Value of: Matthew Tkachuk

[Sparky93]

Yeah, I’m a Flames fan trolling Flames fans? If that makes sense in your mind because you’ve put Chuckey on a pedestal the last few years like most other fans, go ahead and believe it. Lol

Well he just turned 23 and was the Flames scoring leader last year. He's also the 9th highest scoring LW, in the entire league, since entering the NHL, including his rookie season. Did he accomplish this playing with one of the best players in the world? No, he did it playing with Backlund and Mangiapane. He's earned every bit of that pedestal.

 

[User1996]

Well he just turned 23 and was the Flames scoring leader last year. He's also the 9th highest scoring LW, in the entire league, since entering the NHL, including his rookie season. Did he accomplish this playing with one of the best players in the world? No, he did it playing with Backlund and Mangiapane. He's earned every bit of that pedestal.

Backlund elevates people’s games like no other. He’s making Lucic look like an actual top 9 player right now. Not saying that’s as good as playing with one of the best players in the world, but if people seriously think Tkachuk could drive this offence with the kind of matchups Johnny gets is insane.

 

[StumpyTown]

Maybe if they think Giordano is about to fall off a cliff they could trade him for a young top pairing defenseman or if a team is willing to give an elite centre for him, but otherwise he wouldn't be moved.

I've only watched 7 of the Flames games this season so far and I'd say the bolded part has already happened. He can still skate but his physicality has taken a huge dive along with his reaction times. He can still process the speed of the game in his head but it looks like he's not able to translate that to his feet anymore. Very much like Wheeler's game in Winnipeg I think his skills are going to degrade really quickly now.

 

[CraigsList]

I've only watched 7 of the Flames games this season so far and I'd say the bolded part has already happened. He can still skate but his physicality has taken a huge dive along with his reaction times. He can still process the speed of the game in his head but it looks like he's not able to translate that to his feet anymore. Very much like Wheeler's game in Winnipeg I think his skills are going to degrade really quickly now.

Accurate statement. Seattle would be dumb to pick him in the ED, assuming we expose him.

 

[Sparky93]

Backlund elevates people’s games like no other. He’s making Lucic look like an actual top 9 player right now. Not saying that’s as good as playing with one of the best players in the world, but if people seriously think Tkachuk could drive this offence with the kind of matchups Johnny gets is insane.

While I'll admit that Backlund has a calming effect, its pretty clear that Mangi is the one driving that line, including Backlund. Tkachuk arguably had tougher match ups and out produced Johnny last year.

 

[ICanMotteBelieveIt]

Can we trade you Backlund + 1st + 1-2 B level prospects for Laf?

Sure.

He's apparently a bust so I dunno why you'd do that.

Also I said as starters, where's your +'s?

 

[CatchyTune]

I wouldn't trade Chucky alone for them...

you wouldnt trade a 1st line winger for another 1st line winger and a 1st pairing defenceman?

 

[User1996]

While I'll admit that Backlund has a calming effect, its pretty clear that Mangi is the one driving that line, including Backlund. Tkachuk arguably had tougher match ups and out produced Johnny last year.

Tkachuk has tougher defensive assignments, sure. But Gaudreau has always drawn shutdown pairings when line matching is going on.

I really just don’t see Tkachuk being your best offensive player as a recipe for success

 

[Sparky93]

Tkachuk has tougher defensive assignments, sure. But Gaudreau has always drawn shutdown pairings when line matching is going on.

I really just don’t see Tkachuk being your best offensive player as a recipe for success

One player doesn't win you a cup, even McDavid can't do it. If this group can't win with Tkachuk, its very unlikely that the return would make it any more likely. If anything you do a heavy retool/rebuild and hold onto your 23 year old star, who will still be well with in his prime by the time you're ready to complete

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Chucky twill be fine. Trading him would be crazy.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Let's be glad NHL GMs aren't as short-sighted as HF.

 

[User1996]

Let's be glad NHL GMs aren't as short-sighted as HF.

Love that it’s coming across short sided when the whole premise is built around the future. Interesting take though

 

[User1996]

One player doesn't win you a cup, even McDavid can't do it. If this group can't win with Tkachuk, its very unlikely that the return would make it any more likely. If anything you do a heavy retool/rebuild and hold onto your 23 year old star, who will still be well with in his prime by the time you're ready to complete

This is the crux of the argument though. Obviously one player doesn’t win a cup. But he’s a complimentary player and posters act like he isn’t. I’m all for Tkachuk being a Flame for a long time, but you have to find a way to get a piece that is a legitimate driver, and he’s probably one of the piece we could use to do so.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

While I'll admit that Backlund has a calming effect, its pretty clear that Mangi is the one driving that line, including Backlund. Tkachuk arguably had tougher match ups and out produced Johnny last year.

You really think teams are game planning around how to shut down Matthew Tkachuk?

Gaudreau is the significantly better and more dangerous offensive player. That's not even debatable.

 

[Sparky93]

Love that it’s coming across short sided when the whole premise is built around the future. Interesting take though

I mean you do realize that Mark Stone and Brad Marchand were playing their 1st full seasons in the NHL, at the same age as Tkachuk. The biggest knock on Stone was his skating ability. The point is, I see Tkachuk as being a combination of the two of them and trading him now could be the worst mistake in franchise history.

 

[Sparky93]

This is the crux of the argument though. Obviously one player doesn’t win a cup. But he’s a complimentary player and posters act like he isn’t. I’m all for Tkachuk being a Flame for a long time, but you have to find a way to get a piece that is a legitimate driver, and he’s probably one of the piece we could use to do so.

You get those players via the draft. You cut out the soft underbelly of a team, that has continually failed to measure up and load up with picks/prospects. We suffer through a few bad years of high draft picks, hopefully landing the kind of player you're talking about.

 

[BCNate]

Couple of potential waiver wire material for Tkachuk sounds about right.

Not trying to turn this into a Juolevi thread, but is you think he is waiver material, you aren’t paying attention. Kid has been solid this year.

certainly not getting Tkachuk for him though.

 

[User1996]

I mean you do realize that Mark Stone and Brad Marchand were playing their 1st full seasons in the NHL, at the same age as Tkachuk. The biggest knock on Stone was his skating ability. The point is, I see Tkachuk as being a combination of the two of them and trading him now could be the worst mistake in franchise history.

I mean, to each their own, but the similarities begin and end with being a pest in Marchand’s case and being a horrible skater in Stone’s case.

But again, that doesn’t explain how it’s short sighted. Short sighted would mean that it’s a knee jerk reaction based on his recent play - it’s not. I don’t believe Tkachuk has the skills necessary to be anything more than a player that dominates behind the oppositions net and that is why I brought it up.

Agree or not, but that doesn’t mean it’s short sighted

 

[User1996]

You get those players via the draft. You cut out the soft underbelly of a team, that has continually failed to measure up and load up with picks/prospects. We suffer through a few bad years of high draft picks, hopefully landing the kind of player you're talking about.

You can get those players by acquiring prospects, picks, or just hitting on a player that your scouting staff believes in from another team. Saying you can only do that through the draft is simply untrue.

Did the Canadiens draft Suzuki? Did the Jets draft PLD? Did the Stars draft Seguin? Do you want me to continue?

 

[Mattavarner]

Id offer Nylander + Liljegren + 1st or something like that, hes exactly what we need

 

[Tkachuky]

I'd kill to have him on the Rangers.

Kreider + 1 st + 1-2 B level prospects as starter? Probably not enough.

Although our first would be a real good pick.

A man can dream...

Kreider as the main piece? Yeah doesn’t sound like you’d kill to get him....

 

[McJedi]

I don’t understand how this would be knee-jerk? Tkachuk’s offensive game consists of:
- Reverse hits to get separation
- Between the legs attempts from the post
- Usual domination behind the other teams net
- Good hand eye for deflecting pucks
- Generally poor play on the DZ half wall
- A long, sweeping wrist shot that takes so long to get off its easily deflected out of play and not a threat
- Not enough speed to be effective in transition

Tkachuk is a fantastic complimentary player, but, under the premise that Gaudreau is moved if the Flames miss the playoffs this year, that means you expect Tkachuk to likely be the driver of your offence, which is foolish. Why not see what you can get for him?

Unless you have a late 1st that turns into a play driving offensive piece, building around Tkachuk, Lindholm, Dube, etc., is just begging to be mediocre for 10 more years

And you think trading your future captain makes you better? What if you miss on the draft picks like sam Bennett? What if the prospect you get stalls?

Yours is the classic post of grass is always greener.

 

[Perennial]

To Calgary: White, Dadonov, 2021 1st (top 3 protected)

To Ottawa: Tkachuk, Lucic

 

[User1996]

And you think trading your future captain makes you better? What if you miss on the draft picks like sam Bennett? What if the prospect you get stalls?

Yours is the classic post of grass is always greener.

No, it’s rooted in reality that while Tkachuk is a fantastic complimentary player, he doesn’t have the skills to be the guy in an offence.

And while he may not be that, he could have the value necessary to add that somehow (picks, prospects, hitting on a hockey trade) and for that reason it’s worth exploring.

This isn’t trading Tkachuk for fun, it’s exploring if there is an option that genuinely puts the team in a better place, that’s not short sighted - in fact, it’s the opposite if you’d be willing to wait for the return to develop or whatever. And it certainly isn’t “grass is always greener”. If that’s your impression of my posts in this thread, I don’t know what to tell you - I’ve literally said “I would like Tkachuk to be a Flame”.

P.S. as an aside it’s hilarious to me when fans pretend to know who is captain material or not. 90% of the information needed to make that decision is kept behind doors

 

[User1996]

To Calgary: White, Dadonov, 2021 1st (top 3 protected)

To Ottawa: Tkachuk, Lucic

The goal would be to maximize the value in return to try and get a cornerstone to build around, not dump Lucic in the process. But thank you for actually contributing to the conversation, unlike people who think posting “no way he will be moved” is valuable in any way