Melnyk's Townhall

[Tnuoc Alucard]

So the order he stated them in is still the crux of argument? That's quite the assumption. More likly is that the idea of making a bid for the Lebreton development with an NHL arena in it was predicated on his desire to own the team. See, I can make assumptions too, and mines frankly more logical than the order of a list indicating preference!

Either way, last resort was never emplied even if they wanted to buy the team to bolster their bid. In fact, the first article I posted clearly showed a strong desire to purchase the team, ie the prefered option right from the start.

If your assumption is correct, when was the offer made, and how much was it?

 

[Tuna99]

Desmarais does lots of business with the NHL and knows Bettman well. No way he puts the bid together without the NHL knowing or him clearing it with Bettman before hand.

Tells me the NHL would lean towards new ownership in Ottawa. My guess is Melnyck is at the bottom of the NHL list as far as we’ll liked and respected owners

 

[JD1]

So the order he stated them in is still the crux of argument? That's quite the assumption. More likly is that the idea of making a bid for the Lebreton development with an NHL arena in it was predicated on his desire to own the team. See, I can make assumptions too, and mines frankly more logical than the order of a list indicating preference!

Either way, last resort was never emplied even if they wanted to buy the team to bolster their bid. In fact, the first article I posted clearly showed a strong desire to purchase the team, ie the prefered option right from the start.

Micklebot you have a bigger "i need to be right" complex than damn near anyone I've encountered on this board

yesterday in a discussion with Coladin you mentioned "maybe you misunderstood" and he replied he understood you clearly. The implication of your post is that because he disagreed with you it must be because he didn't understand what you said as opposed to simply because he disagreed with you. You've done the same thing to me.

In this little debate that you are having with the Count, I read both of the articles and I've read everything that's ever been written locally about LeBreton (except maybe stuff that is local community rags). You talk about assumptions....here's some breaking news for you....people typically list their preferences in order when citing a list....so those options, presented in that order, it is far more logical to assume preference than to assume that the three options are stated randomly. I'll go further than that though....when people state things in a list, and there is no order to the list, the list is usually presented with the caveat "in no particular order" and given the absence of that statement, i'd say it is far more logical to assume those options were presented in order of preference than not.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Talk less, smile more.

What a bad idea. I think most Sens fans want to hear a lot less from their owner, not more. I can't see this going well and him not putting his foot in his mouth in front of a live audience and off script.

This is problem with not having any adults in the front office anymore. Murray and Leader did their best to keep the mad dog on his leash and now there's no one left.

You are definitely correct but, at the same time, clearly management and ownership have accepted that the current situation is untenable and are trying to do something.

This townhall business won't fix anything but I like to think it's the first step towards things getting better.

 

[coladin]

I like the idea of the live band, but I think they need to get some younger musicians in there and maybe don't exclusively play classic rock covers.

Sadly, they are excellent musicians but don't inspire anyone. Anyone here actually play at that level? Just curious because they are really good. Just too bad they look like a garage band of dads with kids in university.

I loved that military band that military appreciation night and the crowd was into it. In their uniforms rocking it out.

 

[JD1]

Sadly, they are excellent musicians but don't inspire anyone. Anyone here actually play at that level? Just curious because they are really good. Just too bad they look like a garage band of dads with kids in university.

I loved that military band that military appreciation night and the crowd was into it. In their uniforms rocking it out.

hey I play in a garage band of dad's and I have kids in university. .... maybe hey need another guy....that'd be a cool gig

 

[coladin]

hey I play in a garage band of dad's and I have kids in university. .... maybe hey need another guy....that'd be a cool gig

Haha, do you have long hair and maybe a bottle of Grecian's handy?

 

[Micklebot]

If your assumption is correct, when was the offer made, and how much was it?

Ask Poulin, he's the one who said his offer still stood. My only real assumption being Poulin wasn't lying when he stated previous offers existed and still stood and that initial source back in 2016 that was close the DLS group wasn't lying when they said they were really interested in buying the team. I'm rellying on some pretty direct statements while you're trying to tease preference out of the sequence of a list of options.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Ask Poulin, he's the one who said his offer still stood. My only real assumption being Poulin wasn't lying when he stated previous offers existed and still stood and that initial source back in 2016 that was close the DLS group wasn't lying when they said they were really interested in buying the team. I'm rellying on some pretty direct statements while you're trying to tease preference out of the sequence of a list of options.

If you could put yourself in their place, for a moment, and explain why DLS group's interest in buying the Senators was predicated on winning the rights to redevelop Lebreton Flats.

I would suggest that the chance to redevelop the largest piece of prime real estate perhaps in all of Canada was their first priority, for the construction consortium.

There was never any interest (in the Senators) expressed by them, prior to the NCC competition to win the the rights to redevelop Lebetron Flats, can you explain that?

You seem to totally dismiss their list of options, when questioned by the Media, as per their preferences in regards to the Senators, is it because it does not fit your narrative that there is long line of Billionares lined up to buy the Senators, and your inability to come up with a date that they actually made an offer?


Putting together the funding to redevelop Lebreton Flats, is probably no easy task, and IF they had won the rights to redevelop Lebreton flats, they would probably not want to add another 500 Million (assumed approximate cost of the Senators) to their financial burden.......... so perhaps that's why their preferred option was the one they listed first, handover a parcel of land (at Lebreton Flats) and let Melnyk build and operate the Arena......... that option saves them the added cost of building the Arena, and their next preferred option, and more costly to them, was to build an Arena and invite the Senators in as tenants, and if that was not going to fly, their third and most costly option was to build an arena and offer to buy the Senators.


I don't know about you, but I would suggest that seeing how their primary interest is in construction, and not owning and operating an NHL team and arena, the list of options are quite logical if you look at the financial burdens it would put on them, IF they had won the rights to redevelop Lebreton flats.


With the Senators estimated value of being around the 500 million mark, and the cost of constructing an Arena somewhere around the 550 Million mark ( looking at the cost of the Oilers Arena) .......... it would cost the DLS group the better part of a Billion dollars to buy the Senators, and build arena in addition to the costs of the remainder of development costs of Lebreton Flats.


To me this is why their list of options, with the last being buying the Senators, makes sense to most people... except with perhaps you.

 

[Micklebot]

If you could put yourself in their place, for a moment, and explain why DLS group's interest in buying the Senators was predicated on winning the rights to redevelop Lebreton Flats.

I would suggest that the chance to redevelop the largest piece of prime real estate perhaps in all of Canada was their first priority, for the construction consortium.

There was never any interest (in the Senators) expressed by them, prior to the NCC competition to win the the rights to redevelop Lebetron Flats, can you explain that?

You seem to totally dismiss their list of options, when questioned by the Media, as per their preferences in regards to the Senators, is it because it does not fit your narrative that there is long line of Billionares lined up to buy the Senators, and your inability to come up with a date that they actually made an offer?


Putting together the funding to redevelop Lebreton Flats, is probably no easy task, and IF they had won the rights to redevelop Lebreton flats, they would probably not want to add another 500 Million (assumed approximate cost of the Senators) to their financial burden.......... so perhaps that's why their preferred option was the one they listed first, handover a parcel of land (at Lebreton Flats) and let Melnyk build and operate the Arena......... that option saves them the added cost of building the Arena, and their next preferred option, and more costly to them, was to build an Arena and invite the Senators in as tenants, and if that was not going to fly, their third and most costly option was to build an arena and offer to buy the Senators.


I don't know about you, but I would suggest that seeing how their primary interest is in construction, and not owning and operating an NHL team and arena, the list of options are quite logical if you look at the financial burdens it would put on them, IF they had won the rights to redevelop Lebreton flats.


With the Senators estimated value of being around the 500 million mark, and the cost of constructing an Arena somewhere around the 550 Million mark ( looking at the cost of the Oilers Arena) .......... it would cost the DLS group the better part of a Billion dollars to buy the Senators, and build arena in addition to the costs of the remainder of development costs of Lebreton Flats.


To me this is why their list of options, with the last being buying the Senators, makes sense to most people... except with perhaps you.

I dismiss the list because it's conjecture as to whether it indicates preference and it certainly doesn't as you suggested imply that they'd only by the team as a last resort. But, even if you want to look closer at the list for clues, you'll notice the first two are free of conditions; he can be given the land and build his own arena, or he can lease an arena that DLS builds but the third option includes the caveat of "if he changed his mind" as in that option was presented first but already rejected, but they'd go back to it if he's having second thoughts. The Devcore group has more than enough financial pull to successfully develop lebreton withouth Desmarais and Laliberté, but they wouldn't be able to also buy the hockey team, so it stands to reason those two were brought in for a very specific reason.

In your scenario, Desmarais and Laliberté were brought in just in case as a last resort, they needed to buy the team for their development bid instead of because they had a specific desire to own a sports franchise. Doens't make a whole lot of sense to me, and ignores the reports early on in the process from sources close to the DLS group that they really wanted to buy the team.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

In your scenario, Desmarais and Laliberté were brought in just in case as a last resort, they needed to buy the team for their development bid instead of because they had a specific desire to own a sports franchise. Doens't make a whole lot of sense to me, and ignores the reports early on in the process from sources close to the DLS group that they really wanted to buy the team.

How could this be?

The NCC regulations did not allow the two groups bidding on Lebreton to peak publicly about their proposals under the NCC’s confidentiality requirements.

So what are these "reports" from "early on in the process" that you're referring to?

In fact, the first article I posted clearly showed a strong desire to purchase the team, ie the prefered option right from the start.

Still waiting for confirmation on this statement, and to when and who made the alleged offer to Melnyk?

 

[Micklebot]

How could this be?

The NCC regulations did not allow the two groups bidding on Lebreton to peak publicly about their proposals under the NCC’s confidentiality requirements.

So what are these "reports" from "early on in the process" that you're referring to?

I provided a link in my first or second reply to you, if you're not going to read what I post, why do I even bother?

Still waiting for confirmation on this statement, and to when and who made the alleged offer to Melnyk?

Exact date isn't really important here, you're grasping at straws, but again, I provided a link to the qoute from Poulin saying their offers from before were still on the table, meaning they had made them previously. I think we're done here as you're going in circles

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I provided a link in my first or second reply to you, if you're not going to read what I post, why do I even bother?





Exact date isn't really important here, you're grasping at straws, but again, I provided a link to the qoute from Poulin saying their offers from before were still on the table, meaning they had made them previously. I think we're done here as you're going in circles

I cannot click on links that you did not provide.


So how about this, why would the DCLS group tack on an additional Billion Dollars to their Lebreton Flats pitch, if they had better, cheaper and more logical options?

 

[Micklebot]

I cannot click on links that you did not provide.

The perhaps you should click on the ones I did provide, here's a link to my original post, complete with two hyperlinks. I can bring a horse to the water, but I can't force it to drink.

So how about this, why would the DCLS group tack on an additional Billion Dollars to their Lebreton Flats pitch, if they had better, cheaper and more logical options?

You'd have to ask them about their motivations for how they structured their bid, as for whehter they had better cheaper and more logical options, that depends entirely on what their goal was, which we don't know. Making a bid that includes a NHL venue without a tenant locked in seems odd unless there are ulterior motives though. Perhaps they entire proposal was an attempt pressure Melnyk to sell the team.

 

[NorthCoast]

I cannot click on links that you did not provide.


So how about this, why would the DCLS group tack on an additional Billion Dollars to their Lebreton Flats pitch, if they had better, cheaper and more logical options?

If I am investing in a multi-billion dollar development project who's success will be largely dependant on the success of the project centrepiece (multi-use arena), then I want to control the centrepiece.

Think about it. You are going to major retail chains and pitching them on placing stores in your shiny new commercial district, which has a steady flow of customers coming in 40+ nights a year for hockey alone.

Do you really want to face the question: "What if Melnyk moves the team?".

The sens are profitable when not straddled with debt, and that's in kanata. If the option to buy the team was available they would find the money easily and it would be bought in a heartbeat.

 

[Sensung]

If I am investing in a multi-billion dollar development project who's success will be largely dependant on the success of the project centrepiece (multi-use arena), then I want to control the centrepiece.

Think about it. You are going to major retail chains and pitching them on placing stores in your shiny new commercial district, which has a steady flow of customers coming in 40+ nights a year for hockey alone.

Do you really want to face the question: "What if Melnyk moves the team?".

The sens are profitable when not straddled with debt, and that's in kanata. If the option to buy the team was available they would find the money easily and it would be bought in a heartbeat.

How dare you try and insert logic into Count's world?

Please post links proving you are not a bot designed as a super troll killer!

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

If I am investing in a multi-billion dollar development project who's success will be largely dependant on the success of the project centrepiece (multi-use arena), then I want to control the centrepiece.

Think about it. You are going to major retail chains and pitching them on placing stores in your shiny new commercial district, which has a steady flow of customers coming in 40+ nights a year for hockey alone.

Do you really want to face the question: "What if Melnyk moves the team?".

The sens are profitable when not straddled with debt, and that's in kanata. If the option to buy the team was available they would find the money easily and it would be bought in a heartbeat.

Well if the DCDLS Devcore Group bid was "largely dependent" on the Arena, and controlling it, why did they not Buy the Senators prior to putting in their Bid?


Well if the DCDLS Devcore Group bid bid was "largely dependent" on the Arena, and controlling it, why, when asked, was their first reply was to offer Melnyk the land (for free) to build and operate an Arena?

Well if the DCDLS Devcore Group bid was "largely dependent" on the Arena, and controlling it, why, when asked, their second option was to build and operate the Arena and invite the Senators in as tenants?


It is really apparent that the DCDLS Devcore Group bid was mainly interested in redeveloping Lebreton Flats, and owning the Senators, and Building and operating an Arena for them to play in was nowhere near the top of their list of priorities.

Jean-Pierre Poulin, the president of Gatineau-based land development company Devcore clearly listed his group's options (for getting the Senators to play in Lebreton Flats) on January the 12th this year, prior to Eugene Melnk's group being awarded the rights to redevelop Lebreton Flats less than two weeks later.



Poulin on Friday repeated the offers DCDLS made then: to simply hand land at LeBreton over to Melnyk and the team to build a new arena on their own; to build an arena and invite the Senators in as tenants; to buy the team if Melnyk changes his mind.

Reevely: Second-place bidder still keen on LeBreton Flats if Sens' bid falters, but patience is waning

 

[NorthCoast]

Yeah, I disagree with all that.



City, residents, team, etc all want the arena at Lebreton so it would have been hard to submit a bid without factoring it in.

If you are going to have an arena as a central piece then you want to make sure it's controlled so that the foundation to the redevelopment is stable.

Do they need to own the team? no, they just want it to be locked in.

If they offer the land and Melnyk takes the offer, great. Because nobody is footing the bill for a new staduim and then leaving town in the near future (least of all Melnyk). Of course, Melnyk would never agree to this because he wants a piece of the spoils that the arena will bring in from the surrounding businesses/land value. Plus, he probably couldn't get financing for the stadium alone. So that was really a false offer, but hey, maybe Melnyk is stupid enough to take it so why not throw it out their.

If they lease it to Melnyk they also achieve control, because they can offer a 10-20 year lease that ensures it's cost prohibitive for him to move the team regardless of team performance. (see Florida) Again, this is a false offer because Melnyk would never make any money if he didn't own the stadium and the concert revenues, parking, etc.

The only real offer is to buy the team.


So maybe buying is the third option, but the other two were false offers in my view and so really it's the only option they had.

That's like the league saying that their preferred option was to attend the Olympics when they offered it to the players in exchange for a 3 yr extension on the CBA. Is it really their preferred option if it is attached to an offer nobody will ever accept.

 

[Qward]

With the Senators estimated value of being around the 500 million mark, and the cost of constructing an Arena somewhere around the 550 Million mark ( looking at the cost of the Oilers Arena) .......... it would cost the DLS group the better part of a Billion dollars to buy the Senators, and build arena in addition to the costs of the remainder of development costs of Lebreton Flats.

That is not how business works.
Also, you cannot use the Vegas expansion fee as a basis for valuation. Carolina sold for $420M, not $500M.

 

[BatherSeason]

I really enjoy reading National stories that cover the incompetence of our owner, when guys like COUNT DRACULA and MySens think the Melnyk hate is only a HFBoards thing:

Fan revolt festers in Ottawa as Senators owner Eugene Melnyk’s missteps grow too numerous to bear

 

[Countdown0]

I really enjoy reading National stories that cover the incompetence of our owner, when guys like COUNT DRACULA and MySens think the Melnyk hate is only a HFBoards thing:

Fan revolt festers in Ottawa as Senators owner Eugene Melnyk’s missteps grow too numerous to bear

Reading that was simultaneously hilarious and disheartening. I laugh because the idea of Melnyk poking fans in the eyes on their way into the building is kind of funny. But then I actually think about the state of the team, and its just depressing.

 

[coladin]

I really enjoy reading National stories that cover the incompetence of our owner, when guys like COUNT DRACULA and MySens think the Melnyk hate is only a HFBoards thing:

Fan revolt festers in Ottawa as Senators owner Eugene Melnyk’s missteps grow too numerous to bear

You enjoy reading it because you like it. Typically, everyone here hates when Ottawa is embarrassed nationally because people outside Ottawa "dont know the real situation".

Not today Chezz, enjoy!

By the way, nothing earth shattering and rehashing of old news. Yawn. Yes, he is a meanie, increased parking. The horror.

Town halls are a good idea for people who are fans of the team. The militants can stay home as they do typically anyways.

Come to think of it, attendance nose dived the moment Sens fans heard how much the TV contract is worth and feel that their presence is no longer required.

 

[The Lewler]

You enjoy reading it because you like it. Typically, everyone here hates when Ottawa is embarrassed nationally because people outside Ottawa "dont know the real situation".

Not today Chezz, enjoy!

By the way, nothing earth shattering and rehashing of old news. Yawn. Yes, he is a meanie, increased parking. The horror.

Town halls are a good idea for people who are fans of the team. The militants can stay home as they do typically anyways.

Come to think of it, attendance nose dived the moment Sens fans heard how much the TV contract is worth and feel that their presence is no longer required.

This isn't a criticism of you but it's kind of funny in context of our now long running debates. By so many fans staying at home and watching on TV.. is that increasing the TV contract value? lol

 

[coladin]

This isn't a criticism of you but it's kind of funny in context of our now long running debates. By so many fans staying at home and watching on TV.. is that increasing the TV contract value? lol

Who knows. All i know is this fan base was guilted into buying tickets after being ridiculed nationwide. If there was no hysteria about it chances are Game 2 if the Rangers series would have been around 17K

 

[JungleBeat]