Player Discussion Mikkel Boedker

[Sensinitis]

Boedker shoots left & is listed as a LWer which is where you correctly placed him. I expect that they trade Pyatt, Paajarvi, one of Smith or Pageau or both, Wideman & whoever else he is able to move including a goalie leading up to the trade deadline to make room for the younger players. I also think that Tkachuck, Brown & Batherson get their 9 games before being sent down to the minors. I expect that Formenton will be returned to junior after a few games too.

I assume the roster that starts the season will be vastly different from the roster that ends the season, at least I hope so & Ottawa has moved at least half a dozen players. IMO there are two forward positions open to start the yr & White has one of those to lose & one defensive spot which I think is Wolanin's to lose. Paul should be given every opportunity to win & keep the other forward spot given his age & time with the org, up to him to keep it or go back to the AHL.

After the nine game stint for the rookies:
Boedker - Duchene - Stone
Dzingel - Pageau - Ryan
Paajarvi - White - Pyatt
Paul - Smith - McCormick/

Chabot - EK
Wolanin - Ceci
Boro - Wideman/Harpur

Anderson - Condon

There is no way Pageau is traded, he is one of the players that management wants everyone to model their game after, and after having traded Brassard it is necessary to keep him as a vet to help insulate the young centers Brown, White, Chlapik.

I appreciate you listing Smith as one of the guys that should be traded, from the bottom of my heart

 

[aragorn]

9 games means nothing to Batherson or Brown. They're 20 and their contract can't slide.

That's true, I guess Tkachuk & Formenton are the only two of significance that are effected by the rule.

 

[aragorn]

There is no way Pageau is traded, he is one of the players that management wants everyone to model their game after, and after having traded Brassard it is necessary to keep him as a vet to help insulate the young centers Brown, White, Chlapik.

I appreciate you listing Smith as one of the guys that should be traded, from the bottom of my heart

If not this yr next. IMO Pageau's days are numbered if one of the young guys can play to his level. Let's face it, Pageau like everyone else on this team last yr had a crappy yr too, no where as effective as past seasons & lacks the offence to his game needed. He might bring more than Smith back in any deal which would make him more appealing to deal. Ottawa has Brown, White, Chlapik, Paul, Batherson & Luchuk all coming who can play centre that could all bring more offence with their games. I just don't see Pageau in any future lineup with the Sens given the guys who are coming.

Chlapik - Duchene - Stone
Luchuk - Brown - Ryan
Tkachuk - White - Batherson
Formenton - Paul - Nurmi/Gagné

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

If not this yr next. IMO Pageau's days are numbered if one of the young guys can play to his level. Let's face it, Pageau like everyone else on this team last yr had a crappy yr too, no where as effective as past seasons & lacks the offence to his game needed. He might bring more than Smith back in any deal which would make him more appealing to deal. Ottawa has Brown, White, Chlapik, Paul, Batherson & Luchuk all coming who can play centre that could all bring more offence with their games. I just don't see Pageau in any future lineup with the Sens given the guys who are coming.

Chlapik - Duchene - Stone
Luchuk - Brown - Ryan
Tkachuk - White - Batherson
Formenton - Paul - Nurmi/Gagné

The only way they're trading Pageau this year is if its money related. If they need the money to sign Duchene then its no big deal but we lack NHL ready Cs in the organization, I doubt Pageau is going anywhere for what he provides for his price tag both on and off the ice.

Realistically Duchene is gone by the deadline and 44 will be needed even more to stabilize that position with only a handful of experienced NHL Cs available to the team and the team hopefully won't want to rush prospects into vacant positions and let them develop at their own pace in the minors.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

There is no way Pageau is traded, he is one of the players that management wants everyone to model their game after, and after having traded Brassard it is necessary to keep him as a vet to help insulate the young centers Brown, White, Chlapik.

I appreciate you listing Smith as one of the guys that should be traded, from the bottom of my heart

I think we trade Pageau next off season after pumping up his value by using him in a more offensive role.

He's a UFA in July 2020. With the way the salary cap is going, he is going to cost between 4M-6M to keep depending on his numbers. Look at Bonino and Hanzal as examples of what top level 3Cs get, now if Pageau can score at a near 50 point pace, he'll set himself up to get 5M or 6M because of where the cap is at and how in demand centers are as free agents.

So assuming Pageau has a big season where he puts up near 50 points as our 2C, our option will be to either pay Pageau like a 2C, and then be confident enough in his ability to play like a 2C for the next 4-6 years after that contract is signed, or sell high on him and get a return that will probably be close to what we got for Brassard (1st+Prospect+Other piece).

I think the Senators long term plan is to have Duchene as the expensive 1C, and then Brown and White as cheap RFAs down the middle. I can't see us as a budget team paying Pageau 4M+ to be our 3C, that's just not something a budget team can afford to do. If Pageau cements himself as a legit top 6 forward, then the price tag goes up, but the odds of us keeping him I think slightly go up, or at least it gets interesting. There's more of an argument for paying Pageau 6M if he can put up 55 points consistently as a solid 2 way 2C than there would be to pay Pageau 4.5M as a 35 point shutdown guy. For a cap team, that would be find, but a budget team can't pay their shutdown 3C that much.

I really think Pageau is going to break out, and that as long as something crazy doesn't happen like Logan Brown cementing himself as the 2C, 50 points for Pageau is not out of the question. He's put up 43 points in a full season before, and when Turris was hurt a few years back was one of our top scorers from the point that he was put on one of our top two lines.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Why do we have to trade Pageau? I think we just keep him instead. He'll be a great 3rd line centre who can step up when needed and battles in the playoffs. He's not pricey either so I see no reason for him to be traded.

 

[aragorn]

The only way they're trading Pageau this year is if its money related. If they need the money to sign Duchene then its no big deal but we lack NHL ready Cs in the organization, I doubt Pageau is going anywhere for what he provides for his price tag both on and off the ice.

Realistically Duchene is gone by the deadline and 44 will be needed even more to stabilize that position with only a handful of experienced NHL Cs available to the team and the team hopefully won't want to rush prospects into vacant positions and let them develop at their own pace in the minors.

Mind if I disagree. They seemed to have given up quite a bit to bring in a star player like Duschene & took a lot of flack for it potentially giving Col a shot at the #1 overall next yr. I doubt they move him this quickly after all that hype & IMO if they give him a fair offer I think he stays for a few more yrs regardless of what is going on & it's close to his home. It's more likely that they will move one of Ryan, Anderson & EK at some point to open up lots of cap space to pay Duchene & Stone all they want. IMO dealing Pageau is part of the out with the old & in with the new scenario that should be playing out this season.

 

[Sensinitis]

IMO dealing Pageau is part of the out with the old & in with the new scenario that should be playing out this season.

That scenario is silly if all you're doing is getting rid of the "old". There has to be some sort of more evolved mental process in there. For everything he offers on and off the ice, Pageau is a keeper until proven otherwise.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Why do we have to trade Pageau? I think we just keep him instead. He'll be a great 3rd line centre who can step up when needed and battles in the playoffs. He's not pricey either so I see no reason for him to be traded.

Depends what he wants on his next contract. He only has two year left. He also would have value in a trade. I don’t want to move him, but I could see it happening at some point.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Depends what he wants on his next contract. He only has two year left. He also would have value in a trade. I don’t want to move him, but I could see it happening at some point.

Agreed. Pageau has value to the team when he is cheap. we have to remember, as much as we love his heroics against Montreal, he is till a 3rd liner. Once you start getting into the $3.5 mil range and up, he loses a ton of value for what he brings to a team.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Agreed. Pageau has value to the team when he is cheap. we have to remember, as much as we love his heroics against Montreal, he is till a 3rd liner. Once you start getting into the $3.5 mil range and up, he loses a ton of value for what he brings to a team.

You don’t want to go down the same road they did with Fisher and start paying a third liner over 4 million a year. I also wonder if White will be Pageau’s replacement at some point.

 

[Tuna99]

You don’t want to go down the same road they did with Fisher and start paying a third liner over 4 million a year. I also wonder if White will be Pageau’s replacement at some point.

Fisher wasn't a 3rd liner.

 

[NyQuil]

Fisher wasn't a 3rd liner.

 

[Icelevel]

17 goals 26 assists
Let’s see if I’m right

 

[topshelf15]

I dont mind him...But like all the others,him being the main piece in return for a goalscorer is where my view is a little jaded....Man alive please stop trading with Doug f***en Wilson,that guy bends us over every f***en time...Just once I would like us to repay the favor

 

[Clayonator]

In regards to Pageau, he can also play RW if necessary. I don’t really see the point in trading him just to unclog centre depth for the sake of Brown/White/Chlapik. Just slide him over and/or drop him down.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Fisher wasn't a 3rd liner.

Umm, yes he was. A very good one. He played on our second line because we didn’t have anyone else. We briefly filled that hole with Comrie and then Cullen a few years after that, but really, Fisher was best suited in the 3c spot imo.

 

[swiftwin]

Why do we have to trade Pageau? I think we just keep him instead. He'll be a great 3rd line centre who can step up when needed and battles in the playoffs. He's not pricey either so I see no reason for him to be traded.

Because every year people think we can trade everyone and fill the team with prospects and somehow be better. Remember when Kaigorodov, Nikulin, etc were locks to make the team and be amazing?

Pageau is a fine 2C. He was our top point getter in 2016 when Turris got hurt. He rarely gets a chance to play in an offensive role. When he does, he performs well.

 

[BonkTastic]

Umm, yes he was. A very good one. He played on our second line because we didn’t have anyone else. We briefly filled that hole with Comrie and then Cullen a few years after that, but really, Fisher was best suited in the 3c spot imo.

He was a 4-time 20 goal scorer with us, while also being a great defensive center, and was a plus faceoff man to boot.

Sorry dude, but I have to disagree with you on this one - he was a 2nd liner in his prime as a Senator.

 

[NyQuil]

He was a 4-time 20 goal scorer with us, while also being a great defensive center, and was a plus faceoff man to boot.

Sorry dude, but I have to disagree with you on this one - he was a 2nd liner in his prime as a Senator.

I still think of him as an in-betweener.

 

[Langdon Alger]

He was a 4-time 20 goal scorer with us, while also being a great defensive center, and was a plus faceoff man to boot.

Sorry dude, but I have to disagree with you on this one - he was a 2nd liner in his prime as a Senator.

His production was good, but I still feel he was best suited to be a 3c. I’m not knocking him at all. Schaefer-Fisher-Havlat was our 2nd line in the 2006 playoffs. I think Schaefer and Fisher were better suited on a third line than a second line, that’s all. That line played well in the Tampa series from what I can remember. Havlat was on fire in that series. Ideally you want everyone slotted where they should be. There are times a guy is on your top line, and you’d rather he was on the second line. It doesn’t mean he’s bad or not producing, he’d just be a better fit on the second line.

Fisher was one of the top 3c’s in the league while he was here imo. I don’t think he was one of the best 2c’s.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Why do we have to trade Pageau? I think we just keep him instead. He'll be a great 3rd line centre who can step up when needed and battles in the playoffs. He's not pricey either so I see no reason for him to be traded.

Is it wise to allocate 4.5M to a 3C?

That is what Pageau will cost.

We can probably get a late 1st or two 2nds for him at the 2019 draft. This is assuming he does not take a step forward as our 2C and remains as a 40 point C.

Pageau apparently wanted big money for his UFA years. Looking at players like Bonino, Hanzal, and the rising salart cap, he'll have a case for more than 4M.

Makes more sense to get something for him if we can't pay him.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Fisher was fierce too. Man we had a tough team during those days.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Is it wise to allocate 4.5M to a 3C?

That is what Pageau will cost.

We can probably get a late 1st or two 2nds for him at the 2019 draft. This is assuming he does not take a step forward as our 2C and remains as a 40 point C.

Pageau apparently wanted big money for his UFA years. Looking at players like Bonino, Hanzal, and the rising salart cap, he'll have a case for more than 4M.

Makes more sense to get something for him if we can't pay him.

That's really what it comes down to. And this isn't a "Melynk is cheap" type of issue, either...this is a common sen$e issue. No team in a cap league can afford to overpay for bottom 6/3rd pairing type players. You need those dollars for the top of the roster.

I like Pageau. How he raises his game in the playoffs is fun to watch. But, he is very inconsistent, and I think we'd be over-estimating his capability thinking he can be a permanent 2C. If he is ok with typical 3rd line money, then all the better for us. But like you said, when it hits the $4 mil range....paying that would be a mistake.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

That's really what it comes down to. And this isn't a "Melynk is cheap" type of issue, either...this is a common sen$e issue. No team in a cap league can afford to overpay for bottom 6/3rd pairing type players. You need those dollars for the top of the roster.

I like Pageau. How he raises his game in the playoffs is fun to watch. But, he is very inconsistent, and I think we'd be over-estimating his capability thinking he can be a permanent 2C. If he is ok with typical 3rd line money, then all the better for us. But like you said, when it hits the $4 mil range....paying that would be a mistake.

I'd pay him top 6 money which is more than 4.5M if he cements himself as a 50-60 point C with the opportunity he is getting as our 2C. This is assuming Brown doesn't show signs of progressing towards being a (much cheaper) NHL 2C.

I don't think we can afford to pay Pageau 4.5M to be a 30-40 point 3C matchup guy, even if he is exceptional. We're much better off taking the picks/prospects we could get for him in 2019 and using a much cheaper Colin White in that role for the next 4-5 seasons.

Pageau is one of my favourite Sens but unfortunately being a budget teams can lead to tough choices.