Matthews/Marner vs Toews/Kane

[FerrisRox]

That's roughly what Babcock said after that game.

Nonsense.

Babcock did not say nor imply that Marner was "easily" better than Matthews in that game. That is pure fiction.

Surely you are aware that there is a world of difference between suggesting Marner had a better game than Matthews and claiming he was "easily better" than Matthews in that game.

One is arguable, the other is laughable.

 

[Menzinger]

Looking forward to it - though I hope the Hawks don't plan on having Kane out for another 29 minute game.

Hell be worn down half way through the season if this keeps up

 

[Butch 19]

Anyone else pumped for this? Hockey night, original 6 matchup, and we get to see the battle between two dynamic duos. The young and upcoming superstars vs the veteran 3 time cup winners. Lets drop the puck.

How does this figure in anyone's enjoyment of a game? So a couple of teams have been around for a few more decades than other teams.....??

Another 50 or 100 years from now, will this still matter?

 

[Hackett]

How does this figure in anyone's enjoyment of a game? So a couple of teams have been around for a few more decades than other teams.....??

Another 50 or 100 years from now, will this still matter?

The original 6 teams are like the nhl's preserved heritage sites. They may not enhance my excitement for a game, unless it's a rivalry game like Montreal/Boston, but they just have a unique feeling to them.

 

[Divine]

How does this figure in anyone's enjoyment of a game? So a couple of teams have been around for a few more decades than other teams.....??

Another 50 or 100 years from now, will this still matter?

History creates rivalries. The longer two teams exist and play each other, the greater the rivalry.

 

[Subbanned]

I find it a totally foreign feeling to think about a game involving the Leafs as a fan of a third party team and actually think "this will be an exciting game" but times are changing. Will be a fast and goal-heavy one against the Blackhawks I think. My favourite may be mini-Nylander. Very slick...still a little slick for his own good but that'll sort it outself out. Would love to see him with Radulov instead of Pleks.

 

[Atomos2]

Nonsense.

Babcock did not say nor imply that Marner was "easily" better than Matthews in that game. That is pure fiction.

Surely you are aware that there is a world of difference between suggesting Marner had a better game than Matthews and claiming he was "easily better" than Matthews in that game.

One is arguable, the other is laughable.

Babcock said he thought Marner was the best player on the ice in the first two periods of Matthews' four goal game.

The fact that it was the leafs own coach that thought Marner looked like the best player on the ice, it certainly gives reasonable grounds for some to assume Marner was easily the better player in that game. I'm of that assumption too. Marner created more scoring chances, Matthews was just able to convert on the ones he created.

 

[Pyrophorus]

The Hawks are perfectly capable of beating anyone on even strength. I don't think you realize how bad our PK is. IF the Hawks had even a below average PK unit, they might be undefeated. This isn't some fluke goals they are letting up. The Hawks look silly on the penalty kill.

If the Leafs even had average goaltending, they would be too.

Dive Kadri, dive.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Toews/Kane have won 3 cups. Matthews/Marner have won nothing.

Individual and team awards.

You should say the NHL.

 

[ruhroh*]

Anyone else pumped for this? Hockey night, original 6 matchup, and we get to see the battle between two dynamic duos. The young and upcoming superstars vs the veteran 3 time cup winners. Lets drop the puck.

Matthews>Toews
Marner<<<Kane

Not close, shut it down.

 

[kk87]

Matthews>Toews
Marner<<<Kane

Not close, shut it down.

At this point Kane is definitively better than Marner, no doubt about that. But to dismiss Marner in this way suggests that you've never seen him play and don't understand what he's capable of.

 

[ruhroh*]

At this point Kane is definitively better than Marner, no doubt about that. But to dismiss Marner in this way suggests that you've never seen him play and don't understand what he's capable of.

I've seen him in WJC's and the NHL. He is not going to be Patrick Kane.
Not many will.

 

[Purity*]

I've seen him in WJC's and the NHL. He is not going to be Patrick Kane.
Not many will.

It's pretty foolish to declare absolutes when you're talking about a prospect of Marner's caliber. He could be better than Patrick Kane for all we know at this point.

 

[ruhroh*]

It's pretty foolish to declare absolutes when you're talking about a prospect of Marner's caliber. He could be better than Patrick Kane for all we know at this point.

I'm going to go on a record saying Marner will never EVER be better than Kane IMHO ofcourse.
How does that make you feel?

 

[Pyrophorus]

I'm going to go on a record saying Marner will never EVER be better than Kane IMHO ofcourse.
How does that make you feel?

I agree he won't be, EVER.
He is Mitchell Marner.

 

[fiveonfive]

They both need each other to make the Blackhawks tick. Their skillsets complement the team very well and it produces Cups. Kane has his deficiencies as well as Toews. Toews has to produce more tangibly, but his game hasn't dropped off as everyone says it has. Yes, last year was bad ... but he's much better this year. He'll be fine.

No one is perfect except Erik Karlsson.

It's good you agree that more then one exceptional player needs to do their job for a team to tick. I agree. But, it's definitely a stretch to say that Toews only plays vs top lines, while Kane has it easy because he plays against bottom sixers all game. There are two coaches matching lines in a game not just one - which is all I was saying.

But yeah Erik Karlsson is pretty good. Glad you agree Not sure how that's relevant though?

 

[The Beyonder]

I'm going to go on a record saying Marner will never EVER be better than Kane IMHO ofcourse.
How does that make you feel?

And I'm going on record saying that he very well might be better than Kane.
How does that make you feel?

I'll say that I have a 0% chance of being wrong.

Such a ridiculous and baiting post. I agree that Marner probably won't be as good, but we're talking about Patrick Kane here not Wayne Gretzky. It's possible, and Marner is a very good player with high upside that it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

 

[ruhroh*]

And I'm going on record saying that he very well might be better than Kane.
How does that make you feel?

I'll say that I have a 0% chance of being wrong.

Such a ridiculous and baiting post. I agree that Marner probably won't be as good, but we're talking about Patrick Kane here not Wayne Gretzky. It's possible, and Marner is a very good player with high upside that it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

I'm going to need some of that stuff you're smoking.

 

[piteus]

It's good you agree that more then one exceptional player needs to do their job for a team to tick. I agree. But, it's definitely a stretch to say that Toews only plays vs top lines, while Kane has it easy because he plays against bottom sixers all game. There are two coaches matching lines in a game not just one - which is all I was saying.

But yeah Erik Karlsson is pretty good. Glad you agree Not sure how that's relevant though?

I love pointing out the irrationality of fans. But by definition, that's what they are: fans = short for "fanatics"

To people anointing McJesus as the next savior after 30 games ... the "next Gretzky" or better than Crosby ALREADY. To the Cult of Karlsson implying HE is better than Orr and Coffey. Or the Anti McJesus scoring 50+ goals this year. And now, Marner will be just as good as Patrick Kane OR that Matthews is ALREADY better than Toews. I'm not saying it won't happen ... but I'm saying fans are pretty stupid. No, fans are stupid. But that's to be expected when emotion is only used.

Toews is fine. If you want to argue if he's worth $10.5 million a year ... that's another story. But he's still one of the best players in the NHL. That's not up for debate. He's never been a stat stuffer until when it matters (like the playoffs). He's not Erik Karlsson. And no, I'm not saying Karlsson is bad. He's an elite offensive defensemen.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Nonsense.

Babcock did not say nor imply that Marner was "easily" better than Matthews in that game. That is pure fiction.

Surely you are aware that there is a world of difference between suggesting Marner had a better game than Matthews and claiming he was "easily better" than Matthews in that game.

One is arguable, the other is laughable.

Except he was not "arguably" better. It was pretty evident.

But sure, let's grasp at straws

 

[G0AT]

Matthews<<<Toews
Marner<<<Kane

Not close, shut it down.

Fixed it for ya. Let's pump the breaks a little. Marner and Matthews have played a combined 8 games.
Just sit back and enjoy the show.

 

[fiveonfive]

I love pointing out the irrationality of fans. But by definition, that's what they are: fans = short for "fanatics"

To people anointing McJesus as the next savior after 30 games ... the "next Gretzky" or better than Crosby ALREADY. To the Cult of Karlsson implying HE is better than Orr and Coffey. Or the Anti McJesus scoring 50+ goals this year. And now, Marner will be just as good as Patrick Kane OR that Matthews is ALREADY better than Toews. I'm not saying it won't happen ... but I'm saying fans are pretty stupid. No, fans are stupid. But that's to be expected when emotion is only used.

Toews is fine. If you want to argue if he's worth $10.5 million a year ... that's another story. But he's still one of the best players in the NHL. That's not up for debate. He's never been a stat stuffer until when it matters (like the playoffs). He's not Erik Karlsson. And no, I'm not saying Karlsson is bad. He's an elite offensive defensemen.

I do to. That's why I made a post challenging the fact that one player plays a materially higher QoC time then the other.

Fans are allowed to enjoy and discuss the game how ever they want. McDavid is a special talent that is displaying things that only a handful of players ever had displayed at such an early stage of their career. Karlsson has achieved things that only Orr and Coffey previously have, but I have never seen anyone say that he is already better then those players. I enjoy your hyperbole on these things, but is it really that surprising that people are discussing patterns of events they have noticed about their favorite players? It's only entertainment after all.

Toews is great player. So is Patrick Kane. Putting up ridiculous numbers on the stat sheet is not easy for anyone, that's why there is so few players that stand out like that, no matter how much people want to dispute that.

 

[The Beyonder]

I'm going to need some of that stuff you're smoking.

I acknowledge the possibility that a young talented player MIGHT one day be better, while you deal in absolutes, and I'm smoking something?

This is a young talented player we're talking about, with elite skill-sets. He might be a great player in the NHL, who knows how far he could reach.

 

[uncleben]

Can't stop thinking about it. Don't forget about Reilly/Keith and Andersen/Huet.

Cristobal Huet!?

 

[authentic]

Matthews>Toews
Marner<<<Kane

Not close, shut it down.

I doubt that right now. Let's wait a while before we say that. I certainly wouldn't expect him to outplay Toews head to head tonight, regardless of supporting casts.