Melnyk's Townhall

[Sensung]

People are telling Melnyk he should be spending "more important things" such as scouts, building a bigger front office, marketing etc. Mark's wife is saying we should be spending on things that would make the world a better place. You may not like it but it's exactly the same thing.

That said, I also think that Melnyk should be spending more scouts, marketing, the experience etc. The difference is that I choose to do it in a way that doesn't embarrass anyone or try to force someone to do something against their will (...like sell the team...).

I no longer go to games, don't buy merchandise and express my dissatisfaction to Sens staff whenever I can. I treat Melnyk in the same way I treated Sears and Blockbuster. I (along with many others) stopped consuming the services they offer. We all know how that worked out for them.

Sorry, but one is a consumer group letting a business know how they would like them to behave to garner their business and the other is a private individual telling a group they are stupid and misguided.

If you can't see the difference, then I don't know what to say.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Okay, my post seems to have taken on a life of its own, so I'll point out that it was initially meant as nothing more than a reference to an XKCD comic (which I'd link as an image but it contains language that, obviously, gets censored and shouldn't be directly linked.)

I appreciate the sentiment, and she's not wrong – there are plenty of things more worthwhile to bring to national attention. But – and this is another point I feel many detractors of the movement conveniently ignore – this isn't a zero-sum game. I donate to charity quite a bit. I volunteer. I'm not just some troll living in my parent's basement, chuckling to himself while thinking "This will REALLY get Melnyk to spend now!" I'm just a passionate fan of this team who doesn't like the direction it's being taken, and trying to make sure my voice as a fan is heard. Passion beats the hell out of apathy any day.

So, yes, I do get offended when the implication is that I'm not a real fan. I do get offended when the implication is that I'm just trying to get a rise, or that I'm out of line for caring. And I do feel disrespected when it's suggested that I only spend on frivolous things that don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

Moreover, I'd be very willing to bet that a lot of the people suggesting that the money could be used more efficiently – not Tara Borowiecki herself, mind you, but a significant amount of the fans parroting this viewpoint – probably don't put their money where their mouths are.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

People are telling Melnyk he should be spending on "more important things" such as scouts, building a bigger front office, marketing etc. Mark's wife is saying we should be spending on things that would make the world a better place. You may not like it but it's exactly the same thing.

That said, I also think that Melnyk should be spending more on scouts, marketing, the experience etc. The difference is that I choose to do it in a way that doesn't embarrass anyone, shame them or try to force them to do something against their will (...like sell the team...).

I no longer go to games, don't buy merchandise and express my dissatisfaction to Sens staff whenever I can.

I treat Melnyk in the same way I treated Sears and Blockbuster. I (along with many others) stopped consuming the services they offer. We all know how that worked out for them.

You may not like it, but because you feel it’s the same thing, doesn’t make it the same thing.

Let’s just agree to disagree and enjoy the rest of the day!

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

People are telling Melnyk he should be spending on "more important things" such as scouts, building a bigger front office, marketing etc. Mark's wife is saying we should be spending on things that would make the world a better place. You may not like it but it's exactly the same thing.

That said, I also think that Melnyk should be spending more on scouts, marketing, the experience etc. The difference is that I choose to do it in a way that doesn't embarrass anyone, shame them or try to force them to do something against their will (...like sell the team...).

I no longer go to games, don't buy merchandise and express my dissatisfaction to Sens staff whenever I can.

I treat Melnyk in the same way I treated Sears and Blockbuster. I (along with many others) stopped consuming the services they offer. We all know how that worked out for them.

And you're well within your rights to do all of this! I think the argument on the flip side is that this sends a message that you don't care, not that you're unhappy. How did things work out for Seats and Blockbuster? Well, they left. They went out of business. I'd argue that most people involved in this entire backlash don't want that to happen. That's why we're speaking up now, before it's too late. Is it embarrassing for Melnyk? Probably. It should be. He's driving his once-profitable business into the ground and odds are he's too close to the situation to see it. He should be embarrassed at the state of the organization. But the campaign is ultimately about getting the franchise back on track. It doesn't mean he has to sell, necessarily. He just needs to be better or, you're right, his business will end up in the same bin as Sears and Blockbuster.

 

[Dino Tkachuk]

Sorry, but one is a consumer group letting a business know how they would like them to behave to garner their business and the other is a private individual telling a group they are stupid and misguided.

If you can't see the difference, then I don't know what to say.

She never said anyone was stupid. That is your own interpretation.

On your second point, this wasn't a consumer "letting a business know" how they felt about their business. I am fine with that. This was a direct attack on a single individual. There is a BIG difference and it weakens the whole movement and argument. #MelnykOut...

 

[Micklebot]

No, I feel the two are different. We’re asking Melnyk to better manage the business we’re investing into as his customers.

This is a reasonable point. Melnyk is in a client relationship with sens fans; it's a partnership of sorts. Tara has no such relationship with Sens fans, so for fans to tell Melnyk how to spend his money is feedback for him to improve his product, which he can either used towards a mutual cause. . Tara's feedback to sens fans has no direct relationship or partnership to it

She is telling people to spend their extra money on “more important” things. Was she even thinking before she wrote this? She’s addressing people who spend their extra money on hockey tickets to a team in which her husband is part of!!! Her statement is utterly ridiculous. If we follow her “sound” advice, we should stop buying tickets and donate that money to world issues. Her husband could then go look for a job elsewhere.

If you take this line of thought to the extreme, even further than you are, it's arguing that people should always invest resources towards the common good of mankind even if it's not in your own best interest. Not sure you can really criticize her for that.

Having said that, my guess is she views the billboards as trolling the owner, and sees no benefit to anyone here. She probably just sees it as mean-spirited. Now, perhaps she doesn't know the whole story behind it, just that there are billboards with Melnyk out, or perhaps she just thinks the way the message is going out is crude and disrespectful and that's her real concern, not specifically that people are spending their money to get a message across, but rather the way their message is being presented. But the end result is she sees the campaign presenting their message in a pretty disrespectful way, which frankly, it is.



+

 

[Sensung]

She never said anyone was stupid. That is your own interpretation.

On your second point, this wasn't a consumer "letting a business know" how they felt about their business. I am fine with that. This was a direct attack on a single individual. There is a BIG difference and it weakens the whole movement and argument. #MelnykOut...

From the tweet.
The fact that people are paying for billboards about a sports owner is just stupid, and a waste

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

From the tweet.
The fact that people are paying for billboards about a sports owner is just stupid, and a waste

Eh. To play devil's advocate, she calls the fact stupid. Not the people.

 

[Sensung]

She never said anyone was stupid. That is your own interpretation.

On your second point, this wasn't a consumer "letting a business know" how they felt about their business. I am fine with that. This was a direct attack on a single individual. There is a BIG difference and it weakens the whole movement and argument. #MelnykOut...

We have been told ad nauseum by the anti #Melnykout posters that it is his personal toy to do with as he chooses. He has made it clear that he shares this opinion.

The problem with the business is Melnyk's behaviour and choices. He has now made himself directly responsible by naming himself President and CEO.

 

[Sensung]

Eh. To play devil's advocate, she calls the fact stupid. Not the people.

Stupid is as stupid does...

 

[Dino Tkachuk]

From the tweet.
The fact that people are paying for billboards about a sports owner is just stupid, and a waste

I don't feel like she was calling people stupid but thought the billboard idea was stupid. I don't feel that's the same thing but perhaps I'm splitting hairs so I'll move on from this one. Generally I think she should just refrain from posting on Twitter.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

This is a reasonable point. Melnyk is in a client relationship with sens fans; it's a partnership of sorts. Tara has no such relationship with Sens fans, so for fans to tell Melnyk how to spend his money is feedback for him to improve his product, which he can either used towards a mutual cause. . Tara's feedback to sens fans has no direct relationship or partnership to it



If you take this line of thought to the extreme, even further than you are, it's arguing that people should always invest resources towards the common good of mankind even if it's not in your own best interest. Not sure you can really criticize her for that.

Having said that, my guess is she views the billboards as trolling the owner, and sees no benefit to anyone here. She probably just sees it as mean-spirited. Now, perhaps she doesn't know the whole story behind it, just that there are billboards with Melnyk out, or perhaps she just thinks the way the message is going out is crude and disrespectful and that's her real concern, not specifically that people are spending their money to get a message across, but rather the way their message is being presented. But the end result is she sees the campaign presenting their message in a pretty disrespectful way, which frankly, it is.



+

As I replied to another poster, for me, it’s not about the billboards. It’s about a player’s spouse jabbing the people responsible for her husband’s income. Whether she agrees with the actual action (billboards) or not, she lacked judgement in her decision.

That’s where I stand on that.

 

[Sensung]

I don't feel like she was calling people stupid but thought the billboard idea was stupid. I don't feel that's the same thing but perhaps I'm splitting hairs so I'll move on from this one. Generally I think she should just refrain from posting on Twitter.

I agree.

Of if she does post on Twitter, she can expect strong reactions to strong opinions.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

I personally find it insulting, imagine your name on that billboard, it's a personal attack on a person that some in the community (that not all support) want that person out of their community. It's an attempt to publicly ostracize, shame & embarrass a human being & not only is it hurtful IMO it's shameful & a terrible way to show your disapproval. All of this over the direction & operation of a SPORTS team he owns, an entertainment private business. Where is this outrage over homelessness?

Put your name in his place & see how you feel then about being publicly shamed. #"placeyournamehere"OUT. Will this spill into the political arena, will we see #TRUDEAUOUT next, what if your neighbour doesn't like you, what about religion or culture, where does it stop? Who will be the next target? I am not defending EM, I'm against the tactic, it's shameful where our society is headed with personal public attacks. The lack of respect & decorum towards each other seems to be getting worse. I have read several times on here someone call a player garbage, they called a human being garbage. Players are people, they have families & friends that read these things. Regardless of how much they dislike a player no one deserves to be described in this way, it diminishes the worth of all of us & can only lead to more greater divides within our culture & disrespect. Words matter. I hate to think this is the world we live in now but it seems to be, it's a sad state of affairs. We're becoming more like Trump, using social media to fight against & demean anyone who disagrees with us. It's a crowd mentality, tribalism at it's worse.

Would this be before or after I commit accounting fraud and treat my employees like garbage?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

concerning Tara's words... why?.

You can say that about absolutely anything that costs anything.

I mean everyone in the 95% can not spend money in place x, and instead spend it in place y. and vice versa. I would argue that spending money on billboards is a great place to spend it.. excercising our right of free speech.
If she just would have said "the billboards are dumb a waste of money" fine cool, maybe youre right. but suggesting all that money should have been sent somewhere else more important.... eh I take issue.

now, if shes spending every possible cent on making the world a better place and living simply on the bare minimum then okay, damn straight you can talk down to people wasting their money on billboards

 

[Micklebot]

As I replied to another poster, for me, it’s not about the billboards. It’s about a player’s spouse jabbing the people responsible for her husband’s income. Whether she agrees with the actual action (billboards) or not, she lacked judgement in her decision.

That’s where I stand on that.

So because they pay the bills they're immune from criticism? If she were to criticize fans that come to games and start fights in the crowd, would that be off limits because they pay her husbands salary indirectly too? Perhaps she could have made her point with more tact, but the #melnykout campaign as a whole could be accused of the very same.

 

[BonkTastic]

There are so many important issues in the world, our city included...if you have extra money to spend, send it somewhere helpful and important. The fact that people are paying for tickets to watch professional teenagers play a simple game is just stupid, and a waste. #Priorities

... how is my edited version any different than Mrs Boro's tweet?

Considering how the Borowiecki's earn their paycheque, you'd think that she might have the foresight to understand how her opinion applies to "buying hockey tickets" just as much as it does as "buying billboard advertising", and realize that within the context of the framework of her statement ("if you have money to spend, send it somewhere helpful and important"), it sounds hypocritical to support one while condemning the other.

Honestly, her opinion is totally fine in my eyes... assuming that her appeal extends logically past the very narrow side case of paying for a billboard and includes other potential purchases - giving to charity instead of buying billboard time is a very noble endeavor. Unfortunately for her bottom line, giving to charity instead of buying hockey tickets is ALSO a noble endeavor, one I doubt she would want to promote, all things considered.

 

[BonkTastic]

It's just a dumb opinion.

What's a bigger waste of money? The fifteen bucks I donated to the billboard or the easily more than 10 grand I've spent on seasons tickets, parking, concessions throughout my life to watch grown men glide around with razor blades strapped to their feet chasing a rubber disk and punching each other in the face.

It's a perfectly reasonable opinion, in a vacuum. The dumb part is assuming that it only applies to billboard advertising, and not (like you suggest) other parts of life, including things like purchasing hockey tickets.

Honestly, my only problem with the tweet is that unless the Borowiecki's are living frugally in order to donate the majority of their NHL salary to various charities, it comes off as the words of a hypocrite.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

There are so many important issues in the world, our city included...if you have extra money to spend, send it somewhere helpful and important. The fact that people are paying for tickets to watch professional teenagers play a simple game is just stupid, and a waste. #Priorities

... how is my edited version any different than Mrs Boro's tweet?

Considering how the Borowiecki's earn their paycheque, you'd think that she might have the foresight to understand how her opinion applies to "buying hockey tickets" just as much as it does as "buying billboard advertising", and realize that within the context of the framework of her statement ("if you have money to spend, send it somewhere helpful and important"), it sounds hypocritical to support one while condemning the other.

Honestly, her opinion is totally fine in my eyes... assuming that her appeal extends logically past the very narrow side case of paying for a billboard and includes other potential purchases - giving to charity instead of buying billboard time is a very noble endeavor. Unfortunately for her bottom line, giving to charity instead of buying hockey tickets is ALSO a noble endeavor, one I doubt she would want to promote, all things considered.

Thank you! That’s entirely my view on this.

 

[Micklebot]

There are so many important issues in the world, our city included...if you have extra money to spend, send it somewhere helpful and important. The fact that people are paying for tickets to watch professional teenagers play a simple game is just stupid, and a waste. #Priorities

... how is my edited version any different than Mrs Boro's tweet?

Considering how the Borowiecki's earn their paycheque, you'd think that she might have the foresight to understand how her opinion applies to "buying hockey tickets" just as much as it does as "buying billboard advertising", and realize that within the context of the framework of her statement ("if you have money to spend, send it somewhere helpful and important"), it sounds hypocritical to support one while condemning the other.

Honestly, her opinion is totally fine in my eyes... assuming that her appeal extends logically past the very narrow side case of paying for a billboard and includes other potential purchases - giving to charity instead of buying billboard time is a very noble endeavor. Unfortunately for her bottom line, giving to charity instead of buying hockey tickets is ALSO a noble endeavor, one I doubt she would want to promote, all things considered.

At the end of the day, it comes down to whether you feel there is any valuable contribution to society using your resources in such a way. She clearly doesn't see the contribution to society in putting up billboards insulting the owner of a sporting franchise in order to start a conversation about the state of the team. ~400 or so people that contributed to those billboards plus a host of others apparently disagree.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

So because they pay the bills they're immune from criticism? If she were to criticize fans that come to games and start fights in the crowd, would that be off limits because they pay her husbands salary indirectly too? Perhaps she could have made her point with more tact, but the #melnykout campaign as a whole could be accused of the very same.

Your opening question, I didn’t say that, you did.

It’s highly likely that Tara spends her “extra” money on things that she feels are reasonable to spend on. It’s also reasonable to suggest that many others would feel that some of those things are not essential nor important and, therefore a waste of money. It’s all relative. Except in this instance.... well, it’s coming from a professional hockey player’s spouse telling fans to spend money on important things in life. Hockey tickets are not part of important world issues. The irony is uncanny.

I don’t know how I can make this any clearer. I’ve explained my point several times now. So I’m going to leave it at that.

Cheers

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I personally find it insulting, imagine your name on that billboard, it's a personal attack on a person that some in the community (that not all support) want that person out of their community. It's an attempt to publicly ostracize, shame & embarrass a human being & not only is it hurtful IMO it's shameful & a terrible way to show your disapproval. All of this over the direction & operation of a SPORTS team he owns, an entertainment private business. Where is this outrage over homelessness?

Put your name in his place & see how you feel then about being publicly shamed. #"placeyournamehere"OUT. Will this spill into the political arena, will we see #TRUDEAUOUT next, what if your neighbour doesn't like you, what about religion or culture, where does it stop? Who will be the next target? I am not defending EM, I'm against the tactic, it's shameful where our society is headed with personal public attacks. The lack of respect & decorum towards each other seems to be getting worse. I have read several times on here someone call a player garbage, they called a human being garbage. Players are people, they have families & friends that read these things. Regardless of how much they dislike a player no one deserves to be described in this way, it diminishes the worth of all of us & can only lead to more greater divides within our culture & disrespect. Words matter. I hate to think this is the world we live in now but it seems to be, it's a sad state of affairs. We're becoming more like Trump, using social media to fight against & demean anyone who disagrees with us. It's a crowd mentality, tribalism at it's worse.

I think you are taking this too personal.

Melnyk is a public figure. You will always attract supporters and detractors being in the eye of the public. If he wanted to be away from the lime light as much as possible than he should've never spoken to the media about the fans the way he did. It brought no good to him nor the organization. I don't get your neighbor, religion analogy. They all have their own dilemnas and are not related in any way. Maybe they have similarities but there is no relation to each other

Do you actually think most players read these forums? I am pretty certain 'garbage' players are smarter than to log onto an internet forum where all different types of people post to see if they are generally well liked or not.. People need to stop relating what FANS of sporting teams do to other real world matters. Its getting ridiculous.

 

[BonkTastic]

At the end of the day, it comes down to whether you feel there is any valuable contribution to society using your resources in such a way.

Honestly, I don't think there's any valuable discourse to be had in attempting to rank billboard advertising and buying hockey tickets, either as individual concepts or in contrast to each other, within the overall hierarchy of "valuable contributions to society".

Just how I see it, though.

 

[aragorn]

Melnyk's behaviour over his lifetime is reprehensible. He is fully worthy of the public shaming.

A tweet summed it up nicely. I may be paraphrasing, but the gist was as follows:

"Melnyk may be the only person to come back from a near death experience as an even bigger piece of $hit."

How should we view the behaviour of those who call players on here "garbage" or other people (human beings) "a piece of shit"? Is that not also reprehensible behaviour in your opinion & fully worthy of public shaming? No one is perfect & everyone makes mistakes & this owner has made more than his share, unfortunately for him he is a business owner & public figure & every mistake is noted as public record. Unlike us who also make mistakes but are outside the public realm & therefore not publicly humiliated, ostracized or embarrassed. Is this the way we should treat people? Is there not a better way?

Maybe we should bring back the pillory & publicly shame people in the market square & throw vegetables at them while they are locked in place. Do we just continue to sink to lower levels of decorum & behaviour to express our disapproval of anything & everything? If seen as successful this kind of behaviour will just spread & everyone will become a victim of it, including you & me, it already seems prevalent in our society. It's another sad day for humanity.

 

[coladin]

How is this related to the fact that the statement comes from a woman? If she disagrees with the avenue some folks took to take a stand, that’s her perogative. To tell people, - if you have extra money, let me tell you how you shouldn’t spend it. - not sure her common sense kicked in before she pressed the send button.

In my opinion, players and their spouses should refrain from commenting about certain situations. It would be the professional thing to do.

I agree. Julie Turris should also keep her yap shut. These ladies are in a no-win situation as they are perceived to be a certain way because of their husbands, even though they try and carve their own identities. Spoiled, trophy wife, rich, lucky, etc...I would rather they say Go Sens Go and leave it at that.