJCs. Really good skater. Not nearly as dynamic as Gostisbehere but can move the puck.

I would be willing to bet he signs after his junior year next season, like most highly touted college prospects.

He played in the BCHL for a year after being drafted before heading to Minnesota. He's going into his fourth year after being drafted next year so it's a similar loophole potentially like Justin Schultz.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=106295

 

[Random Forest]

He played in the BCHL for a year after being drafted before heading to Minnesota. He's going into his fourth year after being drafted next year so it's a similar loophole potentially like Justin Schultz.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=106295

This is what I thought. I know he hasn't made any indication that he won't sign with Columbus, but it definitely makes a fan anxious when a prospect opts not to sign when it'll take them right to the end of their rights being held by the team.

Just the thought of Ghost going back for his senior year had lots of people on here genuinely worried.

 

[FLYguy3911]

He played in the BCHL for a year after being drafted before heading to Minnesota. He's going into his fourth year after being drafted next year so it's a similar loophole potentially like Justin Schultz.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=106295

This is what I thought. I know he hasn't made any indication that he won't sign with Columbus, but it definitely makes a fan anxious when a prospect opts not to sign when it'll take them right to the end of their rights being held by the team.

Just the thought of Ghost going back for his senior year had lots of people on here genuinely worried.

They closed the loophole with the last CBA. Not completely, but they made it harder and less likely to happen. He has to wait until his college class "graduates" and then he would become a FA August 15th of that year (2016). Doesn't seem like a great career move to hang in college that long for a player of his caliber.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

They closed the loophole with the last CBA. Not completely, but they made it harder and less likely to happen. He has to wait until his college class "graduates" and then he would become a FA August 15th of that year (2016). Doesn't seem like a great career move to hang in college that long for a player of his caliber.

Oh alright, wasn't sure if they actually did something about that or not.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Wrong thread, please delete.

 

[Random Forest]

They closed the loophole with the last CBA. Not completely, but they made it harder and less likely to happen. He has to wait until his college class "graduates" and then he would become a FA August 15th of that year (2016). Doesn't seem like a great career move to hang in college that long for a player of his caliber.

Are you sure? Here's the relevant clause in the CBA:

If a Player drafted at age 18 or 19, who had received a Bona Fide Offer in
accordance with Section 8.6(a)(ii) above, becomes a bona fide college
student prior to the second June 1 following his selection in the Entry
Draft and does not remain a bona fide college student through the
graduation of his college class, his drafting Club shall retain exclusive
rights for the negotiation of his services until the later of: (a) the fourth
June 1 following his selection in the Entry Draft, or (b) thirty (30) days
after NHL Central Registry receives notice that the Player is no longer a
bona fide college student; provided that if the Player ceases to be a bona
fide college student on or after January 1 of an academic year and the
Player: (1) is in his fourth year of college and has commenced his fourth
year of NCAA eligibility, or (2) is in his fourth year of college and is
scheduled to graduate from college at the end of his fourth year, then in
the circumstances described in (1) or (2), the Club shall retain the
exclusive right of negotiation for such Player's services through and
including the August 15 following the date on which he ceases to be a
bona fide college student.

...

For purposes of the above provisions, the term "graduation of his college
class" shall mean the class with which the Player is scheduled to graduate
during his final semester of attendance (as opposed to his matriculating
class (the class with which he is expected to graduate as of the date of his
original enrollment)). For purposes of clarity, a Player's graduating class
may change during his tenure in college.

That to me interprets as "You're free to go on the fourth June 1st from your draft". I'm no lawyer, though.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Are you sure? Here's the relevant clause in the CBA:




That to me interprets as "You're free to go on the fourth June 1st from your draft". I'm no lawyer, though.

Read the lines after the bold.

 

[Random Forest]

Read the lines after the bold.

That stuff only applies to players in their fourth year of college.

 

[Ryker]

That stuff only applies to players in their fourth year of college.

b) applies regardless. Just not the "provided that..." part.

 

[Random Forest]

b) applies regardless. Just not the "provided that..." part.

Right, that's what I mean.

b) doesn't apply in the circumstance we're talking about, though (Reilly leaving college after his season is over).

 

[FLYguy3911]

That stuff only applies to players in their fourth year of college.

It says:

his drafting Club shall retain exclusive
rights for the negotiation of his services until the later of

 

[Random Forest]

It says:

Right. So if he leaves college next year, then it's either 30 days after that date or June 1st (the later of the two).

For example, if he leaves college in April, then it would June 1st, 2015 that he becomes available.

That part only matters if he leaves officially leaves college after June 1st, 2015 (which isn't likely to be the case).

 

[Ryker]

b) applies regardless. Just not the "provided that..." part.

Oh OK, I don't know the specifics of Reilly's college situation, and how long he's been studying for.