Mike Commodore - " Mike Babcock doesnt have the respect of his players" Amazing Interview with Link

[The Hanging Jowl]

Not a fair argument.
You have to take into account the state of the team and it's decline. Detroit postponed a full rebuild as long as it could.
The cost of a 25 year playoff streak and trading away 1st round picks for help now finally caught up to the team.
The Redwings should have started the rebuild in 2012 when Lidstrom retired. They were forced to start the rebuild when Datsyuk left and we missed the playoffs.

You can't justify the team Babcock started with and the team Blashill inherited and say " I wonder what Zetterberg would say now looking back on how well that change went?"

Its not even close to the same team. No Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Rafalski...

It is a fair argument. If Zetterberg knew the writing was on the wall with Detroit's core and immediate fortunes, his comments were unnecessary and unhelpful. If he truly felt the team would do better because of Babcock's departure, he was wrong. In either case, his comments aren't a good example of Babcock being a bad coach.

Edited to fix hideous grammar.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Sure, ok. Is this just you stating Babcock wanted to leave Detroit? If so I agree, the Wings were in decline and he wanted to jump ship. It doesn't change the statement Zetterberg made about wanting Babcock gone nor does it disqualify that statement in any way. I guess I'm confused as to the point your trying to make because I've never said nor been under the impression Babcock wanted to stay in Detroit.

I'm saying that Babcock leaving Detroit when he did was the perfect storm of events to happen and I think your taking Zetterberg's words the wrong way that he hated Babcock, so he was happy to see him leave.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

It is a fair argument. If Zetterberg knew the writing was on the wall with Detroit's core and immediate fortunes, his comments were unnecessary and unhelpful. If he truly felt the team would due better because of Babcock's, he was wrong. In either case, his comments aren't a good example of Babcock being a bad coach.

When and where did he say or imply that the team would do better with Babcock?
Perhaps the team would be even worse with Babcock still here, seeing as how he lost the room and is not very good with younger guys. His comment shows that Babcock lost the locker room.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

I'm saying that Babcock leaving Detroit when he did was the perfect storm of events to happen and I think your taking Zetterberg's words the wrong way that he hated Babcock, so he was happy to see him leave.

If that is the case why would he imply that the team wanted Babcock gone? Would he not say something more along the lines of "Its tough to lose him as a coach but we understand and have to work hard for the next guy"?
Why, if he liked Babcock, would he say it's time for him to leave?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Provide me with a list of Captains that say the coach needs to leave.

After coaching 10 years? Should be a short list. At the end of the day, he said essentially nothing that in any way supports any of Commodore's rantings.

 

[LeafsNation75]

If that is the case why would he imply that the team wanted Babcock gone? Would he not say something more along the lines of "Its tough to lose him as a coach but we understand and have to work hard for the next guy"?
Why, if he liked Babcock, would he say it's time for him to leave?

Because eventually all players want a new coach after a long period of time. So when Zetterberg said that it wasn't anything earth shattering information.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

If that is the case why would he imply that the team wanted Babcock gone? Would he not say something more along the lines of "Its tough to lose him as a coach but we understand and have to work hard for the next guy"?
Why, if he liked Babcock, would he say it's time for him to leave?

Maybe he figured they needed new methods? Wouldn't be the first time a team performed very differently with different coaching tactics and methods despite relatively similar rosters. It isn't Earth shattering that things grow old. Sometimes you get what you wish for though.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Maybe he figured they needed new methods? Wouldn't be the first time a team performed very differently with different coaching tactics and methods despite relatively similar rosters. It isn't Earth shattering that things grow old.

Look at the success the Leafs had with Pat Quinn and I still remember a lot of fans who wanted him fired a lot of times.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Look at the success the Leafs had with Pat Quinn and I still remember a lot of fans who wanted him fired a lot of times.

Yup. Funny thing is, most arguing in Babcock's favour here also believe he has several shortcomings. What they are arguing though is that most of what is being brought up as "evidence" against him is pretty weak. Want to argue his ice management? Fair game for sure.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

After coaching 10 years? Should be a short list. At the end of the day, he said essentially nothing that in any way supports any of Commodore's rantings.

No just a list, no timeline.
As for Commies rantings, it's cool if you think he's a nut job spouting off garbo. A lot of it is just ranting, but he tells some truths too. What he says with what I've witnessed for 10 years leads me to agree with him. There is in between the lines stuff going on. Perhaps you don't see it that way, and that's cool.

Because eventually all players want a new coach after a long period of time. So when Zetterberg said that it wasn't anything earth shattering information.

Ok man, you win. Babcock is great, his players love him and he's a cool guy to be around. He will lead the Leafs to greatness!

Peace out homies!

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

No just a list, no timeline.
As for Commies rantings, it's cool if you think he's a nut job spouting off garbo. A lot of it is just ranting, but he tells some truths too. What he says with what I've witnessed for 10 years leads me to agree with him. There is in between the lines stuff going on. Perhaps you don't see it that way, and that's cool.



Ok man, you win. Babcock is great, his players love him and he's a cool guy to be around. He will lead the Leafs to greatness!

Peace out homies!

When you reduce yourself to arguing things no one is arguing, it tends to go a long ways in showing the strength of your arguments.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yup. Funny thing is, most arguing in Babcock's favour here also believe he has several shortcomings. What they are arguing though is that most of what is being brought up as "evidence" against him is pretty weak. Want to argue his ice management? Fair game for sure.

Like I said before it's okay when Leafs fans question Babcock on his ice time for Auston Matthews or his other coaching decisions.

It's when someone like Mike Commodore bashes Babcock saying he ruined his career even though he was still horrible after leaving Detroit, however he does not take responsibility for that.

Even when Chris Chelios also says he hated him because Babcock did not play him every night at 46 years old is not a great argument to make.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

When you reduce yourself to arguing things no one is arguing, it tends to go a long ways in showing the strength of your arguments.

I've only argued that Babcock is egotistical, overrated and unliked by players in Detroit.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I've only argued that Babcock is egotistical, overrated and unliked by players in Detroit.

Seems to me you just argued that people are arguing "Babcock is great, his players love him and he's a cool guy to be around. He will lead the Leafs to greatness!".

The only thing they've argued is the relative weakness of the supporting arguments for Commodore's ravings. They certainly haven't argued much about what you are claiming to be arguing (apart from perhaps your third point) but then again you haven't provided much if any argument for the other two points you claim to be arguing.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Seems to me you just argued that people are arguing "Babcock is great, his players love him and he's a cool guy to be around. He will lead the Leafs to greatness!".

The only thing they've argued is the relative weakness of the supporting arguments for Commodore's ravings. They certainly haven't argued much about what you are claiming to be arguing (apart from perhaps your third point) but then again you haven't provided much if any argument for the other two points you claim to be arguing.

If he's ever bothered to read the Leafs boards he will see a lot of Babcock criticism based on his coaching decisions. That's a lot different than taking the opinion of a lunatic like Mike Commodore seriously at face value.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

Seems to me you just argued that people are arguing "Babcock is great, his players love him and he's a cool guy to be around. He will lead the Leafs to greatness!".

The only thing they've argued is the relative weakness of the supporting arguments for Commodore's ravings. They certainly haven't argued much about what you are claiming to be arguing (apart from perhaps your third point) but then again you haven't provided much if any argument for the other two points you claim to be arguing.

I have, they are back on pages 13 or 14 but the conversation switched to players in Detroit. You've seemed to join in late and now assume my first two points are only within the last few pages.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

If he's ever bothered to read the Leafs boards he will see a lot of Babcock criticism based on his coaching decisions. That's a lot different than taking the opinion of a lunatic like Mike Commodore seriously at face value.

Why would I go to your board? I've no interest in the Leafs other than whats going on in this thread. Why would I go to your board dedicated to the Leafs and talk about Babcock?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

When and where did he say or imply that the team would do better with Babcock?
Perhaps the team would be even worse with Babcock still here, seeing as how he lost the room and is not very good with younger guys. His comment shows that Babcock lost the locker room.

It's a fair comment, I'm saying the timing doesn't make sense and Zetterberg sounds petty because of it. In other words, I take his comments with a giant grain of salt.

 

[Blueboy]

This thread needs to die.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

It's a fair comment, I'm saying the timing doesn't make sense and Zetterberg sounds petty because of it. In other words, I take his comments with a giant grain of salt.

Zetterberg is one of the classiest guys around. You don't know him if you think he would make a petty remark. It would be like Lidstrom or Yzerman saying the coach needed to go, it carries weight.

 

[Howie Hodge]

This thread needs to die.

"No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die..."

 

[LeafsNation75]

Zetterberg is one of the classiest guys around. You don't know him if you think he would make a petty remark. It would be like Lidstrom or Yzerman saying the coach needed to go, it carries weight.

Just like Tavares and Marleau who are also very classy, saying Babcock was a reason they signed in Toronto.

 

[jw2]

I'd bench the whiny bitch, too

 

[LeafsNation75]

Why would I go to your board? I've no interest in the Leafs other than whats going on in this thread. Why would I go to your board dedicated to the Leafs and talk about Babcock?

Because you will see Leafs fans giving Babcock criticism due to his coaching decisions, which I will say again is a fair thing to do. There are even some who wanted him fired. However you won't see crazy conspiracy theories from Leafs fans the way Commodore thinks.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I have, they are back on pages 13 or 14 but the conversation switched to players in Detroit. You've seemed to join in late and now assume my first two points are only within the last few pages.

What I have seen of your "arguments" is that they tend to lean in style towards that of Commodore. "Megalomaniac, egotistical, overrated" etc. Perhaps if you laid off the adjectives and focused on the arguments they'd be taken as better examples of what anyone else is arguing?