Miscellaneous NHL Talk XIX

[Striiker]

What if Hextall signed Adam Hall to a $2.5 million contract and Berube was going to play him on the 3rd line and second PP unit?

And then add on to that it stops a much better young player from being on the lineup. Very bad signing.

 

[Curufinwe]

Some amazing photoshops by angry Detroit fans.

 

[Chinatown88]

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun 6m

Dubinsky deal's in Columbus: $5.85 M AAV per year and includes no-move, no-trade clauses

He got paid.

 

[flyershockey]

That's a lot of coin for a middle six center.

Edit: I would be lying if I said that I didn't like Dubisnky.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Columbus is at a stage similar to the Nationals with Werth. They've gotta just pay out the nose for a couple guys to try and establish themselves.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

Dubinsky appears to be Mr. Blue Jacket now. Columbus is a really good market with a passionate fanbase, I really want them to succeed.

 

[Danko]

Dubinsky had a hell of a playoff series against pitt. However 5.8 is a lot

 

[flyershockey]

Columbus is at a stage similar to the Nationals with Werth. They've gotta just pay out the nose for a couple guys to try and establish themselves.

I had this exact same conversation with a friend whose an Islanders fan. The Nationals had a lot of talent before the Werth signing, but no one took them serious until they overpaid for him. Sure, it wasn't the greatest contract in the world, but it served notice to the rest of MLB that the Nationals weren't the kid brother team anymore. They were ready to do whatever it takes to win a world series.

 

[Bryz4shiz]

Eh that contract is a little long, but $5.8 for a player like Dubinsky is clearly the norm now.

 

[Mkoll]

Dubinsky appears to be Mr. Blue Jacket now. Columbus is a really good market with a passionate fanbase, I really want them to succeed.

Me too, but only up to a point. Not at the expense of the Flyers.

 

[Ryker]

What if Hextall signed Adam Hall to a $2.5 million contract and Berube was going to play him on the 3rd line and second PP unit?

That would be bad. Good thing the two situations are not comparable.

 

[Striiker]

That would be bad. Good thing the two situations are not comparable.

The point is a player who isn't worth much is being paid too much to take a bigger role than he deserves, which also stops younger/better players from having a spot.

 

[Random Forest]

And Detroit also had every single wing spot filled in addition to having multiple guys ready to battle for roles on the team.

Throwing Cleary in the mix just means they have one more body who is inferior to the handful of guys already battling for limited spots.

He only got a contract because that's what Holland promised him last summer. Not on merit or utility.

 

[Flyotes]

This is the wrong kind of loyalty and not good business.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I certainly don't agree with the signing, but it certainly doesn't put Holland on Edmonton or Islanders levels of incompetence like Red Wing fans are trying to say.

 

[flyershockey]

Holland hasn't been that great lately, but this sounds like a Babcock move more than anything. Babcock loves the guy.

As for Holland, the Weiss, Howard and Quincy deals have all been bad recent signings.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I certainly don't agree with the signing, but it certainly doesn't put Holland on Edmonton or Islanders levels of incompetence like Red Wing fans are trying to say.

The Vanek situation was still one of the biggest blunders in recent years with potential to get even worse. I simply can't overlook that therefore Snow is one of the worst GM's in the league for money.

I still think they miss the playoffs next year (which is a common occurrence under Snow). I'm not too impressed with their offseason. I don't think Halak is a frontline starter in this league anymore, I think he's overrated on here from playing with the Blues & splitting the crease there with Elliot.

 

[Garbage Goal]

The Islanders might be a decent team, but they still won't be an actual threat for winning anything probably.

Holland has had an atrocious off-season and for all the praise he gets for finding hidden gems in the draft, he really hasn't handled the aging of the roster well. Will be interesting to see how Detroit performs.

 

[Curufinwe]

They also have Franzen and Zetterberg on dangerous contracts.

 

[Ryker]

The point is a player who isn't worth much is being paid too much to take a bigger role than he deserves, which also stops younger/better players from having a spot.

Yeah, and my point is you don't know what role he will play next year. And who exactly are those younger/better players he's stealing spots from? I think Jurco will have a bigger role this year, and there's as much, if not more, reason to believe that than it is to pencil Cleary into a third line/2nd PP/Babcock's best buddy role. I mean, he was a rookie last year, so I don't know what you guys expected, and even as a rookie he had more PP time than Cleary. But alright, if the latter wasn't on the team, maybe Mursak would still be with Detroit, so from that perspective I'm a bit pissed, as well.

And Detroit also had every single wing spot filled in addition to having multiple guys ready to battle for roles on the team.

Throwing Cleary in the mix just means they have one more body who is inferior to the handful of guys already battling for limited spots.

He only got a contract because that's what Holland promised him last summer. Not on merit or utility.

It seems they like what he brings to the team, so that's getting the job on merit. Who says it has to be only about on-ice performance? To me, it's cool they value players who have been with them for a long time. And locker room presence is real. Anyone who has played team sports or even participated in a group project unrelated to sports will know the importance of motivation and positive attitude. Certainly individual performance is worse when someone is down in the dumps or devastated with how things are going. I don't know whether Cleary is a catalyst that with his presence motivates other players or not, but it seems to me Babcock and Holland believe he is.

And, frankly, you guys know **** about how he played last season. Neither do I, but I'm not afraid to admit it, because I haven't been watching him throughout the entirety of the season.

So I guess I should amend my statement. I won't say it's a good signing, but I won't say it's a bad one, either. I just don't know. It just doesn't seem in any way terrible to me. The young guns will have their chance to prove themselves, and you really don't know what role Cleary will have until the season gets going.

 

[Random Forest]

So I guess I should amend my statement. I won't say it's a good signing, but I won't say it's a bad one, either. I just don't know. It just doesn't seem in any way terrible to me. The young guns will have their chance to prove themselves, and you really don't know what role Cleary will have until the season gets going.

You don't have to. Nor do I. Holland already heavily implied it in his statement after the signing:

"My program has been one of loyalty, and there's good things and bad things that go with that. Way more good, in my opinion."


Yeah, that's a strong endorsement of the deal. Cleary only got a contract because Holland promised that "he would be taken care of next year" when he turned down the Flyers offer last summer. That's not speculation or conjecture.

Don't know why you want to be so contrarian about it. It's pretty much unanimously regarded as a move that does the Wings no good and only happened because of Holland's loyalty towards Cleary.

EDIT: And speak for yourself. I watched more than enough of the Wings to know Cleary was grade A crap all year.

 

[Garbage Goal]

You don't have to. Nor do I. Holland already heavily implied it in his statement after the signing:

"My program has been one of loyalty, and there's good things and bad things that go with that. Way more good, in my opinion."


Yeah, that's a strong endorsement of the deal. Cleary only got a contract because Holland promised that "he would be taken care of next year" when he turned down the Flyers offer last summer. That's not speculation or conjecture.

Don't know why you want to be so contrarian about it. It's pretty much unanimously regarded as a move that does the Wings no good and only happened because of Holland's loyalty towards Cleary.

EDIT: And speak for yourself. I watched more than enough of the Wings to know Cleary was grade A crap all year.

He really likes to play the role of contrarion.

 

[Ryker]

Yeah, that's a strong endorsement of the deal. Cleary only got a contract because Holland promised that "he would be taken care of next year" when he turned down the Flyers offer last summer. That's not speculation or conjecture.

How is it not speculation or conjecture? Because some article stated it as fact, and went into incredible detail about it by saying "the Wings would take care of Cleary this summer"? By the way, that same article also said he verbally agreed to a three-year $8.25 million contract with the Flyers last year.

Oh, and the article also mentioned Cleary was a healthy scratch in January, so it's weird that he is now for sure playing on the third line and the second powerplay unit.

Don't know why you want to be so contrarian about it. It's pretty much unanimously regarded as a move that does the Wings no good and only happened because of Holland's loyalty towards Cleary.

So I have to go with group think or the opinion of people who are most vocal on the message boards? Loyalty is a good thing in sports, in my opinion. Makes it less of a business.

EDIT: And speak for yourself. I watched more than enough of the Wings to know Cleary was grade A crap all year.

OK. That's probably why he got scratched then.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Yeah the Wings likely don't go on that run & ultimately make the playoffs last year if Cleary didn't go down with an injury opening up a spot for Nyquist.

Despite the loyalty Holland & Babcock have towards Cleary that should have been enough to show them that Cleary isn't needed there anymore. You can site leadership but that's pretty much a polite way of admitting a player doesn't have much use when it comes to actually playing hockey especially on a team with the likes of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Kronwall, Howard, etc.

It's a young mans game now a days & Detroit hasn't joined the rest of the league on the front yet.

 

[Random Forest]

How is it not speculation or conjecture? Because some article stated it as fact, and went into incredible detail about it by saying "the Wings would take care of Cleary this summer"? By the way, that same article also said he verbally agreed to a three-year $8.25 million contract with the Flyers last year.

Oh, and the article also mentioned Cleary was a healthy scratch in January, so it's weird that he is now for sure playing on the third line and the second powerplay unit.

So I have to go with group think or the opinion of people who are most vocal on the message boards? Loyalty is a good thing in sports, in my opinion. Makes it less of a business.

OK. That's probably why he got scratched then.

It's one thing to deviate from the group think, but don't proclaim yourself some bastion of individuality because you're standing alone on an island here.

Even Holland himself implied that he would not have made this deal if he did not give Cleary his word last summer.

You admitted yourself that you have no idea how bad Cleary was. So WTF is your point if you admittedly don't know what you're talking about?