Miscellaneous NHL Talk XIX

[onlylordsvsmorebp]

After the Cleary signing the majority on the main board has anointed Ken Holland worse than Garth Snow.

the winner and new chumpion....

 

[Flyotes]

After the Cleary signing the majority on the main board has anointed Ken Holland worse than Garth Snow.

They're absolutely losing their minds. Great thread.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

the winner and new chumpion....

I actually think Dave Nonis (Toronto GM) is the worst in the league followed by Garth Snow. Dale Tallon (Florida GM), Brian MacLellan (Washington GM), Jim Rutherford (Pittsburgh GM), David Poile (Nashville GM), & Craig MacTavish (Edmonton GM) are all pretty horrible in my opinion. Glen Sather (New York R GM) & Lou Lamoriello (New Jersey GM) are both past their prime, the latter still gets talked about like it's the late 90's/early 2000's despite making dumb moves on the regular now a days.

Holland's pretty average in my opinion & definitely prone to making a dumb move like we saw today here & there but he always keeps the prospect pool stocked & his teams get some good results.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

They're absolutely losing their minds. Great thread.

Indeed, like I said above the guy is prone to making a dumb move here & there but there's still a lot of dumber GM's in this league than Holland.

 

[Flyotes]

If Garth Snow were the GM I'd simply quit following hockey. It's why I could never get into (and now loathe) the Phillies. Ed Wade and Reuben? This city deserves better.

 

[healthyscratch]

If Garth Snow were the GM I'd simply quit following hockey. It's why I could never get into (and now loathe) the Phillies. Ed Wade and Reuben? This city deserves better.

Ed Wade deserves a lot of the credit for the '08 World Series. Gillick came in and topped it off, but the base was all Wade's regime.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Ed Wade deserves a lot of the credit for the '08 World Series. Gillick came in and topped it off, but the base was all Wade's regime.

He kept Utley & Howard despite their names being rumored a lot when younger so he deserves credit for that but I still don't think they win a WS with him in there over Gillick. Gillick's small moves were money like taking a flyer on Jayson Werth. The trade for Lidge was big as well although that wasn't a small move. The building of the bullpen & who could forget Matt Stairs.

 

[Ryker]

I don't get it. What exactly is so upsetting about the Cleary signing?

 

[BernieParent]

yah couldnt tell by the pictures...but just assumed they would involve cooperalls.

... and nothing underneath.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I don't get it. What exactly is so upsetting about the Cleary signing?

I think it's a real testament to how good Holland has been for so long that the Cleary signing is apparently the most disastrous thing to happen to Detroit lately.

 

[Random Forest]

I don't get it. What exactly is so upsetting about the Cleary signing?

They have several younger players who have proven themselves capable of holding down a roster spot, and he is only getting in the way. It also doesn't help that Babcock insists on giving him fairly significant roles (3rd line + PP time) that he is no longer suited for.

He's pretty much no longer an NHL caliber player. If he were nothing more than a fourth line guy or a 13th forward, I'd say they're being overly dramatic, but that's not going to be the case. Both Holland and Babcock adore the guy.

 

[Ryker]

He's pretty much no longer an NHL caliber player. If he were nothing more than a fourth line guy or a 13th forward, I'd say they're being overly dramatic, but that's not going to be the case. Both Holland and Babcock adore the guy.

Well, maybe wait until the season starts before making ASSumptions then? Based on the HBO series, he also seems to be one of the leaders in their locker room.

 

[Random Forest]

Well, maybe wait until the season starts before making ASSumptions then? Based on the HBO series, he also seems to be one of the leaders in their locker room.

And Hartnell was one of the leaders in ours. Sometimes tough decisions need to be made, and cutting Cleary is one of those. He's not an effective NHLer anymore, and he's only taking up space from more effective players.

 

[Ryker]

And Hartnell was one of the leaders in ours. Sometimes tough decisions need to be made, and cutting Cleary is one of those. He's not an effective NHLer anymore, and he's only taking up space from more effective players.

Sure, I agree.

Oh, and what are the starting lines for Detroit opening day then?

 

[Random Forest]

Sure, I agree.

Oh, and what are the starting lines for Detroit opening day then?

No clue, but I can tell you there are at least 12 or 13 more effective players than Cleary in Detroit's system, though. Probably a handful more, actually.

 

[Ryker]

No clue, but I can tell you there are at least 12 or 13 more effective players than Cleary in Detroit's system, though.

What do you mean, no clue? Surely this information must be out there. It would be strange for Babcock, who is generally considered an outstanding coach, to make a firm decision on a fringe player so far in advance, but leave the rest up in the air.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Detriot fans are mad because they believe that Jurco would be the odd man out & sent back down to the minors with this signing. It also would mean that Mantha likely won't be in the mix neither.

 

[kyuss]

And Hartnell was one of the leaders in ours. Sometimes tough decisions need to be made, and cutting Cleary is one of those. He's not an effective NHLer anymore, and he's only taking up space from more effective players.

Total speculation on my part, but I think Cleary may be the anti-Hartsy. I get the feeling Babcock points at Cleary in TC and tells the youngsters they need to do everything better than him if they hope to make the team. I think one of the reasons Hartnell was traded was to rid the team of complacency.

Babcock seems to be very leery of young players.

 

[Ryker]

Detriot fans are mad because they believe that Jurco would be the odd man out & sent back down to the minors with this signing. It also would mean that Mantha likely won't be in the mix neither.

Yeah, that wouldn't be good, I'd also like to see Jurco play more. I guess'll they see whether they cried wolf in a couple of months, though.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Yeah, that wouldn't be good, I'd also like to see Jurco play more. I guess'll they see whether they cried wolf in a couple of months, though.

I doubt it. They were pissed last year & Cleary didn't prove them wrong.

 

[Random Forest]

What do you mean, no clue? Surely this information must be out there. It would be strange for Babcock, who is generally considered an outstanding coach, to make a firm decision on a fringe player so far in advance, but leave the rest up in the air.

I'm sure it is, but the thing about Babcock is that he doesn't give significant opportunity to young players until he absolutely has to. Gustav Nyqvist's prolific rookie season was delayed precisely because they brought Cleary back last summer.

I doubt their lineup is firmly locked down, but if Babcock's history is taken into account, it's certainly a likely scenario that Cleary gets a roster spot over a player like Jurco.

 

[Ryker]

I'm sure it is, but the thing about Babcock is that he doesn't give significant opportunity to young players until he absolutely has to. Gustav Nyqvist's prolific rookie season was delayed precisely because they brought Cleary back last summer.

I doubt their lineup is firmly locked down, but if Babcock's history is taken into account, it's certainly a likely scenario that Cleary gets a roster spot over a player like Jurco.

Yeah, as I said, if that were to happen, I might be annoyed if I was a Red Wings fan, as well. But I don't think the signing itself is anything to get upset about, and those fans should just relax and wait for what happens instead of *****ing about it at this point in time.

 

[Random Forest]

Yeah, as I said, if that were to happen, I might be annoyed if I was a Red Wings fan, as well. But I don't think the signing itself is anything to get upset about, and those fans should just relax and wait for what happens instead of *****ing about it at this point in time.

Yeah, I don't disagree with you-- I just think they're annoyed that Holland even gave Babcock the option to make that choice.

The way I see it is, how would this board react if Holmgren or Hextall had re-extended Meszaros? Probably not too well. Just the thought gives me chills.

 

[Ryker]

The way I see it is, how would this board react if Holmgren or Hextall had re-extended Meszaros? Probably not too well. Just the thought gives me chills.

I don't know, I see this situation more comparable to us signing, say, Gagne for reasonably cheap. The majority would probably still oppose it, but I don't think the reaction would be too overwhelming. Plus, there would probably be a lot of posters that wouldn't mind the signing, if only to see Gagne retire as a Flyer. And Cleary has been with Detroit for a long time, so he's not just some random guy, either.

 

[Curufinwe]

What if Hextall signed Adam Hall to a $2.5 million contract and Berube was going to play him on the 3rd line and second PP unit?